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What is abuse in the case of travel? Going from point "A" to point "B" is the purpose, where is that abused? How it that justification for the long travel times?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
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That's the whole reason behind the long timers on the "Mission Teleport" and "Summon Teammates" powers. To prevent abuse. |
I have no problem with ambushes spawning near the door, it actually makes more sense from a story point of view.
I might suggest a new travel power pool called GRAPNELS. It would have the lowest endurance cost of all travel pools. It would consist of four powers: CLING, SWING, PULL, AND ENTANGLE. Cling would be a stealth power that allowed a character to fall onto all fours and cling to the sides of buildings and other vertical surfaces, as well as ceilings. It would be slow, however, but with a modest defense bonus. Swing would allow a character to throw a grapnel rope that would "stick" to a spot and allow a tethered superjump with a swinging motion. A double click would fix the rope end and a second double click fix other rope end which would stay in place for a few minutes, allowing a "tightrope" effect. Pull would send out an umbrella like grapnel that would unfold and then pull the character along by retracting the rope. It would be a slower version of teleport with about the same range, but with virtually no endurance cost. If the umbrella was in the air, the character would slowly float to surface and the umbrella then disappear. Entangle would be a pair of grapnels that could wrap around an enemy for a modestly powered "hold," and would be the only pool power to grant a hold power. Because this would be a more difficult travel power for the novice, it would be only unlocked once one level 50 has been obtained.
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As mentioned before, Cling, Swing, and Pull are either infeasible given the game engine, or would look amazingly silly when crossing zones like Independence Port, where there is nothing to latch onto. Also, this would allow for a pool to have two travel powers in it, which doesn't make that much sense.
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Originally Posted by davidzenyugen
I might suggest a new travel power pool called GRAPNELS. It would have the lowest endurance cost of all travel pools. It would consist of four powers: CLING, SWING, PULL, AND ENTANGLE. Cling would be a stealth power that allowed a character to fall onto all fours and cling to the sides of buildings and other vertical surfaces, as well as ceilings. It would be slow, however, but with a modest defense bonus. Swing would allow a character to throw a grapnel rope that would "stick" to a spot and allow a tethered superjump with a swinging motion. A double click would fix the rope end and a second double click fix other rope end which would stay in place for a few minutes, allowing a "tightrope" effect. Pull would send out an umbrella like grapnel that would unfold and then pull the character along by retracting the rope. It would be a slower version of teleport with about the same range, but with virtually no endurance cost. If the umbrella was in the air, the character would slowly float to surface and the umbrella then disappear. Entangle would be a pair of grapnels that could wrap around an enemy for a modestly powered "hold," and would be the only pool power to grant a hold power. Because this would be a more difficult travel power for the novice, it would be only unlocked once one level 50 has been obtained.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Long travel times? Seriously? |
Originally Posted by Remaugen
What is abuse in the case of travel? Going from point "A" to point "B" is the purpose, where is that abused? How it that justification for the long travel times?
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I can get from any point in Paragon to any other point in Paragon in 5 minutes or less, without using anything more than the travel powers we're given and the trains.
I once went from Atlas Park to Peregrine in 3 minutes, using Super Speed and the zone gates. I didn't even use any trains, and I did it just to see if I could. I went from Atlas to Founders Falls in 8 minutes, at level 11, using just the trains and Sprint, AND I survived the entire journey.
Compared to some other MMOs where you don't get things like Super Speed or Super Jump, where I have heard of people traveling for an HOUR to get to their quest destination, our travel times are negligible.
Long travel times, indeed. If you don't want to actually go anywhere in the city, just stay in AE, where you don't have to travel at all.
If there were no need to actually travel to your mission, there would be no point in even having city zones. I imagine the devs would kind of like people to actually SEE the game they work so hard on, rather than teleporting directly to every mission.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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1. I explained how they can be abused by using them to avoid the ambushes or even to lead high level ambushers to lower level players in the zone to grief-kill them and then use Mission Teleport to whisk themselves to safety. See unlike dragging a GM to grief lowbies an ambush doesn't need to be attacked to get it to follow you.|
Originally Posted by Remaugen
What is abuse in the case of travel? Going from point "A" to point "B" is the purpose, where is that abused? How it that justification for the long travel times?
I have no problem with ambushes spawning near the door, it actually makes more sense from a story point of view. |
2. What Claws said about "long travel times".
New Travel Power Pools!
Fire Flight
Tier 1: Scorching Strike: As Air Superiority, but remove the KD and change the damage to Fire.
Tier 2: Hover: As Hover, but with a slightly higher base speed and air friction similar to Fly.
Tier 3: Fire Flight: As Fly, with a Flaming Aura animation, slightly higher speed, and far less air friction.
Tier 4: Burn Patch: 5ft AoE "Drop" power. Creates a flaming pet power at the user's feet which mimics a LOW damage "Burn" power with less ticks and lower damage. Pet does not have Fly. Pet casts a small immob protection power on user.
Ice Slide Power Pool
Frozen Strike: Single Target smashing/cold attack, minor slow power.
Icy Blood: Auto power, resist slow effects slightly
Ice Slide: As "VIP Jetpack" with a higher forward movement speed, low air friction, and a constant jump height bonus roughly equivalent to SuperJump. The speed of this power should cap somewhere between flight and Superjump, probably around 64-65 MPH. The animation should be as the Prestige Power Slide" upper body position with a blue/white cloud at the feet trailed by a blue and white "Superspeed" trail.
Northern Wind: PBAoE Toggle, similar to Whirlwind with a self -Speed and a Kd and Slow effect rather than KB
-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
New Travel Power Pools!
Fire Flight Tier 1: Scorching Strike: As Air Superiority, but remove the KD and change the damage to Fire. Tier 2: Hover: As Hover, but with a slightly higher base speed and air friction similar to Fly. Tier 3: Fire Flight: As Fly, with a Flaming Aura animation, slightly higher speed, and far less air friction. Tier 4: Burn Patch: 5ft AoE "Drop" power. Creates a flaming pet power at the user's feet which mimics a LOW damage "Burn" power with less ticks and lower damage. Pet does not have Fly. Pet casts a small immob protection power on user. |
There is no reason to make new powers to get effects that already exist in the game. Simply changing costumes to one with a fiery body aura like Omega and you can have fiery flight when you turn fly on.
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Ice Slide Power Pool Frozen Strike: Single Target smashing/cold attack, minor slow power. Icy Blood: Auto power, resist slow effects slightly Ice Slide: As "VIP Jetpack" with a higher forward movement speed, low air friction, and a constant jump height bonus roughly equivalent to SuperJump. The speed of this power should cap somewhere between flight and Superjump, probably around 64-65 MPH. The animation should be as the Prestige Power Slide" upper body position with a blue/white cloud at the feet trailed by a blue and white "Superspeed" trail. Northern Wind: PBAoE Toggle, similar to Whirlwind with a self -Speed and a Kd and Slow effect rather than KB -Rachel- |
And all we need for this is an Ice Slide costume recipe. The animations already exist in game and are being used on the Power Slide sprint power. Just use them for fly animations.
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This comes down to "if you don't like don't take it"|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Sure there are sets that can be argued to have flying powers. There are alot, around 1/2 the sets that are hard to rationalize like alot of melee sets. Sets like poison, dark, etc. unless you start changing the original concept alot. That what I'm saying it'll be cool to have more options.
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power sets aren't a base concept, they're methods expressing a base concept
dark melee for example I have seen rationalized as the following:
the powers of a vampiric human-plant hybrid (a DE who didn't go insane)
anti-matter producing gloves
training in pressure points and dim mak
a mix of martial arts and smoke magic
and likewise, there is nothing on any of those that says you can't fly
if I'm a demonic creature who uses dark-melee, there's nothing to say I can't have wings, for example, or just levitate
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| I'd have no problem is there was 'teleport combat', if fact I'd only choose teleport as a travel power for that spec. The whole point is a character in game somehow can teleport at will in addition to his completely unrelated powers,and only ever uses in one instance seems weird. |
Martial Arts or (probably more appropriate) Dual Blades (rapier and main gauche)
Super Reflexes
Stealth Pool
Teleport Pool
lots of characters have seemingly unrelated powers in comics, the idea of a character having "one power" that is the source of all their other abilities is not the only way to do things
Another example of a character where their combat "powers" are unrelated to their mutant powers: Angel
his mutant power is that he has wings, period...that's it
he flies
combat wise, he would be something like martial arts or super strength to represent martial arts ability, with super reflexes on top...both supposed to represent training
concept does not bend to powerset
powerset bends to concept
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Fair enough. Though I kind of like the idea of having multiple elemental Travel pools so people can hone closer to concept. Plus it can help to circumvent some of the need for travel power customization. Add in a neat change to the travel power (Less air-friction) and you get a slightly different power in a very different set.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
There is no reason to make new powers to get effects that already exist in the game. Simply changing costumes to one with a fiery body aura like Omega and you can have fiery flight when you turn fly on.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And all we need for this is an Ice Slide costume recipe. The animations already exist in game and are being used on the Power Slide sprint power. Just use them for fly animations.
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Maybe in the morning... well... later today... I'll look into writing up electric and some others...
-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Fair enough. Though I kind of like the idea of having multiple elemental Travel pools so people can hone closer to concept. Plus it can help to circumvent some of the need for travel power customization. Add in a neat change to the travel power (Less air-friction) and you get a slightly different power in a very different set.
Strongly disagree. The mechanics of this power are different than any other travel power. It's similar to a cross between Super Jump and Flight without having the full speed of one, or the full control/versatility of the other. Maybe in the morning... well... later today... I'll look into writing up electric and some others... -Rachel- |
I'd much rather have costume pieces/recipes that customize the basic travel powers than being forced to choose between 6 variations of Fly, SJ, SS, TP.
Right now I can fly like Superman on one costume, then if I get exposed to cosmic radiation I can switch costumes and FLAME ON! like the Human Torch. One day I may drink a magic potion and grow wings, or I might decide to zoom around using the Rocket Boots like Iron Man.
One character, 4 different styles of flight, 1 travel power.
Now I'm not against totally new travel powers, I'd just rather see any variations of existing travel powers be done as cosmetic.
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Okay, I'm sure it's only because it was late for you but.... What? Forbin referenced Power Slide, a version of Sprint you get from.... some box set of CoH or other (had to be before the GvE box), and you referenced Ninja Run.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Strongly disagree. The mechanics of this power are different than any other travel power. It's similar to a cross between Super Jump and Flight without having the full speed of one, or the full control/versatility of the other.
Maybe in the morning... well... later today... I'll look into writing up electric and some others... -Rachel- |
I just bought the Pack with Ninja Run and really like it. Why not make a slightly different version of Ninja Run in the game as a new travel pool, with the added benefit of wall crawling, as others have suggested?
You could run fast to your mission, leap to the building, and then run up the wall to the roof. That would be cool as an "Acrobatics" Pool.
Please try my arcs:
Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
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Because the game's collision engine doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by GGG247
I just bought the Pack with Ninja Run and really like it. Why not make a slightly different version of Ninja Run in the game as a new travel pool, with the added benefit of wall crawling, as others have suggested?
You could run fast to your mission, leap to the building, and then run up the wall to the roof. That would be cool as an "Acrobatics" Pool. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Powerslide came with the CoH DvD Collectors Edition. Basically the power looks like there is a glow at your feet and your character stands still and slides across the ground as if you were standing on something like a surfboard.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Right
Okay, I'm sure it's only because it was late for you but.... What? Forbin referenced Power Slide, a version of Sprint you get from.... some box set of CoH or other (had to be before the GvE box), and you referenced Ninja Run.
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I just think that standing animation could be reused on a fly power where the character would be standing on things like a hoverdisc, surfboard, sheet of ice, floating rock, magic carpet . . . you get the idea. Just get rid of the glow aura at the feet or change it to something more appropriate for the desired animation. A sheet of ice could have snowflakes instead of a glow.
Ninja Run for anyone that doesn't know comes with the purchase of the Martial Arts booster pack. And it's a very nice power.
Ninja run combined with hurdle double slotted with single origins and swift makes a most serviceable "Epic Ninja Run!" Several people who have tried this swear by it.
In defense of my idea of a Grapnels travel power, I am aware that the developers have left it out for good reason, as it presents many problems. Nevertheless, cling, swing, pull and entangle are staples of the superhero genre. Zorro, Tarzan, Batman, Spiderman, Green Arrow, Daredevil, and many others make use of this travel power to really cool effect. With the release of Going Rogue we are seeing an influx of new players who may puzzle at its absence. For vets, of course, its obvious that the City is not designed for it. But NCSOFT has shown great creativity in getting around limitations! If the demand is there, or if the competition gets some traction out of having it and CoH doesn't, I could see them finding a way to make the animations really cool and revamping the engine to support it (as they did to such great effect with the customizeable powers!). As I envision it, cling would add a fun wrinkle in PVP as well as solo play as a stealth character. Swing would give a fast travel power from levels 6-14, although only in zones with high buildings around. To support it, some high tension wires, cell towers, or other high structures could be added. The "tightrope" effect could be used to help allies as well move around, or used creatively by some players for a "tripwire." Pull, on the other hand, would be the most problematic, slow in animation time of necessity, its only real advantage would be very low endurance useage. The unfolding of an "umbrella" to pull the toon along would be able to work in air, water, or on the ground to get around some of the animation difficulties. But I envision characters taking it primarily to get to entangle, a nifty hold!
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Actually, that piece of text was a reply, to a piece of text which was a reply, to the Ice Slide powerset I suggested.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Right
Okay, I'm sure it's only because it was late for you but.... What? Forbin referenced Power Slide, a version of Sprint you get from.... some box set of CoH or other (had to be before the GvE box), and you referenced Ninja Run.
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Using a high jump modifier which is constantly active, you can keep the character from taking -some- falling damage. With the "Fly mag 1 while spacebar is held down" you can "Double jump" while still in the air (Like the VIP Jump Jet from the Good vs. Evil edition). With less forward speed than SuperJump and More forward speed than Fly, you create a power which lets you ride a roller-coaster through the air, up and down up and down, without ever touching the ground. Less air-friction, like the "Fly" power versus "Hover" means you wind up sliding through the air in turns, or when you try to stop in mid-air. It also makes hovering in place completely impossible.
That is nothing like Ninja-Run.
-Rachel-
You are totally right! Sorry about that.
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Yep, you could also exceed the granularity of the game engine and accidentally run through walls (I've seen this kind of thing happen in various Elder Scrolls games, for example).
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Super Speed's cap is there because it's pushing the boundaries of how fast the game can render the surroundings. If SS's speed cap was removed, you could run into walls that you couldn't see, or fall off of a cliff that you didn't know was there, or worse, end up falling off the map completely.
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Castle Rat:|
Originally Posted by davidzenyugen
Ninja run combined with hurdle double slotted with single origins and swift makes a most serviceable "Epic Ninja Run!" Several people who have tried this swear by it.
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Swift (3 slot) + Hurdle (3 slot) + Quickness (3 slot) + Sprint (3 slot) = about 50 mph unsuppressed in PvE
+ Ninja Run = 70 mph (suppressible to 50 mph)
+ Elude = Speed Cap (suppressible to 70 mph)
It is SOOO fun to pass up people that took super speed
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Anyway, I'd like to see new animations/power customizations for the travel powers we do have
the slide surface for superspeed, for example, it would be Iceman, but it would be Frozone
Teleport seems the most ripe for this, I've seen this power used to duplicate tunneling in the past, so an "explode from dirt" version of the animation....or a burst in flames....or a step sideways
One thing (that is probably way to specific) is something I've considered with one of my characters: the Undevoured Blood Rose...have her blow a seed in one direction, leave the current body to wither behind her and have a new one grow up out of the seed....disturbing, maybe, but interesting
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Vertical movement options with SS.... Waste one power selection and take HOVER from the flight pool ( I know plenty of people that have done this). Depending on which side your on (Red/Blue) run a Mayhem/Safeguard between 5-15 and grab you raptor and jump packs (I have 50 level characters that still have not used these 2 up completely). Blue side hit the Shadow Shard and purchase a jet pack for 10,000 INF on the RED side head to Grandville and do the same thing. Day jobs award an accolade that includes a jet pack. This doesn't even add in special missions that award them as temp powers like the one they give you on Positron's TF part 2 that lasts an hour (Blue Side) or the pack you can steal from the Rocketmen around level 10-15 (RedSide) and of course you can always go to the web site and buy one that lasts for I believe 30 days.. with so many FREE ones available out there this is an option I have never even considered using.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
new animation for sj? i might be able to get behind that.
ss is useless? lmao. if you actually need to get somewhere that ss can't get you to you can buy temp powers that will give you vertical movement cheaply. many super heroes fly. and last time i checked, super man wasn't magic. just because you think something is wierd is not going to make the devs change it. so, the only thing i think i might be able to get behind is a new animation for sj. good luck getting anyone to agree that the other powers are broke. even sj isn't broke. |
Flight RP explanations... Mutation: Add wings to the back of said character and simply say that in addition to other changes in your body the character developed the ability for flight (THIS would not be the first ever Mutant in Comic Book lore that had the ability). Tech/Sci: Special implants injected into character's body allow it to become lighter than air when desired and fly. Magic: Obviously easy... just cast a flight spell. Natural: After years of study with a Grand Master the character learned to control his/her body and levitate and fly. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS .. Buy some rocket boots and there's you explanation.
I don't really know much about SJ since I have no characters that ever took it so I won't comment on the need to revamp the animation used. Teleport like flight can be explained in so many different ways for RP purposes and is probably the fastest method of travel in game.
Then of course there is one final way to explain ANY travel power...
"It's a game and THIS is how I like to get from point A to point B. I don't care what it looks like or if it fits some preconceived notion anyone has about my characters I just want to get to the next mission and battle the bad guys, earn XP/IN, collect salvage and recipes and have fun. Now do you want my 50 level SoA Crab on your team or not? Cause I can always solo or find another team." LOL
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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You know, it may not make since when used out side of places with skyscrappers, but then some people might think superjumping through water looks just as stupid.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Some people mention Swinging but many of us agree that it looks absolutely stupid when it's being used outside of a zone with skyscrapers.
Others mention Wallcrawling but it really isn't a travel power, and I don't think it's possible with our game engine. We aren't getting vehicles for reasons discussed in other threads. |
Or that making a D&D looking toon for a city set in modern times, that's a superhero genre and not D&D fantasy genre looks stupid.
Point...it's in the eye of the beholder. And I've seen what a swingline can look like without skyscrappers around, and it's not all that bad at all, since it pretty much goes off screen.
However, if they add a swingline set, I'd say make it like ninja run...something that comes with a booster.
However, if they do any more booster travel powers, I want to be able to slot it! Ninja Run should be slottable. It's not that game breaking! In fact, if I do slot it, it means I'm losing slots for powers in other areas.
Not that I'm endorsing the devs making packs for new powers or power sets all the time now.
As for other animations...I'd love to see Fly get an animation of ice slides and standing on a rock flying around.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Sorry I still don't see the abuse. You can already avoid an ambush by just sprinting away. Still though, the obvious answer is to spawn ambushes at the mission door where they will be harder to avoid. This also solves most of the problems for ambushers attacking low level players as they would tend to be more zone specific as relates to the mission. As it is now you can have a spawn of level 40s showing up near the contact in Kings Row or Bricks. It actually makes much more sense to have them at the mission door rather than running across the map passing by low level toons.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
1. I explained how they can be abused by using them to avoid the ambushes or even to lead high level ambushers to lower level players in the zone to grief-kill them and then use Mission Teleport to whisk themselves to safety. See unlike dragging a GM to grief lowbies an ambush doesn't need to be attacked to get it to follow you.
2. What Claws said about "long travel times". |
It's a Win/Win as I see it. The ambush is more likely to find the intended target and yes I do think that 3-5 minutes is a long travel time, specially with multiple zone screen changes which can sometimes drag on for minutes by themselves.
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Wow, it's a good thing you didn't play the game 5 years ago. You would have ragequit during the first week if you think it takes a long time to get anywhere now. |
Originally Posted by Remaugen
yes I do think that 3-5 minutes is a long travel time, specially with multiple zone screen changes which can sometimes drag on for minutes by themselves. |
Used to be a contact would send you from Talos Island to Atlas Park, and you'd have to go from Atlas Park all the way back to Talos to get the next mission, which was in Kings Row.
And you had to run back to that contact every time you wanted to turn a mission in, because they wouldn't give out their number until you'd ran half the arc, as opposed to 2-3 missions into it like now.
Oh, and there were no such things as temp jetpacks, or jump packs, or Ninja Run at level 4. There weren't Ouroboros portals. If you were under level 14 and weren't Kinetics or a Kheldian, it was Sprint or nothing.
Players now have it EASY compared to how it used to be. And you're complaining that 3-5 minutes is too long to spend traveling to a mission.
They have done so many things to make things easier to get around in this game, and people are asking to be able to teleport directly to every single mission.
Tell me, if you could teleport to every mission you ever get, what is the point of there even being anything outside at all? You could make the entire game consist of a single door next to Wentworth's and a single contact that gives you all your missions, and the players who whine that 3 minutes is too long to travel will be perfectly happy.
Oh, wait, they already did that, it's called AE.
Can I ask one more question? How long did you play for before you knew how to get to Kings Row?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
For example: Fifth power in the set could be Map Travel. Click on a spot on the map and Run/Jump/Fly/Teleport there with a single screen change.
Sixth power in the set would be Zone Travel. Activating this power would allow the toon to Run/Jump/Fly/Teleport to zones they have been too before, bypassing other travel methods. It would have to be logical, not too Praetoria or Cimerora for example. This would allow toons that do not have base access or toons with small bases the ability to zone without a lot of convoluted screen changes. This would also seriously benefit Rogues & Villians who are unable to add all the beacons to their existing bases.
No one would have to take these powers of course, just as no one has to take any travel power at all. Sprint and/or Ninja Run are fine for many folks.
Yes we already have the mission teleport but it has a huge recharge time and honestly crossing several zones to get to a mission is just annoying. . .
Uhm no.
Some missions spawn ambushes that are supposed to be dealt with. The only way I can see the devs implementing your travel power ideas in the game would be if the ambushes immediately spawned at your destination when you activated the travel power so they'd be waiting to open fire on you as soon as you arrived.
That's the whole reason behind the long timers on the "Mission Teleport" and "Summon Teammates" powers. To prevent abuse.