Star Wars's 3rd Alliance: Heroic Empire Citizens
By
BackFire,
Posted on: 2010-09-02 17:49 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Kyle Katarn of the Jedi Knight games might fit. He was an Imperial Officer who switched sides later. Another character would Crix Nadine. He was part of the Empire, but defected to the Rebels with the plans for the second Death Star. There's also that female Imperial Remnant Admiral in the later books. She's kind of an Imperial Responsibility character... even if her Empire starts and ends with the three ships she's flying around in. Also Grand Admiral Thrawn. Nice guy, likes art, military genius, not really into the Empire's policies, mainly because they're pretty racists against non-humans. Something he, with his bright blue skin and eyes that glow red likely had run into once too many.
You could possibly make an argument for Darth Vader. "Join me and together we shall bring order to the galaxy." If he meant that, he might not be in it for the evil. (And there is that What If? where Darth Vader defects and returns to the light side of the Force... with pastel-white armor and all. Now we will never speak of that again.) Darth Vader might just be a guy who wanted order, and now he's stuck too deep in this whole Evil Empire thing to back out. At least it's what he thinks.
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are we talking someone that supported the concept of a single Empire? that a unified one galactic government was a good thing as opposed to the chaos that existed during the Old Republic?
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This, yes, but who did so with the intent of being a good person. The implication in the movies is that once the empire actually started, everyone in it was EVIL!!!11111|
Originally Posted by Veritech
are we talking someone that supported the concept of a single Empire? that a unified one galactic government was a good thing as opposed to the chaos that existed during the Old Republic?
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A monarchy has its flaws, especially when run by an evil dictator. After Going Rogue, though, I'm uncomfortable accepting the idea that not one person didn't say "The intent was good, but the execution flawed. Let's work with the system, rather than against it."
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that's because the movies were supposed to be more or less straightforward white hats vs. the black hats storytelling. empire bad, rebellion good. to go any deeper you really have to get into the Expanded universe material, and even the folks who support the Empire and do so because they believe the Empire to be the just and righteous government as opposed to these uppity rebels still are willing to do some pretty dark and dirty things if they have to. two off the top of my head are Baron Fel and Mara Jade. Both truly supported the Empire and belived that it was the best way to run the galaxy. Fel turned when he realized the Empire he supported died with the Empire, and Jade didn't really turn until years after that.
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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
This, yes, but who did so with the intent of being a good person. The implication in the movies is that once the empire actually started, everyone in it was EVIL!!!11111
A monarchy has its flaws, especially when run by an evil dictator. After Going Rogue, though, I'm uncomfortable accepting the idea that not one person didn't say "The intent was good, but the execution flawed. Let's work with the system, rather than against it." |
Most of the Republic/Imperial Senate might fall into that category. Granted, the majority were duped or manipulated into thinking the Empire was a good idea, but I'm sure the vast majority genuinely did want what was best for the Galaxy at large. The few who knew what was really going on were either in on Palpatine's plan early on or, like Bail Organa, had to play along in order to keep their positions and work behind the scenes.
As we saw in ANH, the Emperor dispensed with the Senate when the Death Star was completed, but I imagine a fair few of those displaced Senators did try to make it work for a time.
There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Ummm, did you see Revenge of the Sith? The entire cast was either duped into supporting the empire or in it from the beginning in one way or another. If memory serves Yoda was the only one that had misgivings about it (I haven't seen it in a couple of years), but he still fought alongside stormtroopers. In fact, the most hated character in all of the Star Wars universe (Jar Jar Binks) was the puppet that Palpatine used to shut down the Senate.
back when i played that game that shall not be mentioned, this was similar to my mon calamari character, while he keenly was aware of the racism inherent in the empire, he also saw that they brought order(through censored media, he was less informed on how they enforced order). he was very much in my mind duirng some discussion in gr beat about how a good character coudl be a loyalist
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I did see revenge of the sith many times. The entire senate, or many of them enough to make "Thunderous Applause" as described in the movie, support the creation of the empire. So to the original question, yes i personally believe that with thousands of star systems being represented in the senate, not all of them must have been in on the plan, infact i think they pretty much show the majority of the envolved systems as being the leaders of the sepratist armies. So many of those senators you could say supported the creation of the empire on the basis of the merits of creating a safe and stable society to live within.|
Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
Ummm, did you see Revenge of the Sith? The entire cast was either duped into supporting the empire or in it from the beginning in one way or another. If memory serves Yoda was the only one that had misgivings about it (I haven't seen it in a couple of years), but he still fought alongside stormtroopers. In fact, the most hated character in all of the Star Wars universe (Jar Jar Binks) was the puppet that Palpatine used to shut down the Senate.
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It was close to 20 years after this that the senate was finally totally abolished and done away with. Its mentioned in a new hope. Now granted its made to sound like teh senators have become nothing more then figure heads in that time, but still were serving the purpose of giving off appearances of being the voices of the people.
Jar jar was not used to shut down the senate. He was used to make a motion to have palpatine be given the power to raise an army for the republic thats it. It was a political hot bed issue that no one wanted to introduce, so he told him that Amidala would have done it had she not been running for her life at the time and Jar jar did it in her place.
I think the thing to remember for good or bad is that alot of people dont really care what kinda government they live under unless it directs to them specificly to quality of life. Not many of us are reporters or religous leaders where freedom of speech or religion are an everyday reliance to do our jobs. So honestly i could really see alot of the population of the republic just saying "Oh well, not like im still not gonna be selling speeder parts on tatooine be it republic or empire."
In the Empire comic, there was a character named Lt. Sunber who was a decent officer who wanted to do good. At least in his early appearances, when Empire became Rebellion things got awkward.
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Wasn't Mara Jade someone who believed in the ideals of the Empire until she fell for that rascally Luke? She was never evil, didn't use the dark side of the force, and genuinely thought she was making the galaxy a better place.
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Mara came off to me as more of a character loyal to Palpatine more then the empire. She would have followed whatever he said. If I recall she was an orphan and when Palpatine found her he kinda gave her life direction and she followed that with her loyalty. Her desire to kill Luke originally was more based on for years she had felt that she failed the emporer by not stopping luke on the sail barge when she had the chance to, then later he goes on to turn vader who ends up killing the emporer.
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Originally Posted by BackFire
Wasn't Mara Jade someone who believed in the ideals of the Empire until she fell for that rascally Luke? She was never evil, didn't use the dark side of the force, and genuinely thought she was making the galaxy a better place.
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Also the troopers from Allegiance were from from 'evil.' And when they saw the direction the Empire was heading they went rogue.
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Annakin was lost the moment he performed ethnic cleansing on that village of Tusken Raiders purely out of revenge and anger.
Plus the "sunflower incident," he was never "Responsibility Empire." He killed the kids while the Senate was applauding Palpatine's unveiling of his shiny new Empire.
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That sounds rather Praetorian |
Originally Posted by Veritech
are we talking someone that supported the concept of a single Empire? that a unified one galactic government was a good thing as opposed to the chaos that existed during the Old Republic?
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@Golden Girl
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...and?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That sounds rather Praetorian
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Well, there seems to be a pretty big overlap between the "I wanted the Empire to win" types and the "I support Tyrant" types |
Originally Posted by Veritech
...and?
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@Golden Girl
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There's also the "I support the Rebels, but man did the Empire get the coolest toys." faction. Seriously, they get the coolest looking spaceships, the moon sized battle station and they even have those neat walkers.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, there seems to be a pretty big overlap between the "I wanted the Empire to win" types and the "I support Tyrant" types
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The Empire was cool. Evil, but cool.
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And if Emperor Cole would take some anti-paranoia medication and mind his own dimensional business, it might not be a completely horrible place to live.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, there seems to be a pretty big overlap between the "I wanted the Empire to win" types and the "I support Tyrant" types
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Similarly if Palpatine eased back on the ruling through large compensatory phallic shapes and focused on good policy, he might not have such a large rebellion on his hands...
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Hey, Golden Girl?
The first two words in my post where "Going Rogue". I made the connection in the OP.
Going Rogue just caused me to realize that not once in the entire Star Wars six-ology do we hear from "Responsibility Empire" citizens. We don't hear from anyone that genuinely wants what's best for the galaxy and believes that a unified state would accomplish that.
Yes, Anakin Skywalker starts out that way and gets corrupted, but never once do we see someone that genuinely stays Responsibility.
I'd even settle for someone that was Responsibility briefly and then quit once they saw what it was. It seems that no character truly considers the idea of a unified galaxy as a great idea once it got underway.
So...
Is this a character that was lacking from the story, or was the Empire that evil that no one would even consider it?