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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
I've recently been thinking about trying out a Blaster as this is the only AT I have never played much. However, I keep seeing people talk about Blasters as having severe issues soloing beginning around level 30. Apparently this is due to mob hit point scaling and blaster damage just not keeping pace.
Is this really the case? Does the Blaster AT literally become mediocre damage and low survivability? That just....doesn't make sense. And if that really does happen, maybe someone needs to smack Castle in the back of the head until he fixes it.  So how about it folks? Are people over-exaggerating the situation? (In case it matters, I would prefer to play an Energy blaster for concept purposes.) |
Well, a Corruptor/Defender with secondaries that don't benefit them much (ex. Thermal, Empathy) will have a harder time soloing. I know I absolutely hate soloing with my AR/Thermal Corr (it's like the worst combo ever for soloer).
I think Blaster's damage is fine. You just have to take those control powers and make sure you carry some breakfrees because if a boss mezzes you, you may die before he does.
I think "mediocre" damage probably means that Blaster doesn't have the survivability to back up his damage. Just like Ninja Mastermind. They deal a lot of damage but when the pets die (which they do often being melee and having no resistance), they deal less damage over time. Maybe this is where "mediocre" damage came from. A Blaster with a lot of set bonuses may prove otherwise but by the time you've got enough set bonuses, you are probably well into your 45+ or even 50.
I normally don't like to solo with my Blaster. I did have a lvl 50 Sonic/Ice.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I meant to ask this. How come Blaster's Blaze damage is so much higher damage than Corruptor's? I looked at the math but I can't seem to add up to 188.9 damage unenhanced at lvl 50 with 25% higher base damage modifier.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Fire/Electric Blaster DPA @50, unenhanced. Flares: 63 Fire Blast: 51 (Ouch!) Fire Ball: 75 (16 target max) Fire Breath: 41 (10 target max) Blaze: 170 (  )Charged Brawl: 131 Havoc Punch: 96 Shocking Grasp: 100 |
Corruptor's Blaze in mids shows 126. That's 88.4 + (7.51 x 5) = 126. 25% increase is only like 110.5 + (9.39 x 5) = 157.45?
I didn't know Blaster's "base" damage in blast set is higher? Am I missing something here? I know Blaster's damage scale is 1.0 and Corruptor is 0.75?
Another interesting thing is Dominator's Blaze 168 damage with recharge at 12s is still less than Blaster's Blaze with 10s recharge? Doesn't Dominator have 0.95 range modifier?
PS: Blaster's Blaze damage is crazy high... lol
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Corruptor's ranged damage mod is .75; a Blaster's is 1.125. That's a 50% increase.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I meant to ask this. How come Blaster's Blaze damage is so much higher damage than Corruptor's? I looked at the math but I can't seem to add up to 188.9 damage unenhanced at lvl 50 with 25% higher base damage modifier.
Corruptor's Blaze in mids shows 126. That's 88.4 + (7.51 x 5) = 126. 25% increase is only like 110.5 + (9.39 x 5) = 157.45? I didn't know Blaster's "base" damage in blast set is higher? Am I missing something here? I know Blaster's damage scale is 1.0 and Corruptor is 0.75? Another interesting thing is Dominator's Blaze 168 damage with recharge at 12s is still less than Blaster's Blaze with 10s recharge? Doesn't Dominator have 0.95 range modifier? PS: Blaster's Blaze damage is crazy high... lol |
126*1.5=189
As I said, anyone who thinks a Corruptor is out-damaging a Blaster is hallucinating.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I like blasters. I don't care if people say they're 'teh suckzzorrs.' My main is an archery/ice blaster, purpled as much as I can get her purpled. Rain of Arrows is up every 16 seconds, unless I have a kin or a rad on the team or Secondary Mutation gives me another ridiculous 30% recharge boost. I barely need stamina at all, and when the new changes make Fitness inherent, I'll get Assault and boost my already sweet damage at least 12% more. The teams I run on love to have her, because she's a consistent source of pretty large orange numbers.
I occasionally faceplant, usually because I'm not paying attention. It IS 'active' defanse, and for people used to tanks, scrappers, and widows, this may not be a good fit. I'm glad I learned the game on a blaster. If this sounds like fun to you, then I suggest Archery, and I think Mental Manipulation might fit as well - I have another L50 Arch/MM, and she's pretty dang sweet as well.
PS: to darkmaster: On a team I'm on, I would prefer nearly ANY defender that ISN'T "Empathy" to an Emp. ESPECIALLY Rad, because Rad is 'the sugar that makes the medicine go down.' 
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
Also, THIS. VERY NICE, Airhammer.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
This is the problem with the blaster AT as I see it.
Many people start playing the game as a scrapper or a tank or some other melee toon. The login the character screen and see an AT that has good hit points and high damage and has good resists and they play that. Then after a while of playing those they start playing blasters. And they feel pretty good.. right up until you hit the late 20's and early 30's where mez starts showing up.. Then they are totally shocked by how many foes mez because they NEVER noticed it before..
Now their blaster sucks and they cant handle the late game blah blah blah..
Ive played almost everything in this game and I can tell you this. Blasters are the AT I always tell NEW players to play.. I believe it teaches you HOW to play the game.
You learn very quickly what foes do what and how. Who stuns. who holds, who drains end etc etc
You learn positioning. How to break line of sight. How to use distance and cover and hover to YOUR advantage.
You learn how to manage your OWN aggro instead of relying on others to do it for you.
You learn TIMING which is crucial.. When to attack.. WHO to attack.. When to go ALL OUT and when to be the surgeon and remove specific foes from the battelfield quickly.
Im not going to get into all the data because I really dont bother with working up attack chains and focusing on DPS.. Sure I am somewhat aware of it.. but its not my focus.. The question I have is can I do my JOB as a blaster which is to deeat foes quickly and I cna assure you after playing numerous blasters as well as almost every other AT in the game to 50 that blaster do perfectly well at the higher levels.
There are several misnomers here that I find annoying however. Blasters CAN attack when mezzed. Defiance allows ANY blaster to attack with their first two attacks from their primary and the first attack from their secondary when mezzed. That means at least TWO attacks and something THREE depending on secondary for your blaster even when mezzed... The corruptor and the defender CANNOT do this..
Even if you are mezzed.. there is this little thing called a BREAK FREE people.. USE THEM..
I do not have ONE.. not ONE of these new high defense builds.. Yet I have played all these to 50
Airhammer-Energy/Energy. Great Mitigation from knockdown and with at least Two Damage Range HO's in EVERY attack. Hover, Powe Push and Boost Range you will rarely get close enough to hurt me. ANd if you do there is a nice Energy Punch. Bonesmasher combo waiting for you.
Sureshot- Arch/Devices Specializes is utilizing stealth and insane Accuracy and to Hit Buff to take targets down quickly. The combo of Rain of Arrows. Explosive Arrow and Fistfull or Arrow with THREE damage range HO's make a very quick attack chain. Plus having utility arrow like stun arrow are a big help.
Salvo-AR/NRG-Also uses range and wide cone attacks to his advantage as well as hover to keep a distance. Full Auto is a smaller crashless nuke that is up every thirty second combines with the LRM rocket from the Mutions pool he can make your day hell.
Taiyoken-Rad/Mental- I dont even know where to start. Range Single target.. Check.. AoE check.. PbAoE check.. Defense debuffs.. check.. Regen my health and stamina with Drain Psyche.. Check.. Build Up Aim.. Irddiate. Psy Shockwave Atomic Blast... trip to the Zig...
Taser Eec/Elec- The Blaptroller... Ranged Damage.. check.. Melee Damage.. check.. THREE single target holds with the Elec Epic Pool.. Check.. End Drain foes and keep them there.. check..
FyrePsyde- Fire/Mental... Not even gonna tallk about this one.. I have run farms with Fire/Kin controllers that have made them say DAMN i need to get one of those..
and I have a Rad/Fire I have at 32. I also had an Ice/ice at level 35 but i deleted it.. fun but I wanted an Ice/Cold deender instead..
My advicee to you is MAKE ONE.. PLAY IT and see if it is FUN.. dont let people scare you off from playing something...
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Actually, the devs have stated multiple times that their intention was the opposite. They want this to have the feel of a "twitch-based" game, with you being required to constantly press buttons. They do not want you to just turn on a macro and go grab a sandwich while your character farm spawns and mines resources all on its own. |
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I love my Blasters, but I shouldn't be required to be a professional strategist, mathematician, or have the twitch reflexes of a competitive First Person Shooter player just to play the AT. This is, afterall, a game where players are suppose to have fun, kick back, socialize, and relax all while playing a toon they adore. Blasters can make it hard to do that. I'd like to see that changed, for PvE sake (they aren't too shabby in the current pvp system).
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Granted, "kicking back and socializing" doesn't have the stigma associated with macroing, but it's essentially the same thing. The closest you come to being able to play an AT while chatting or otherwise not being actively involved in the combat is a Mastermind, and even then micromanaging can improve your survivability and killing speed.
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That can't be right. Flares has a damage scale of 1.01. Fire Blast has a damage scale of 1.48. Unless the Fire Blast isn't slotted or something, that don't add up. It should be around 63 + 4*9.3 or ~100 damage, at level 50.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Flares: 63
Fire Blast: 51 (Ouch!) |
Oh, wait, never mind, that's DPA. Carry on.
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This is a point that cannot be driven home strongly enough. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
There are several misnomers here that I find annoying however. Blasters CAN attack when mezzed. Defiance allows ANY blaster to attack with their first two attacks from their primary and the first attack from their secondary when mezzed. That means at least TWO attacks and something THREE depending on secondary for your blaster even when mezzed... The corruptor and the defender CANNOT do this..
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During a little 'friendly' discussion here on the forum some months back where a few people claimed it was "impossible" to play blasters against enemies with status effects, I made a custom AE mission with Malta, and every single enemy group was set up to include a boss Gunslinger, which is well known as an enemy that can completely status-lock a squishy.
I ran through a bunch of times with my main, an AR/EM blaster, with bosses enabled, to prove that blasters could handle even boss-level mezzers through use of their own control powers. Worked pretty well, although I had a couple faceplants when Beanbag or Power Thrust missed.
After that, I turned bosses off, which set every Gunslinger boss to LT rank, but still with all their nice mezzing effects available. I ran it again, repeatedly, with a Fire/EM blaster this time. I didn't try and control anything. I simply ran up to every Gunslinger and burned him down. They'd hold my blaster with that nice ice bullet of theirs, and thanks to defiance, I'd just keep firing away. No tactics. No pulling. No control. Just running up right in their face and mashing attacks. Worked every time, 100%. I suffered exactly zero defeats running that mission over & over again with that 'tactic'.
Defiance is an amazingly powerful tool, and doesn't even really require much in the way of tactics to take full advantage of it.
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OH!!! I've always thought Blaster's damage modifier is 1.0 for both range/melee. Is Blaster's melee 1.125 as well? Isn't Scrapper the only one being 1.125? T_T
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Corruptor's ranged damage mod is .75; a Blaster's is 1.125. That's a 50% increase.
126*1.5=189 As I said, anyone who thinks a Corruptor is out-damaging a Blaster is hallucinating. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Blaster Melee is 1.0, I believe.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
OH!!! I've always thought Blaster's damage modifier is 1.0 for both range/melee. Is Blaster's melee 1.125 as well? Isn't Scrapper the only one being 1.125? T_T
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ObTopic: I like my Arch/EM's versatility. Following the doctrine, when there's little mitigation about there's Stun and single target damage (fists first!); when there is mitigation, there's Rain of Arrows. Mmm, pointy! (Also useful solo; if I can't decide how to approach a spawn with the available tools, the massive alpha is probably about to recharge.)|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I love my Blasters, but I shouldn't be required to be a professional strategist, mathematician, or have the twitch reflexes of a competitive First Person Shooter player just to play the AT.
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I have sucessfully soloed and teamed on a Blaster. I do not have FPS-grade reflexes, and oceans are a bit damp. (Teaming on a Stalker, however...)
Meben, 38 Kat/SR NPK Stalker (Defiant)
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I was on a farm map with my Fire/Mental Blaster with a Fire/Kin Controller. There were two mobs really close to each other. I told the Fire/Kin.// Ill take the one on the left, you take the one on the right. Everyone else in the group were lowbit SG members he was PL'in. I went in.. EMP PULSE help my mob.. Drain Psyche to help end recovery.. Fireball, Psy Shcokwave, Inferno.. Dead Mob.. Ate a Blue.. turned to the right and FINISHED OFF his Mob...|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Ironically, when I play my Fire/Fire blaster, I do often hear kins saying they can't get Fulcrum Shift off because the enemies die too fast (and I think, "Then we don't need FS now, do we?"). I often consciously slow down my kill speed on teams in order to let things like FS and Spine Burst happen, not because I think it will make us faster, but because I think it will make the other players have more fun (and it is also fun for me to stand in the center of a mob with Hot Feet ticking and then watching the Rain of Arrows fall around me killing all of our enemy).
After all, when you FS buff that Tanker who then Foot Stomps, you don't stand back and say, "OMG! I rawk so hard and my buffs are so uber and its ALLLLL thanks to ME cuz FooT Stomp is crap without FS and I could face these spawns solo too!!!!" |
Fire/kin said to me.. WOW I gotta get one of those..
Dont tell ma Currupturs overall can outdamage blasters.. I have several Corruptors and while there are certain builds that can by and large they do not. I have defenders that can outdamage certain blasters.. but if I build a better blaster it will outdamage that defender every single time.
Blasters also have one huge advantage.. Build with Build Up and Aim have a constant self buff to spike their damage.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Blasters are bloody fun. I have three of em, including my sole 50. I'm used to being the glass cannon, I tend to pick classes/ATs that fit that no matter where I go.
Yeah, the game gets harder at 30ish, but I typically find it's sort of a bump and things get easier again post-35 or so, between the tier 8s and 9s, gaining an epic pool, and starting to slot (nice) sets.
Yeah, blasters are squishy. And we do a lot of damage. And if you play right, we're devastating. Ever ran in, nuked, died, and popped Rise of the Phoenix? It's fun. I sometimes swear at people who try to rez me before I get RotP off. I've had people call me an exploding vengeance monkey. And that's just on my 50, where I've turned my lower HP into a weapon of mass destruction. I'm full-throttle reckless anywhere above 42 on her, but dial it back a bit when I lose that power. Strategy. It's just one way of playing, and is actually viable on a high-level blaster.
Roll one, try it out. Debt is temporary. You'll undoubtably spend some time facedown learning the AT, but who doesn't? If you're a smart player, you'll find ways to minimize that without shortchanging your damage.
For reference, my blasters are elec/energy (50), dp/energy (38), and energy/fire (35). I'm comparatively new to the game and have crippling altitis, but of all the ATs, blaster is probably still my favorite.
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Yes.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
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Are people over-exaggerating the situation? |
People who are having trouble soloing on their lvl 30 Blasters just need to work a little harder at figuring it out.
Ranged defense says hello.
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Oh... I see.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Blaster Melee is 1.0, I believe.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
You can definitely build defense into a blaster with IO sets. I dont. Two reasons. One in all honesty in a lot of build I have seen I have seen people hamper damage or accuracy or slot things I would NEVER slot to get some defense. Now im not against that, its just not for me. And since my first character was a blaster I have learned a lot of little tricks of the trade to survive which includes using my inspirations.
Second I just KNOW they are gonna do something that affects defense.. PLus IMO range can be a very powerful defense.
Thirdly the ultimatre defense is a defeated foe. A defeated foe cannot hurt me. Therefore I tend to focus on defeating foes ASAP and to that end I focus on Hitting (Accuracy) Hitting often ( recharge ) and hitting as often as long as possible ( end reduction ). My IO bonuses therefore tend to focus on gllobal recharge and accuracy.
I find this works for me YMMV...
You can play a blaster SO many different ways..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Well, let's compare Blaster vs. Scrapper then.
Fire Melee Scrapper DPA @50, unenhanced. Scorch: 63 Fire Sword: 72 Cremate: 85 Breath of Fire: 37 (10 target max) Fire Sword Circle: 41 (10 target max) Incinerate: 94 Greater Fire Sword: 73 Fire/Electric Blaster DPA @50, unenhanced. Flares: 63 Fire Blast: 51 (Ouch!) Fire Ball: 75 (16 target max) Fire Breath: 41 (10 target max) Blaze: 170 ( )Charged Brawl: 131 Havoc Punch: 96 Shocking Grasp: 100 So, let's see.. Blaster has 4 single target attacks with more DPA than the single highest DPA attack the scrapper has. Blaze alone does twice as much damage as all but the highest DPA scrapper attack, Incinerate. Fireball has as much DPA by itself as both scrapper AOE attacks combined AND hits 60% more targets. And on top of that, the Blaster has a damage buff from defiance, which adds a good 10%-20% to all those numbers, along with both Aim & Build-Up. Yep, that is clearly falling 'behind' scrapper damage. |
Now that's funny
3 out of 4 of those high damaging attacks are melee and fire isn't the high end scrapper primary for damage
This thread and this particular post
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...81#post3071381
Presents a nice summary of what is actually achievable. Fire is not at the top of the list.
But even on a straight name to name comparison blaster Fire/Elec gets about 300 achievable DPS vs Scrapper Fire/Shield at 267 achievable. That is trading 10% more DPS for at an absolute minimum the ability to survive in a fight 50% longer. That fight is one where both are fighting non mezzing enemies that only do smash lethal tagged damage and its not calculating the added benefits the scrapper gets from higher levels of regeneration and access to the Body Mastery pool.
So the alive scrapper would tend to outdistance the dead blaster.
I wish people would stop assuming hat every blaster just drops dead at the first hint of damage.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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My Easy-mode comment is more a snark about mez than anything else. When one group of AT's doesn't even have to think about a whole class of enemy powers, that is pretty much easy mode in comparison.
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Originally Posted by Ghostwind_EU
Ah, yes, Blaster is the only AT for any true, skilled gamer. All the other ATs have powers to help them defend themselves... Easy-moders, the lot of them! ;-)
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Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
Quote:
Well, I certainly don't see my blasters, or those of just about anyone I team with having the problems you describe, so I could only assume that the problems you describe are yours.
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
Did I ever say my Blaster's were dropping dead often?
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Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dysmal
My Easy-mode comment is more a snark about mez than anything else. When one group of AT's doesn't even have to think about a whole class of enemy powers, that is pretty much easy mode in comparison.
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Actually there are only 2 ATs with no access to Mez protection. Blasters and controllers are the 2, every other AT in the game can get mez protection. Controllers arguably have active defense that actually works.
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This isn't true and even if it were fixed, it has no bearing on the discussion/debate.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Actually there are only 2 ATs with no access to Mez protection. Blasters and controllers are the 2, every other AT in the game can get mez protection. Controllers arguably have active defense that actually works.
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Controllers can get Indomitable Will. What are you thinking of for Corruptors and Defenders if not Sonic/FF's Dispersion? Because Controllers can get either.
You can't seriously pigeonhole every AT into the powersets that fit your arguement though. Most Controllers, Corruptors, Defenders, Blasters, and Masterminds have the same mez protection. Yet, only one of them can attack while mezzed. Also, Blasters have the most hitpoints of all of them.
Blaster's have the most restricted access to mez protection, true, but perhaps you should consider how many Corruptors actually take /Sonic. It's pretty low.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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You realize you are just amplifying my initial argument. Blasters as a broken AT. Truth, I forget about mez protection on controllers because mine have never needed it and quite frankly the psi epic is meh compared to other things that are available. Who needs mez protection when everything is pre-emptively locked down ? |
Originally Posted by Gilia
This isn't true and even if it were fixed, it has no bearing on the discussion/debate.
Controllers can get Indomitable Will. What are you thinking of for Corruptors and Defenders if not Sonic/FF's Dispersion? Because Controllers can get either. You can't seriously pigeonhole every AT into the powersets that fit your arguement though. Most Controllers, Corruptors, Defenders, Blasters, and Masterminds have the same mez protection. Yet, only one of them can attack while mezzed. Also, Blasters have the most hitpoints of all of them. Blaster's have the most restricted access to mez protection, true, but perhaps you should consider how many Corruptors actually take /Sonic. It's pretty low. |
Blasters having the most hitpoints is such a red herring that I would love the opportunity to sell Florida swampland as retirement property and garbage mutual funds to the people that quote it. Blasters have 20% more hitpoints than the other squishy ATs, this is a little less than the green inspiration they cant pop because they are mezzed.
Fire Melee Scrapper DPA @50, unenhanced.
Scorch: 63
Fire Sword: 72
Cremate: 85
Breath of Fire: 37 (10 target max)
Fire Sword Circle: 41 (10 target max)
Incinerate: 94
Greater Fire Sword: 73
Fire/Electric Blaster DPA @50, unenhanced.
Flares: 63
Fire Blast: 51 (Ouch!)
Fire Ball: 75 (16 target max)
Fire Breath: 41 (10 target max)
Blaze: 170 (
Charged Brawl: 131
Havoc Punch: 96
Shocking Grasp: 100
So, let's see.. Blaster has 4 single target attacks with more DPA than the single highest DPA attack the scrapper has. Blaze alone does twice as much damage as all but the highest DPA scrapper attack, Incinerate. Fireball has as much DPA by itself as both scrapper AOE attacks combined AND hits 60% more targets.
And on top of that, the Blaster has a damage buff from defiance, which adds a good 10%-20% to all those numbers, along with both Aim & Build-Up.
Yep, that is clearly falling 'behind' scrapper damage.