You know, I don't think we need the extra slots, but at the same time I wouldn't be oppossed to an additional slot being granted at lvl 48 and/or 50.
It's more reasonable than those asking for 20 new slots (okay, maybe they're not asking for that many).
I'd just like to 5 slot that lvl 47 and 49 Powers sometimes. 
Though I'll freely admit, that's not often.
But then, it might be because I haven't had to many builds that could fit in 4 powers from the epics.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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So change builds before exemplaring?|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
yeah this is the part folks keep glosing over. Even if you plan your build along the way for them, even if you respec into them, and even if you use the third build, the second you exemp all that building doesn't matter.
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Just an option. I don't see any exemplaring in BZB's future once the incarnate stuff drops if there's any truth toward the new end game content being much more difficult and soloable.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I thought it allowed for exemping to level 45. I could be remembering wrong. But I thought the incarnate abilities allowed for a little room in exemping.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So change builds before exemplaring?
Just an option. I don't see any exemplaring in BZB's future once the incarnate stuff drops if there's any truth toward the new end game content being much more difficult and soloable. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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True! Changing builds is an option.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So change builds before exemplaring?
Just an option. I don't see any exemplaring in BZB's future once the incarnate stuff drops if there's any truth toward the new end game content being much more difficult and soloable. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I believe you are right.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I thought it allowed for exemping to level 45. I could be remembering wrong. But I thought the incarnate abilities allowed for a little room in exemping.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
You know, I actually understand this logic, and what you're saying makes sense. The truth is, dinging 50, to me, is kind of a sad moment. It's an "ok...you're done with this guy" moment. To be honest, I'd be MUCH happier if they did a simple work around like this...|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's why I'm saying that a couple of extra slots at level 50 might not be a bad idea, both to make level 50 stand out a bit more and to not shaft what you take at 49 so badly. Because ANY power you take at level 49 HAS to be one that doesn't require many slots, which by extension means it almost always has to be one that isn't very inspiring, such Assault or Hurdle or something of that nature. They're good to have, mind you - every power is. But there's this inverse logic which, rather than holding off the best for last, makes us hold off the worst for last, thereby making the last, say, 4 or 5 levels of gameplay really boring because nothing you get in them will be slotted very well.
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levels 1-47= function exactly as they do now.
level 49= instead of a new power, you're given three more power slots to slot into your level 47 power.
level 50: You are given a new power choice AND two extra slots to slot into said power. This would make 50 feel truly "special", still allow us to have the same number of powers, and a total of two extra enhancement slots would be given.
You wouldn't have your 50 choice being slotted more under this change, but 50 WOULD feel more "Special" because you immediatly get your new power, complete with the amped up slotting. The new power would, immediatly, feel more "uber" that a normal power when 1st chosen because its coming with up to 4 possible slots right out of the bag.
Current
47 = 1
48 = 3
49 = 1
50 = 3
______
8
Suggested
47= 1
48 = 3
49 = 3
50 = 3
_______
10
Of course, Ive always wished that the "levelling" bonus you got didnt give you a tray full of insps, but instead instantly recharged all of your powers and boosted your recharge, regen, and recovert rates for the next 5 seconds (per 10 levels earned). A character hits 2-10, they get 5 seconds of uberness, 11-20: 10 seconds, 21-30: 15 seconds, 30-40: 20 seconds, and 41-50: 25 seconds. This would really make levelling feel "powerful", fit thematically, and still not be "over powered" because, at most, you're going to get 25 seconds of essentially the effects of "speed boost" and "Accerlated metabolism" on your character when facing late game content. It might let you kick *** for one mob or so, then go back to normal.
Still, I think levelling should really make you feel "uber" when it happens. Getting insps kinda makes me feel less "uber" and more "you're weak, so use these."
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I can't afford to IO out more than one build. And I mean in terms of time as well as Inf.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So change builds before exemplaring?
Just an option. I don't see any exemplaring in BZB's future once the incarnate stuff drops if there's any truth toward the new end game content being much more difficult and soloable. |
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to be negative about the Incarnate system (or anything else), I'm just saying that hanging hopes of making up any (perceived or real) shortage of slots on it doesn't seem to meet my expectations.
I don't see adding 3 or 4 slots to a character's lifespan (one each at levels 23, 27, and 1 or 2 at 50, optionally skipping the one at 23) to be game changing or earth shattering. Nor do I see the lack of them as devastating.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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I tend to suspect anyone who's going to majorly "min/max" the whole Incarnate system can and will be able to account for exemplaring regardless.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
yeah this is the part folks keep glosing over. Even if you plan your build along the way for them, even if you respec into them, and even if you use the third build, the second you exemp all that building doesn't matter.
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Obviously if anyone assumes that the Incarnate system will make us gods at any level all by itself they need to rethink that idea. On the other hand (and know there will be people who don't like me reminding them of this) there are already lots of old-time players who have builds that include 30, 40 or even more Purple IOs already. These people may very well become super-gods at level 50 as Incarnates because they are already god-like at most any level below that.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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There are also some players that simply don't use the exemplar feature. I know that I've never used it. That's why I have alts. How builds work when exemplaring never crosses my mind.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I tend to suspect anyone who's going to majorly "min/max" the whole Incarnate system can and will be able to account for exemplaring regardless.
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Indeed. I tend to avoid Exemplaring, myself.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
There are also some players that simply don't use the exemplar feature. I know that I've never used it. That's why I have alts. How builds work when exemplaring never crosses my mind.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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There are some players who never, ever, make it past level 30, either. That doesn't negate the fact that the game needs to be balanced for the many many players who DO make it into the 31+ content, too. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Indeed. I tend to avoid Exemplaring, myself.
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I'm not negating what you're saying, just pointing out that anedotal stories of it not applying to your play style don't really further the discussion. Now an explanation of -why- you don't use it and how that may factor in to the discussion might. For example... ;-)
Swapping builds:
Not being able to use the same enhancements on multiple builds is exactly why I never use the "swap builds" feature. I simply don't have the time to invest in IOing multiple builds on each character, and don't feel like swapping to a "gimped" via non-IOed build would be all together that helpful or fun. If they reworked the build system so that it worked like a respec, allowing you to keep your enhancements and replace them where applicabable in your new build, only instead of "selling" the enhancements when you finish they simply "disappear" for that build, then I'd probably start making a team/solo/exemp version of ALL of my characters. They would have to rework the builds so that they tag an enhancement as "bonded" to a build the 1st time the enhancment is used on a character, and only allow you to ever permanently "keep" unused enhancements after a respec on the build it was "bonded" to, to avoid having people respec and sell IOs on more than one build, but I think it's fairly easily doable. Until then, I just don't use it, and I -think- many other people don't for the same reason.
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I can get behind this. It would make level 50 a little more special than "just another slot level," which is what it is right now. I realise asking for specialities like this is kind of out of the norm, but then I do wish that level 50 were indeed out of the norm. Not necessarily game-breaking or game-changing, but at least having SOMETHING that told you "Hey, this is as high as the level system goes. You reached the top!" Just something different from what I've had two out of every three levels for the past 20 levels.
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Originally Posted by opprime28
You know, I actually understand this logic, and what you're saying makes sense. The truth is, dinging 50, to me, is kind of a sad moment. It's an "ok...you're done with this guy" moment. To be honest, I'd be MUCH happier if they did a simple work around like this...
levels 1-47= function exactly as they do now. level 49= instead of a new power, you're given three more power slots to slot into your level 47 power. level 50: You are given a new power choice AND two extra slots to slot into said power. This would make 50 feel truly "special", still allow us to have the same number of powers, and a total of two extra enhancement slots would be given. You wouldn't have your 50 choice being slotted more under this change, but 50 WOULD feel more "Special" because you immediatly get your new power, complete with the amped up slotting. The new power would, immediatly, feel more "uber" that a normal power when 1st chosen because its coming with up to 4 possible slots right out of the bag. Current 47 = 1 48 = 3 49 = 1 50 = 3 ______ 8 Suggested 47= 1 48 = 3 49 = 3 50 = 3 _______ 10 |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I never exemplar because I don't like losing power. Simple as that. Now I have to worry about losing powers AND losing Incarnate boosts. This is unlikely to change status quo for me. In fact, I don't see a point in exemplaring, especially at 50, when I could have devised a build to depend on a high-level power or the strength of high-level enhancements (which start scaling down below 30). I see no point in it.|
Originally Posted by opprime28
I'm not negating what you're saying, just pointing out that anedotal stories of it not applying to your play style don't really further the discussion. Now an explanation of -why- you don't use it and how that may factor in to the discussion might.
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That's not to say the exemplar system is at fault here, but merely to say that exemplaring has been a "take it or leave it" affair ever since it was introduced. I don't envision this changing with Incarnates.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No offense but I think you are missing the point or you don't know what glossing over means. A_F made a comment that people were glossing over the effects that exemping will have on the Incarnate slots.|
Originally Posted by opprime28
I'm not negating what you're saying, just pointing out that anedotal stories of it not applying to your play style don't really further the discussion.
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Glossing over can mean someone being purposefully misleading with their explanation.
I was pointing out that isn't the case for some of us. Since some of us simply don't use the feature we never considered what effects it would have on peoples characters.
There's a huge difference between not knowing how a feature you never use works and deliberately making misleading statements to give people the wrong impression on how something will work.
Another note on exemplaring: There's also the question of whether one should care about it at all.
When do you exemplar? For lower level TFs or to assist lowbie buddies, right?
I soloed the primary blueside TFs with a build that was in no way planned out for exemplaring and that was before you got +5 levels worth of powers out of the deal. You just don't need that kind of min/maxing unless you're planning around level capping a character for some specific purpose, in which case you're not giving thought towards a level 50 maxed build anyway.
The point being that while exemplared, max performance isn't going to matter much.
A fully cranked level 50 is going to have purples. Don't purples retain their bonuses completely while exemplared as long as the power they are slotted in is accessible? You've already got a major leg up on anyone at the natural level you're being reduced to.
I can't afford to IO out multiple builds either. Too time consuming. As I'm not a marketeer, I don't have the funds. I don't see the reason for more. With my PvE build, I do just fine while exemplared, I do just fine in PvP. I need no other build.
Be well, people of CoH.
50 is the last lvl we get, so it would make sense to get 5 slots.
This way, you can fully slot the last power you got at 49.
We respec and then pick at lvl 49 a 2-3 slots power usually, but it would be a nice way to stop leveling.
So, lvl 50 = 5 slots
I think there's an easy way to avoid (much) power creep or having mostly unslotable 47 and 49 powers.
Have the level 47 and 49 powers both start with 2 base slots, rather than 1.
By locking the two extra slots in the highest tier powers, you avoid the issue of players slotting their lower level powers a bit more (for high level set mods) but allow them to get more power from their highest echelon powers by allowing them both to be 5-slotted.
-Rachel-
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Or that, yes. It feels good to have the last few powers have a leg up, and it helps exactly where help is needed. Sweet |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
I think there's an easy way to avoid (much) power creep or having mostly unslotable 47 and 49 powers.
Have the level 47 and 49 powers both start with 2 base slots, rather than 1. By locking the two extra slots in the highest tier powers, you avoid the issue of players slotting their lower level powers a bit more (for high level set mods) but allow them to get more power from their highest echelon powers by allowing them both to be 5-slotted. -Rachel- |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No offense but I think you are missing the point or you don't know what glossing over means. A_F made a comment that people were glossing over the effects that exemping will have on the Incarnate slots.
Glossing over can mean someone being purposefully misleading with their explanation. I was pointing out that isn't the case for some of us. Since some of us simply don't use the feature we never considered what effects it would have on peoples characters. There's a huge difference between not knowing how a feature you never use works and deliberately making misleading statements to give people the wrong impression on how something will work. |
You know what, you're right. I'd forgotten the "glossed over" aspect to the conversation. In that context, those posts do make total sense.
And Steampunkette, your suggestion is really an even simpler version of mine, and I'd support that wholeheartedly. Good idea!
Quick, someone PM a dev! :-P
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You don't need the power accessible in order to keep set bonuses when you examplar. That's how I'm able to keep every set bonus for my DM/SR scrapper down to level 30 and use the top attack chain at that level.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
A fully cranked level 50 is going to have purples. Don't purples retain their bonuses completely while exemplared as long as the power they are slotted in is accessible? You've already got a major leg up on anyone at the natural level you're being reduced to.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
50 is the last lvl we get, so it would make sense to get 5 slots.
This way, you can fully slot the last power you got at 49. We respec and then pick at lvl 49 a 2-3 slots power usually, but it would be a nice way to stop leveling. So, lvl 50 = 5 slots |
This.
The Dev's seem to have firmly made the decision that the level cap will not be raised above 50. (This is wise, because it stops the "obsolesence of content" issue. Smart devs are smert.)
Since that is so, this leaves a single power selection orphaned by following the 1-49 progression model. L49 CANNOT be slotted as any other power can.
Why? At the top end of your character's power progression, why this artificial restriction?
If the level cap were going to be raised, you could address this with higher level slots, but it is not.
So, to "cap out' the level progression and add symmetry to the leveling system, I would strongly advocate that level 50 adds five slots.
This makes reaching 50 a unique milestone, removes the artificial constraint on the level 49 power, and allows the players to plan and play their toons as they wish.
Thank you for your time.
I think lvl 49 we should have the option of slots or a power.
@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
I dont know what you all are complaining about.
Im only 1 of 1 xp away from hitting level 51 and slotting that bad boy up!
:-)
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Not a bad idea
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
I think lvl 49 we should have the option of slots or a power.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!