X-Men: First Class January Jones as Emma Frost Photos
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2010-09-08 18:04 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
Thing is with the Hulk is that there is less "poison" to deal with. Even if you say the two movies are terrible, the X-Men franchise would be in more dire straits, if First Class bombs, because it would have 3 terrible movies (X3, Wolverine, and FC) to deal with. And if it does revert to Marvel after FC, those three movies are all on Marvel to overcome, as opposed to the initial attempts at Hulk for Marvel, which only had to differentiate itself from Ang Lee's attempt.
|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
That's not stopping the Hulk.
|
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
Neither Hulk movie did that terrible at the box office.
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -- Dinobot
Quote:
Forget the hat. No one cares about the hat. The important part, especially for the fan boys, is what's under the coat/cape she's wearing. She could be wearing moose and squirrel on her head and no one would care as long as she was decked out in a tight corset with g-string.
|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Since it's a period-piece, the hat is the hight of fashion for the period.
|
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -- Dinobot
Quote:
And this is the real issue. She isn't walking around in a thong and garters the entire movie. I recommend surfing porn.
|
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
Forget the hat. No one cares about the hat. The important part, especially for the fan boys, is what's under the coat/cape she's wearing. She could be wearing moose and squirrel on her head and no one would care as long as she was decked out in a tight corset with g-string.
|
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Quote:
X3 made more money than X2. It is a success for the studios. Only the fanboys hate it (and hated it since Ratner signed on) and the hate did not affect the box office. If the mainstream movie going public likes FC, then expect more flashbacks.
|
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Thing is with the Hulk is that there is less "poison" to deal with. Even if you say the two movies are terrible, the X-Men franchise would be in more dire straits, if First Class bombs, because it would have 3 terrible movies (X3, Wolverine, and FC) to deal with. And if it does revert to Marvel after FC, those three movies are all on Marvel to overcome, as opposed to the initial attempts at Hulk for Marvel, which only had to differentiate itself from Ang Lee's attempt.
|
Quote:
All I'm saying is if you have Colossus and Juggernaut in your movie and they don't throw down, you have no soul.
|
Originally Posted by Divus
X3 made more money than X2. It is a success for the studios. Only the fanboys hate it (and hated it since Ratner signed on) and the hate did not affect the box office. If the mainstream movie going public likes FC, then expect more flashbacks.
|
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
My dislike for X-Men 3 have nothing to do with who they got to direct it. My dislike stems from them killing or neutering a number of characters from the first two movies, a non-magic origin/not Xavier's half brother Juggernaut, a non-fiery Phoenix as implied by the glow at the end of the 2nd movie, 10 second cameos from a cast of dozens of minor fan fav mutants that we had to guess who they were, wasting original X-men characters like Angel and The Beast (ok, I'll grant you Beast was good) and the movie's generally horrible pacing.|
Originally Posted by Divus
X3 made more money than X2. It is a success for the studios. Only the fanboys hate it (and hated it since Ratner signed on) and the hate did not affect the box office. If the mainstream movie going public likes FC, then expect more flashbacks.
|
It was rushed through production so it could be released before Superman Returns and it shows.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
Just like how Wolverine made lots of money, but was critically panned (for the most part) and the fans complained about it, so now, no more Magneto origin movie. And the Wolverine sequel is going to have a different director.|
Originally Posted by Divus
X3 made more money than X2. It is a success for the studios. Only the fanboys hate it (and hated it since Ratner signed on) and the hate did not affect the box office. If the mainstream movie going public likes FC, then expect more flashbacks.
|
Just because a movie makes lots of money doesn't mean it would be considered a "success" by the studio. Superman Returns made a ton of money, but failed to live up to expectations, both with its final take and with critical reception, so now there is talk about rebooting it once again. Also, remember, most money is made in the opening weekend, which is indicative of hype and goodwill from previous movies.
There is a reason why Fox went back to Singer. They want good word of mouth, like the first two X-movies, and not the bashing they got for the third movie.
For better or worse, studios don't only look at the final BO tally, but also what they expected, word of mouth, if the movie damaged the brand (Batman and Robin made lots of money, but WB wasn't rushing to do another Batman movie after that), and so on.
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
Quote:
It was also rebooting the franchise, which is a much smaller risk. Also, Singer isn't directing, he's only producing. If anything the director gets more leeway for doing such a good job with Kick *** and having an extremely tight production and release schedule. |
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Just like how Wolverine made lots of money, but was critically panned (for the most part) and the fans complained about it, so now, no more Magneto origin movie. And the Wolverine sequel is going to have a different director.
Just because a movie makes lots of money doesn't mean it would be considered a "success" by the studio. Superman Returns made a ton of money, but failed to live up to expectations, both with its final take and with critical reception, so now there is talk about rebooting it once again. Also, remember, most money is made in the opening weekend, which is indicative of hype and goodwill from previous movies. There is a reason why Fox went back to Singer. They want good word of mouth, like the first two X-movies, and not the bashing they got for the third movie. For better or worse, studios don't only look at the final BO tally, but also what they expected, word of mouth, if the movie damaged the brand (Batman and Robin made lots of money, but WB wasn't rushing to do another Batman movie after that). and so on. |
X3 did what it was supposed to do: make a lot of money and bookend that part of the franchise.
Wolverine underperformed X3, even though it and X3 had the same production budget, of course it's going to have changes made, but that's not the fans, that's the economics.
Arguably, Wolverine was also hurt by the massive leak of the film. But still, Wolverine underperformed X3 at the global box offfice by nearly a hundred million and nearly twenty five million on DVD sales.
Fans can pad a gross, but Fox has realized that the mainstream audience's interest is paramount to making something a success. If anything the new Scott Pilgrim thread indicates is that geeks and fans are nice, but if you cater to them your movie will take a big hit.
Quote:
X3 sucked and only really leached off the success of the first two films by Singer. If Singer hadn't done so well with those first two and set the franchise up for an epic third film, it wouldn't have done so well.|
Originally Posted by Divus
It was also rebooting the franchise, which is a much smaller risk. Also, Singer isn't directing, he's only producing. If anything the director gets more leeway for doing such a good job with Kick *** and having an extremely tight production and release schedule.
X3 did what it was supposed to do: make a lot of money and bookend that part of the franchise. Wolverine underperformed X3, even though it and X3 had the same production budget, of course it's going to have changes made, but that's not the fans, that's the economics. Arguably, Wolverine was also hurt by the massive leak of the film. But still, Wolverine underperformed X3 at the global box offfice by nearly a hundred million and nearly twenty five million on DVD sales. Fans can pad a gross, but Fox has realized that the mainstream audience's interest is paramount to making something a success. If anything the new Scott Pilgrim thread indicates is that geeks and fans are nice, but if you cater to them your movie will take a big hit. |
In some cases they actually do pay attention to more than just the box office. Everybody saw that Spider-Man 3 wasn't as good as the first two, and the experience put a bad taste in the mouth of the creative team and stars, so they had to reboot. People didn't like the Superbastard angle of Superman Returns and now they've sent Nolan over to attempt to right the ship.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Which is what I am saying, you can't just look at the BO and say "Oh, this movie was a success!" Or even look at the production budget versus the final BO. You said it yourself, a movie can "underperform." And I am not talking about the impact of geek fans, I am talking about the decision to continue a movie franchise in one direction over another goes beyond the final gross. X3 got poor word of mouth, poor critical reception. It had a huge opening weekend, but then again, as I have said, that is indicative of the popularity of previous movies and hype, and says little of the impact the current movie has on the franchise's health.
X3 made lots of money, but are we getting an X4? The movie didn't exactly close the book, what with the ending showing that both Magneto and Prof. X are living to fight another day. Storywise, there are still many tales to be told with that line. Instead, we are getting a prequel of sorts. Just like you said is happening to Wolverine due to it underperforming, changes had to be made to keep the X-franchise commercially viable, despite X3's huge haul. Just like what happened with Batman and Robin and then Batman Begins. Or now with the Spider-Man franchise. Fox decided that forcing Singer to choose between the X-franchise and Superman was a dumb decision, so they went back to him (and he went back to them, seeing that he probably won't be returning to direct a sequel to Supes). It is clear that Fox didn't think a sequel to X3 would do so well, despite it being the highest grossing sequel. That particular facet of the franchise is a little worn out.
Also, rebooting a franchise isn't necessarily safer. In many ways it is a bit riskier if the franchise is still realitively new. You risk losing the fanbase you built up with the previous movies by inserting new actors and rehashing previous plot points, like their origins. It may be less expensive though, with fresh actors and directors not demanding as much salary.
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
Quote:
Interesting to note that Raimi and Maguire were all ready to do a fourth film and I think even signed to do it, but then Sony pulled the plug and went with the reboot.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
X3 sucked and only really leached off the success of the first two films by Singer. If Singer hadn't done so well with those first two and set the franchise up for an epic third film, it wouldn't have done so well.
In some cases they actually do pay attention to more than just the box office. Everybody saw that Spider-Man 3 wasn't as good as the first two, and the experience put a bad taste in the mouth of the creative team and stars, so they had to reboot. People didn't like the Superbastard angle of Superman Returns and now they've sent Nolan over to attempt to right the ship. |
If the rumors were correct that Venom was thrust upon Raimi by the studio, I can see the talk about the fourth film focused on who gets to control the story. Raimi and Maguire probably said that Sam should have final say, pointing out that most fans and critics panned Eddie Brock, while Sony probably said that Venom drew in fans, that Sandman alone couldn't have carried the film, and any problems with the Venom character was Raimi's fault and the studio should still be able to dictate story points. Since the parties involved couldn't agree upon on who should control the story, they parted ways.
At least, that's my theory.
Also, back on the topic of X-franchise, remember that the first two X-films were highly regarded critically. A lot of critics* saw the X-Men movies as "serious" fare. I bet if Nolan/Batman hadn't come along and Singer would have stayed on for X3 and beyond, we would be hearing about how the X-franchise would be the superhero franchise competing at the Oscars. X3 sorta went back on that tone and was more blow-em-up.
*NOTE: I use the term "critics" to mean both reviewers and those who are insiders or human barometers in Hollywood. Are their opinions the only ones that count? Not at all. But they are certainly more knowledgable about the "How" and "What" of Hollywood than I.
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
Quote:
Watch the 60's Batman television series and tell me they didn't wear hats like that then.
|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Well damn. What is that, Russia? I think I've seen the hat in Russian imagery...
And this takes place in the 60s? I was just going off of the image with the soldier and barricade. Edit: And if this was the 60s, didn't that hat happen much earlier? |
The studio press pre-X3 indicated that it was going to be the last film before a reboot to get cheaper actors and use different characters. XMen First Class is just a cheap way to get familiar faces in without going a New Mutants route with a cast known only to comic fans.
And honestly, I am not judging whether or not X3 is "good" or not. I am saying that it is not a financial failure for an ensemble cast that was growing more famous and more expensive and "reboot" was not just written on the wall, but engraved there by Fox.
Vaughn does good work with (relatively) little money and that reputation got him First Class. It's funny that he rejected X3 before Ratner took it, but is doing this, still I don't hope it sucks as I want Vaughn's star to continue to ascend.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Did they? While walking through battlefields in war-torn Europe they wore ridiculous mink hats?
|
From the photo of Emma sitting in the Helicopter we can deduce this scene is in the 60s, war-torn and battlefields stopped being fashionable in Europe in 1944.
Quote:
Indeed.|
Originally Posted by Divus
And honestly, I am not judging whether or not X3 is "good" or not. I am saying that it is not a financial failure for an ensemble cast that was growing more famous and more expensive
|
X3 was not a financial failure. It DID make money.
AT THE COST OF MY SOUL!!!
The fur pillbox hat is very 60's. But the high spool heels on her go-go boots seem out of place - they're something out of the late 90's.
The point is that they are doing a reboot to fix everything that failed in the first three movies. And lets not gloss over the glaring short-comings of the first two movies or do we not remember Haley Berry's depiction of Storm?
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Quote:
Singer was smart enough to limit her with the expanded cast in the second film. Unfortunately for the third movie they could have just renamed it Wolverine & Storm. I mean what the **** business does Storm have getting into a fist fight? Gah.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
The point is that they are doing a reboot to fix everything that failed in the first three movies. And lets not gloss over the glaring short-comings of the first two movies or do we not remember Haley Berry's depiction of Storm?
|
Not to mention all the wasted opportunities with the cast and characters.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
Storm's shortcommings were written into the script. They're even more glaring in the novelizations of X1 and X2. Singer also gave Jean Grey the shaft. Even if Berry wasn't playing Storm, the character would have still be shafted. If there is one thing I liked about X3 is that the characters bloody used their powers, not correctly, but they still used their powers. |
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
The point is that they are doing a reboot to fix everything that failed in the first three movies. And lets not gloss over the glaring short-comings of the first two movies or do we not remember Haley Berry's depiction of Storm?
|
Storm and Jean Grey getting beaten around by Toad of all characters...ugh.
Singer didn't want Storm to be in the movies but the Studio and Marvel insisted and it shows. Singer's heroines are victims: Jean Grey, Lois Lane, Storm, Rogue, they are all crap compared to Mystique and Lex's snappy henchwoman. Only men and villains get to take control in his movies and it shows.
Oh, and in the comics, Storm gets into fist fights a lot. She pulled Marrow's heart out of her chest, stabbed Callisto in the heart with a dagger and beat down Crimson Commando, as well as getting into a mass cat fight with a harem of alien wives.
My biggest gripe about the X movies is that they are essentially Wolverine movies with guest stars and the characters I like are not just given short shrift, they are turned into powerless idiots and damsels in distress even though they are nothing like that in the comics.
Of course, comic wise after the last 10 years of the character assassination of Professor Xavier and the convenient amnesia concerning Emma Frost's role in the creation of Dark Phoenix, I've become inured to sudden bizzare changes in my X-Canon. The deaths in X3 didn't bother me because they're easily retconnable, especially people who died off panel.
Quote:
Gah, Haley Berry's ego is its own arch villain.
|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
The point is that they are doing a reboot to fix everything that failed in the first three movies. And lets not gloss over the glaring short-comings of the first two movies or do we not remember Haley Berry's depiction of Storm?
|
Quote:
As my brother once told me....everyone wants. Whether they get what they want or not depends on what's good for the project and everyone involved in it. You can only take what she, her publicist, or manager says at any point as posturing. The larger role given to her on X3 has more to say about the director, Brett Ratner, than about the actress.
|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Gah, Haley Berry's ego is its own arch villain.
|
Quote:
Er Storm and Jean still used their powers in the first one. Storm called down a ******* lightning bolt into a crowded building to knock Sabertooth through a wall. Jean used her telepathy more than her TK in the first one but that was switched for the sequel.|
Originally Posted by Divus
Storm's shortcommings were written into the script. They're even more glaring in the novelizations of X1 and X2. Singer also gave Jean Grey the shaft. Even if Berry wasn't playing Storm, the character would have still be shafted. If there is one thing I liked about X3 is that the characters bloody used their powers, not correctly, but they still used their powers.
Storm and Jean Grey getting beaten around by Toad of all characters...ugh. Singer didn't want Storm to be in the movies but the Studio and Marvel insisted and it shows. Singer's heroines are victims: Jean Grey, Lois Lane, Storm, Rogue, they are all crap compared to Mystique and Lex's snappy henchwoman. Only men and villains get to take control in his movies and it shows. |
Also Rogue kinda saved Wolverine at the end of the first movie and Jean saved everyone at the end of the second, so it's not like the female characters didn't get their moments. Not to mention Jean overpowering Cyclops.
Quote:
| Oh, and in the comics, Storm gets into fist fights a lot. She pulled Marrow's heart out of her chest, stabbed Callisto in the heart with a dagger and beat down Crimson Commando, as well as getting into a mass cat fight with a harem of alien wives. |
Quote:
|
My biggest gripe about the X movies is that they are essentially Wolverine movies with guest stars and the characters I like are not just given short shrift, they are turned into powerless idiots and damsels in distress even though they are nothing like that in the comics. Of course, comic wise after the last 10 years of the character assassination of Professor Xavier and the convenient amnesia concerning Emma Frost's role in the creation of Dark Phoenix, I've become inured to sudden bizzare changes in my X-Canon. The deaths in X3 didn't bother me because they're easily retconnable, especially people who died off panel. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
True true, but I was referring to an article that I read where the women of X-Men were being interviewed:|
Originally Posted by Innovator
As my brother once told me....everyone wants. Whether they get what they want or not depends on what's good for the project and everyone involved in it. You can only take what she, her publicist, or manager says at any point as posturing. The larger role given to her on X3 has more to say about the director, Brett Ratner, than about the actress.
|
Interviewer: Do any of you have any regrets about the series?
**After a couple of answers from the others**
Haley: I regret not being given more lines.
It was such a snobby thing to say. You're one of the most revered (At the time) women in the film industry starring in one of the most beloved franchises in American culture. And you didn't have enough lines. Entitlement. Your sense of it is strong.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.