In my experience the powers you pick at 47 and 49 don't need to be heavily slotted. I can't imagine many people are leaving it that late to pick a power that is that vital to their build.
I'd be opposed to any extra slots. I realise that you're not specifically talking about the powers that people will take because they don't need to allocate picks to Fitness now, but any new slots would as likely as not be used in those powers.
3 new powers for free is quite enough. Extra slots on top of that would be power creep.
We're getting more slots with the incarnate system.
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I challenge you to look at Long Range Missile Rocket (sic), which is a power that requires accuracy, damage slotting and a not insignificant amount of endurance slotting, plus a power which really benefits from recharge reduction. It's a T3 pick in Munitions Mastery, which means you are physically incapable of taking it before level 47, and if you do take it at level 47 and six-slot it, then that means your level 49 power will be physically incapable of receiving more than a single extra slot.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
In my experience the powers you pick at 47 and 49 don't need to be heavily slotted. I can't imagine many people are leaving it that late to pick a power that is that vital to their build.
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I've always maintained that we need to get a few more slots at level 50. Even if it's by a couple. Just something to make level 50 stand out a little more than just another enhancement level.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Frankenslot with 3 Acc/Dam/End IOs (giving a total of about 55% to all 3) and a Damage IO (to bump damage up to 95%ish). Or 2 Acc/Dam/End and 2 Damage/Recharge if you prefer (or a mix between them).|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I challenge you to look at Long Range Missile Rocket (sic), which is a power that requires accuracy, damage slotting and a not insignificant amount of endurance slotting, plus a power which really benefits from recharge reduction. It's a T3 pick in Munitions Mastery, which means you are physically incapable of taking it before level 47, and if you do take it at level 47 and six-slot it, then that means your level 49 power will be physically incapable of receiving more than a single extra slot.
I've always maintained that we need to get a few more slots at level 50. Even if it's by a couple. Just something to make level 50 stand out a little more than just another enhancement level. |
I've very rarely wished for more slots, but I frankenslot everything and every character. Even my Warshade was pretty content with the number they had in the end.
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This. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Frankenslot with 3 Acc/Dam/End IOs (giving a total of about 55% to all 3) and a Damage IO (to bump damage up to 95%ish). Or 2 Acc/Dam/End and 2 Damage/Recharge if you prefer (or a mix between them).
I've very rarely wished for more slots, but I frankenslot everything and every character. Even my Warshade was pretty content with the number they had in the end. |
I have that power and used some creativity with frankenslotting. And IME, it is not "vital" to my build (as pointed out by NightshadeLegree). If you are depending on that attack for your build to be playable, that must be one interesting build.
I know IO's are optional but if the point is being made to flat out ignore them because they don't want to, thus needing more slots for lvl47/49 powers, I would challenge you Sam to provide some evidence how big an issue this is. The game provides many tools to including s/HO's which are obtained from the content in the game if the player chooses to ignore the market. (And it would be splitting hairs if it is brought up that there are players that don't do raids or don't have time for TFs like the STF or LRSF AND refuse to use the market AND need a lvl47 power that is vital to their build - that is going to extremes unless you have solid numbers showing the severity of the issue.)
The number of slots are a challenge to think on your build and make choices. The devs are not blind to the fact that there are lvl47 and 49 powers and the number of slots possible for them. You have to make a choice or be creative with the tools the game gives you.
I don't have a level 50 character yet but this makes sense to me. I hate the idea of not having the option to 6 slot a power, however with Incarnate content just around the corner I think it would be better wait and see at this point. For all we know 50 is just going to be another slot level after the new endgame content and advancement arrives.
So much for Inventions not being required, I suppose. They aren't, except when they are.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Where did you read this?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
We're getting more slots with the incarnate system.
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Incarnate slots != regular slots
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
We're getting more slots with the incarnate system.
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Sam, this is confusing. Could you give a little more clarification?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So much for Inventions not being required, I suppose. They aren't, except when they are.
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You can slot the lvl47 power to 6, even with just SOs. The lvl49 power is the only power we can not 6 slot.
It is very unclear how a lvl47 (or 49) power is vital to a build, even if just using SOs and ignoring any IO set bonuses. For example, I have leveled up in this range and not bothered training until lvl50. I was able to still defeat mobs and play the contect solo or teamed. Further, I have teamed on the LGTF as a 45+ SSK'd to 49, and ITFs as a 35+ SSK'd to 49. No issues any time, so those powers and slot that I have yet to take did not impact my contribution to the team.
You don't have to use IOs at all. You can use SOs and even s/HOs, that you know are not inventions. Additionally, you can avoid the market if you wish and just run the STF or LRSF or participate in Hami raids to get those enhancements. I view it as an extreme if a player is purposely choosing to not use IOs (including generics) and saying they don't have time for the STF/LRSF or won't do Hami raids and avoiding the market, but yet still wanting to have the benefits of those enhancements. They may exist, but to what extent? Taking the "just give me more slots" position seems spoilish IMO since they want the benefits but not work for them. They can achieve what they want either by six slotting the lvl47 at the expense of the lvl49 power or frankenslotting or using s/HOs or some other creative solution.
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If you heard different and we aren't getting incarnate slots then what are getting? More powers? If so that seems pretty useless without slots for them.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Where did you read this?
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Besides why should the devs give us more slots just because Fitness gets made inherent? Khelds don't get more slots and they get access to a lot more powers when they unlock the Nova and Dwarf forms. Players just need to decide whats more important to them when assigning slots.
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They are if you want to have your cake and eat it for this case.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So much for Inventions not being required, I suppose. They aren't, except when they are.
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Of course there's nothing wrong with just slotting it with 1 Acc and 3 Damage if you want baseline effectiveness (or stealing some of the level 50 slots as well and taking something like Assault as your Level 49 power).
But they are talking about incarnate slots. Not slots when incarnate. I think thats big difference.
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Yes it's true that Incarnate slots != regular slots.|
Originally Posted by Dalantia
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But I suspect this change to Fitness is a direct result of the work involved with the plans for the upcoming Incarnate system. It seems very reasonable to assume that the Devs have weighed the impact of what the Incarnate system will do to characters game balance wise and factored that into their overall planning.
My guess is that while more regular slots for our level 47/49 powers would be nice I don't think we're going to be needing them.
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Right. Incarnate slots will allow characters to be improved globally without having to slot individual powers. Since the Incarnate system will only work at level 50, that shouldn't be a problem for powers obtained at level 47 and 49.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes it's true that Incarnate slots != regular slots.
But I suspect this change to Fitness is a direct result of the work involved with the plans for the upcoming Incarnate system. It seems very reasonable to assume that the Devs have weighed the impact of what the Incarnate system will do to characters game balance wise and factored that into their overall planning. My guess is that while more regular slots for our level 47/49 powers would be nice I don't think we're going to be needing them. |
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Here's the thing, though. It is said that there is no power which requires many slots that you can't take before level 47, when in fact there is at least one. In fact, there are several, if memory serves, such as Foce of Nature (sic). Certain powers exist and have always existed, that can be taken at level 49 at the earlies, which benefit from many, many slots.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
They are if you want to have your cake and eat it for this case.
Of course there's nothing wrong with just slotting it with 1 Acc and 3 Damage if you want baseline effectiveness (or stealing some of the level 50 slots as well and taking something like Assault as your Level 49 power). |
That's why I'm saying that a couple of extra slots at level 50 might not be a bad idea, both to make level 50 stand out a bit more and to not shaft what you take at 49 so badly. Because ANY power you take at level 49 HAS to be one that doesn't require many slots, which by extension means it almost always has to be one that isn't very inspiring, such Assault or Hurdle or something of that nature. They're good to have, mind you - every power is. But there's this inverse logic which, rather than holding off the best for last, makes us hold off the worst for last, thereby making the last, say, 4 or 5 levels of gameplay really boring because nothing you get in them will be slotted very well.
Either a few more slots, or opening up Epics sooner, say at 38 or at 35, such that I can take the final Epic power sooner than 47 would be great. After all, with Fitness becoming inherent and people apparently being given lots of "free" power choices, it'd make sense.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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My thoughts?|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Inherent Fitness is just fantastic; it was on my top ten of "never gonna happen".
Since the announcement, I've seen quite a few threads about more enhancement slots for the new powers we'll able to choose in place of Fitness. I'm fine without new slots, I can deal with that. That said, the murmurs have gotten me thinking: The Level 47 and 49 powers seldom have many slots allocated to them(especially the level 49 power). I wonder if it might be a feasible idea to grant four enhancement slots at level 48 and 50 instead of three. This could make the 47 & 49 a bit stronger, or allocated to the newer power picks(and without severely unbalancing the system). Thoughts? |
I want more stuff. I like getting free stuff and I would like more slots.
But I'll admit that I probably don't need most of the stuff that I want.
Also: we don't know whether or not any additional slots are planned when the Devs make Fitness inherent. So I'm not going to stress out quite yet either way.
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I wouldn't assume we are getting powers the traditional way with the Incarnate System. And what was originally in closed beta did not give us more slots.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
If you heard different and we aren't getting incarnate slots then what are getting? More powers? If so that seems pretty useless without slots for them.
Besides why should the devs give us more slots just because Fitness gets made inherent? Khelds don't get more slots and they get access to a lot more powers when they unlock the Nova and Dwarf forms. Players just need to decide whats more important to them when assigning slots. |
incarnate slots doesn't equal traditional slots.
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This is really confusing. What power(s) are you referring too - LRM rocket, FoN? How are these vital and why can't you take at 47 and just six slot using the slots at 50? Also, all powers are opened at 47. There is no power unlocked at 49. I would also argue that the devs know what power picks are availabile at 47 and 49 and those powers are there based on their effectiveness and ability to be slotted. Just how much more benefit we talking here? |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here's the thing, though. It is said that there is no power which requires many slots that you can't take before level 47, when in fact there is at least one. In fact, there are several, if memory serves, such as Foce of Nature (sic). Certain powers exist and have always existed, that can be taken at level 49 at the earlies, which benefit from many, many slots.
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That's why I'm saying that a couple of extra slots at level 50 might not be a bad idea, both to make level 50 stand out a bit more and to not shaft what you take at 49 so badly. Because ANY power you take at level 49 HAS to be one that doesn't require many slots, which by extension means it almost always has to be one that isn't very inspiring, such Assault or Hurdle or something of that nature. They're good to have, mind you - every power is. But there's this inverse logic which, rather than holding off the best for last, makes us hold off the worst for last, thereby making the last, say, 4 or 5 levels of gameplay really boring because nothing you get in them will be slotted very well. Either a few more slots, or opening up Epics sooner, say at 38 or at 35, such that I can take the final Epic power sooner than 47 would be great. After all, with Fitness becoming inherent and people apparently being given lots of "free" power choices, it'd make sense. |
You are also ignoring other ways to get effectively slot the lvl47/49 powers more powerfully. The game gives you the tools already. You are choosing to not use them and saying more slots are the answer - esp. when there are players soloing content like AV's, S/TFs, etc. This would make this game even easier by removing challenge on build design and making stronger toons even stronger.
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And again I don't think anyone was technically claiming that Incarnate slots = regular slots.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I wouldn't assume we are getting powers the traditional way with the Incarnate System. And what was originally in closed beta did not give us more slots.
incarnate slots doesn't equal traditional slots. |
But because Incarnate slots are going to affect all powers globally anything slotted into them will improve all powers, even the 47/49 ones. This is why even though I'm not against the idea of getting more regular slots I ultimate don't think A) were going to need them or B) the game would be balanced for them regardless.
People have been wanting more regular slots for our highest level powers for years.
Clearly the Incarnate system is going to be the answer for that.
It might not quite be the "answer" we were looking for, but it's the "answer" the Devs are giving us for that.
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Huh....so, exactly what content in the base game would be impossible without IO slotting for your LRM?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So much for Inventions not being required, I suppose. They aren't, except when they are.
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The entire point of the invention system is to give performance options to players who are willing to invest some more time and effort into achieving better results with their characters.
LRM will work just fine with SOs (or generics, which is what I use on my ar/dev).
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Unless something changes from what was leaked on test, only 2 of the first 5 Incarnate slots modify powers (alpha worked as a global enhancement and one of the others added a proc effect to most attacks) and none of them exemp down at all. They aren't going to effect much of the existing content so I really can't see them as a solution to "under slotted" level 47/49 powers.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
And again I don't think anyone was technically claiming that Incarnate slots = regular slots.
But because Incarnate slots are going to affect all powers globally anything slotted into them will improve all powers, even the 47/49 ones. This is why even though I'm not against the idea of getting more regular slots I ultimate don't think A) were going to need them or B) the game would be balanced for them regardless. People have been wanting more regular slots for our highest level powers for years. Clearly the Incarnate system is going to be the answer for that. It might not quite be the "answer" we were looking for, but it's the "answer" the Devs are giving us for that. |
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The last time the ALPHA slot was in Closed BETA, only ONE thing could be slotted into it from a list of craftable buffs.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
And again I don't think anyone was technically claiming that Incarnate slots = regular slots.
But because Incarnate slots are going to affect all powers globally anything slotted into them will improve all powers, even the 47/49 ones. This is why even though I'm not against the idea of getting more regular slots I ultimate don't think A) were going to need them or B) the game would be balanced for them regardless. People have been wanting more regular slots for our highest level powers for years. Clearly the Incarnate system is going to be the answer for that. It might not quite be the "answer" we were looking for, but it's the "answer" the Devs are giving us for that. |
So if you slotted end redux in it it will globally affect all powers, but then you couldn't slot the global recharge. Also for resistance it only affected powers that GAVE resistance, such as the sheild.
that's not quite the same as the "more slots" that folks had in mind. With all that said this may changed when the re-intro the ALPHA SLOT (Which I think is the only slot coming in I19).
With that said I don't agree or disagree with them giving us more regular slots.
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Also THIS.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
Unless something changes from what was leaked on test, only 2 of the first 5 Incarnate slots modify powers (alpha worked as a global enhancement and one of the others added a proc effect to most attacks) and none of them exemp down at all. They aren't going to effect much of the existing content so I really can't see them as a solution to "under slotted" level 47/49 powers.
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Bottom line: better to nip the idea that Incarnates is somehow more traditional slots , powers, and levels, cause it's not. I'd rather that be clear than have folks be disappointed and ***** at the devs as they usually do when they get misinformation.
This is all subject to change if the devs decided to completely revamp the ALPHA slot.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Inherent Fitness is just fantastic; it was on my top ten of "never gonna happen".
Since the announcement, I've seen quite a few threads about more enhancement slots for the new powers we'll able to choose in place of Fitness. I'm fine without new slots, I can deal with that. That said, the murmurs have gotten me thinking:
The Level 47 and 49 powers seldom have many slots allocated to them(especially the level 49 power). I wonder if it might be a feasible idea to grant four enhancement slots at level 48 and 50 instead of three. This could make the 47 & 49 a bit stronger, or allocated to the newer power picks(and without severely unbalancing the system).
Thoughts?
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