Death of the true nuke... what if? Why not?

First of all I'll begin by saying that I am a long-standing fan of blasters. Even as I continue to rack up debt on them, I trudge on because they are just that fun. I will say, however, that my trudging has slowed since I've been making dominators and corruptors which bring decent blasting to the table, while being a bit less squishy due to their utility. I've grown a bit weary of some blast sets which I really want to love, but just feel inadequate.

Ice Blast is my favorite powerset and Blizzard is my favorite power in the whole game. Although it has this very annoying end crash and incredibly long recharge! Then I look at a few other powersets and I say I am mad as hell and I don't want to take it anymore! I am very jealous of Full-Auto, Hail of Bullets and Rain of Arrows. They can eventually all be used practically in every fight (Not so much HoB, but it's close with high recharge). They are also far more useful than the one-hit wonder gimmick that is a true nuke, which all other powersets have. They are gimmicks because once you've used them, they won't be helping anyone for a good while.

Now, I won't completely overlook a true nuke's usefulness as they do make great emergency powers and are good for taking care of a nasty mob. However, two sets in particular would be much better off with a power they could use consistently. Ice and Electric, especially Electric since it not only lacks a tier 3 st blast, but also decent aoe. I suppose the whole point of this rant, is to ask... why not? Give me your opinions, facts, provisos and death-threats. I want see the general stand of the community on such a radical change. I'd also really like a red-name's words on this as well.

They won't be changing any of the nukes due to the Cottage rule...

But honestly. I love nukes, and I wish I had one on every character.

I've never been a huge fan of true nukes - I always felt they were a bit underwhelming considering the penalty of 20-30 seconds downtime afterwards. I much prefer the half-nukes like Full Auto.

I did enjoy my first Blaster to hit level 32 (Elec/Elec) and spent a certain amount of time trawling Brickstown and Creys Folly for groups of orange minions that I could take out ten at a time with Aim/Build Up/Thunderous Blast. But, one lieutenant in the group could spoil that experience since they'd be left at half health with me with no endurance to finish them off. (This was before insp combining, so I wouldn't alwyas have a blue pill)

Since then though, I've only used nukes for special occasions, maybe once per week on characters I play every day. I find the frequency of the right situations coming up (swarmed by minions, but not about to die before it goes off, and no -one left to take me out post-nuke) are just too low in mission gameplay.

So I'd be quite happy if they introduced an alternative Tier 9 pseudo-nuke for some blast sets (as in choose the nuke or pseudo-nuke), but its not a high priority

I'm a fan of Nukes when the team and I are intentional about them. That could mean giving the Blaster AB, or herding whenever the recharge is up. They can be used quite well that way. Though there is no denying how awesome Rain of Arrows is.

The option to take an AoE with no crash (or less of a crash) would be really cool.

The biggest change I want to see though is Defenders and Corruptors having the crash reduced... like maybe -50% end and recovery. Their nukes are much less likely to kill a whole mob and them being out endurance can be a BIG change in pace, since they won't be debuffing and healing, etc... and the VEATs have AoEs that do about the same damage, disorient, same recharge, but no crash. Blaster's I'm more or less okay with, but reducing the -recovery time might be good.

Side note: the tier 3 ST for electric/ is Voltaic Sentinel. Harder to direct, of course, but I think the math shows it actually contributes more to ST DPS than the tier 3 does. You're spot on about the lack of AoE though.

There are ways around the cottage rule. 2 nuke options that are mutually exculsive. If you get one, you cannot get the other one.

While i doubt the devs are going to change true nukes around. It seems doubtful that they are going to make powers like that anymore. Moderate recharge, with less damage for 'nukes' seems to the norm. Same for the armor tier 9s.

Maybe a new tech can be developed such that a player can choose between a true nuke or mini nuke by activating the power differently. For example, a normal left-click for a true nuke, but shift-left-click for a mini nuke. For the true nuke, end drains completely and the power takes longer to recharge. This way, players can nuke differently according to the combat situation.

I like my Nova just the way it is. I don't use it all the time, and don't need to, but it is fun to just once in a while lay waste to a mass of Carnies and steal all those kills from the scrappers. I've already got more attacks than I can reliably use on a regular basis, so adding in another isn't really going to blow my metaphorical skirt up.

As to the 'shortcomings' of Electric, I think they should be be looked at independently of the set's nuke. Changing the nuke is still going to leave the set unchanged for the most part, and I don't really think the nuke is the issue with the set.

Elec is probably a different discussion, which is a shame because I have a LOT of opinions on it. (Elec already DOES have a better-than-standard nuke, because you can fly behind a box, hit Thunderous Blast, and fall to safety.)

Nuking having "downtime", DrMike, depends on your definition, really. I carry about eight blues, and I'm not shy about asking teammates for reactor fuel. Nukes are an all-the-time treat for me.

Having said all that, I think giving Scrappers and Brutes half-nukes was probably a design mistake, no matter HOW much fun Lightning Rod has given me. One more thing that used to be blaster-only...

(Also, it's hard to say "Half-nukes are The Way Forward." Sonic has a true nuke, Archery doesn't. Have they added any other blast sets since 2004?)

Dual Pistols.

I really like my True Nukes and tend to take them on basically any character that has access to them. I don't find the crash to be all that crippling. It can be mitigated with a Catch A Breath or two.

I get why some people prefer the mini-nukes, but I like my Nuke powers to be flashy, spectacular, and situational.

Personally, the only change I'd like to see done to true nukes is a damage increase. On my AR/En Blaster, I can mow down groups of enemies in three clicks (Build Up, Full Auto, M30 Grenade) every 30-60 seconds solo, same with my Archery/Mental. With my Energy/Devices Blaster, I can blow up a group of enemies as reliably as my other Blasters.. Every 3-4 minutes, and be left mostly defenseless afterwards. All nukes will take down Minions and Lieutenants and barely scratch a boss, the main differences being that the older sets' nukes are slower and far more dangerous to use.

If I have to run into a group, make myself practically defenseless on a squishy character and require the use of inspirations or team support (or both) to get the same effects as another character who can do so at a safe distance and with the ability to defend themself afterwards.. Well, I'd like there to at least be enough damage to down any bosses in range aswell.

The same applies to the melee nukes. IMO, they don't need changing, Blaster/Corruptor/Defender nukes do.

I am not one of those who misses "the old days of herding entire maps." But it occurs to me the true nukes were designed back then, without a target cap. When they were given the same target cap as all other AoEs, they became just hard-hitting AoEs that weaken you afterward. There's little sense of a dramatic, action-stopping, all-destroying blast when it's almost the same as Rain of Arrows.

Personally I wouldn't mind if the true nukes got even larger radii and had their target cap raised just a bit. Their long recharge would still limit it as a power-leveling tactic, because you can do so much with the regular non-nuke powers during a nuke's recharge that there wouldn't be any point in just waiting for the nuke to recharge. But a bigger boom wasting 25 or 30 guys at the cost of exhausting yourself would start to be attractive enough to at least compete with Rain of Arrows, for example.

There already is a version of Blizzard on the 1 minute mini-nuke recharge timer of RoA and Full Auto; you get it at tier 6 and it's called Ice Storm.

Thunderous Blast is another matter. An 'average' nuke does 305 base damage with a 6 minute recharge a full end crash and a significant amount of mitigation against anything that survived (mag 3 hold/stun, -50% to-hit debuff, -20% to-hit debuff and knockdown patch). Thunderous Blast does 266 with a 60 foot range, a 6 minute recharge a full end crash and an endurance drain secondary effect that requires ED cap slotting to be reliable against even con minions and 25% end-mod slotting to achieve that even with the 30% chance for additional drain going off. Finally Rain of Arrows does 225 with a 90 foot range, a 1 minute recharge and no end crash.

So at the moment Thunderous Blast sits almost exactly half way between the 'true nuke's and the best of the 'semi nuke's as far as damage goes, without having anything tangible to show for it.

Seems that there are a lot of thematically appropiate ways to at least partially rectify that imbalance without coming close to the cottage rule.

It's the only attack in Elec Blast with a smashing component, but at the moment has no smash: add an AoE knockdown effect.

Add an 11.9 second mag 3 sleep to the end, allowing time to pop blues or get aid but not act as the ranged AoE control power a hold or stun might be.

Instead of a single 30% chance for 25% additional end drain, have a 75% and a 50% chance for the same magnitude of drain; an average 37.5% of even con minions/lieutenants would then be fully drained with no requirement to slot for end-mod, while slotting would raise that fraction to 50% or the same effect as current when at the ED cap.

Remove the smashing damage component entirely - lowering average damage output to approximately 203. Lower recharge to 2 minutes and lose the crash; putting it in the same style as the new Hail of Bullets.

Any more ideas?

You can take my Build Up, Aim, Inferno combo from me when ya pry it from my burning, dead fingers!

And even your still dead, 'cos you're now in range of Rise of the Phoenix!

I'd say leave Nukes as they are, with an increase in target-cap, accuracy and damage, to make them actually a bang worth the buck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.