Could a kind sould please explain soft cap and hard cap to me?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-08-26 17:35 in Player Questions
When people say "softcap" on the forums, they usually mean "defensive soft cap to a given type/position".
The Defense Soft Cap is when you reach a high enough number of defense that, barring defense debuffs or to-hit buffed enemies, you are effectively capped, and raising your defense beyond that point will not attain further benefit. The defense soft cap for players is 45%
The Hard Cap is the maximum number that the game allows you to reach in any given stat. The defense Hard Cap is somewhere along the lines of 200%, and there's usually not much point in getting such a high defense number
For more information about the defense softcap, I recomend reading Dechs Kaison's guide to defense
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Most people mean "45% defense" when they talk about soft capping, but technically speaking the defense soft cap is only 45% for things with base 50% chance to hit you. To soft cap a pet or turret, which has base 75% chance to hit, you technically need 70% defense. But most people ignore that situation and refer primarily to the act of building or reaching 45% defense, which corresponds to the base 50% chance to hit that almost everything except pets and turrets (and technically players in PvE) have.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
When people say "softcap" on the forums, they usually mean "defensive soft cap to a given type/position".
The Defense Soft Cap is when you reach a high enough number of defense that, barring defense debuffs or to-hit buffed enemies, you are effectively capped, and raising your defense beyond that point will not attain further benefit. The defense soft cap is 45% |
MT_Head:
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| Do they vary with each power? |
Theoretically speaking, you could be soft-capped to Ranged_attack, but not Melee_attack because your ranged_attack defense was 45% but your Melee_attack defense was only 20%, say.
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"Soft cap" (aka 45% def) is a term that applies to players in PvE. Pets and turrents aren't players.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Most people mean "45% defense" when they talk about soft capping, but technically speaking the defense soft cap is only 45% for things with base 50% chance to hit you. To soft cap a pet or turret, which has base 75% chance to hit, you technically need 70% defense. But most people ignore that situation and refer primarily to the act of building or reaching 45% defense, which corresponds to the base 50% chance to hit that almost everything except pets and turrets (and technically players in PvE) have.
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He's referring to the Pet and Turret's base chance to hit you, not your base chance to hit them, so he IS talking a Player's defense.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
"Soft cap" (aka 45% def) is a term that applies to players in PvE. Pets and turrents aren't players.
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- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Yes. Take a soft-capped SR or Shields character, find a Malta mission, and go stand in front of an engineer. Watch how often the spawned turret hits you. This still surprises people when they actually perform this test.
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Originally Posted by Garielle
He's referring to the Pet and Turret's base chance to hit you, not your base chance to hit them, so he IS talking a Player's defense.
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Do you have a link, sir?
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Originally Posted by Silverado
When people say "softcap" on the forums, they usually mean "defensive soft cap to a given type/position".
The Defense Soft Cap is when you reach a high enough number of defense that, barring defense debuffs or to-hit buffed enemies, you are effectively capped, and raising your defense beyond that point will not attain further benefit. The defense soft cap for players is 45% The Hard Cap is the maximum number that the game allows you to reach in any given stat. The defense Hard Cap is somewhere along the lines of 200%, and there's usually not much point in getting such a high defense number For more information about the defense softcap, I recomend reading Dechs Kaison's guide to defense |
If you find one of his posts there's a link in his signature. Or you can search his name and find a post that way.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
FYI, there are also other kinds of 'caps', or limits to how much a particular power attribute can be enhanced, either through a player's build, or outside buffs. And most of these *do* vary by AT; for instance, the damage cap is 775% for brutes, and either 400% or 500% for other ATs. Damage resistance, OTOH, caps at 90% for Tanks and either 85% or 75% for other ATs.
More info here:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
Whether the various caps are actually achievable under normal circumstances is highly variable.
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LMAO......Funny!
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Soft Cap:
 Hard Cap:  |
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Or I can show up in the topic and put my sig here. Does that work?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If you find one of his posts there's a link in his signature. Or you can search his name and find a post that way.
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Sorry I'm late.
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Yeah, good thing I said that "The Defense Soft Cap is when you reach a high enough number of defense that, barring defense debuffs or to-hit buffed enemies, you are effectively capped, and raising your defense beyond that point will not attain further benefit. The defense soft cap for players is 45%" in order to circumvent obnoxious nitpicking.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Yes. Take a soft-capped SR or Shields character, find a Malta mission, and go stand in front of an engineer. Watch how often the spawned turret hits you. This still surprises people when they actually perform this test.
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Well, to be overly technical in a hopefully less than obnoxious way, turrets and pets don't have to-hit buffs. They just have a 75% base chance to hit.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
Yeah, good thing I said that "The Defense Soft Cap is when you reach a high enough number of defense that, barring defense debuffs or to-hit buffed enemies, you are effectively capped, and raising your defense beyond that point will not attain further benefit. The defense soft cap for players is 45%" in order to circumvent obnoxious nitpicking.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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As a more general statement:
There are "caps" for nearly everything: resistance, HP, etc.
A blaster's HP are hardcapped at about 133% of base. So if you have +20% from Accolades, and +6% from IO's, that's 126%. If someone throws Frostwork on you, you will get 7% more HP and no more. If six people stack Frostwork on you, you will still not go above 133% of base HP. You just won't.
Different AT's have different hardcaps for HP- I don't remember any of the specifics.
Resistance is also hardcapped- 75% for almost every AT. (90% for tanks, 80 or 85% for kheldians; other exceptions exist.) So whether you take four large orange inspirations or nineteen, you will still be at 75% resistance to everything.
There is also a hardcap for damage, depending on AT again. "Default" is 400% (the 100% you start with +300%), with higher caps for Blasters (500%), Scrappers (500%), Brutes (675% ? They just changed it), and some other exceptions.
Enhancements give an interesting softcap. One SO gives you 33.3%, two give you 66.6%, three give you about 95%. After that they become about six times less effective- four gives you 100%, five gives you 105%, six gives you 110%. Bonuses that are NOT directly from enhancements are not effected by this: if you're at 95% damage and you munch a small red insp you will get the full 25% damage, bringing you to 120%. Some enhancements are on a 20/40/57% schedule, mostly defensive powers.
So those are most of the caps you're likely to run into.
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It's still a "buffed" To-Hit chance. Wether its through a power or through design, it's still above the normal, therefore buffed.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, to be overly technical in a hopefully less than obnoxious way, turrets and pets don't have to-hit buffs. They just have a 75% base chance to hit.
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The point still remains, the softcap is widely refered to as such because it will cap your effective defense against 95% of the game.
No, it's "Buffed" if something buffs it.
If Nova has a 140% To Hit modifier, that's not buffed. If I hit Build Up, that buffs the to-hit chance.
You can try to make the language mean what you choose it to mean, but I don't think it will work...
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Even if I was insufferable enough to engage in a pointless debate about semantics, you'd still be wrong because believe it or not, certain words can be used in a different context than usual. Elements in game mechanics can be "buffed" and it doesn't exclusively refer to applying a power on something. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
No, it's "Buffed" if something buffs it.
If Nova has a 140% To Hit modifier, that's not buffed. If I hit Build Up, that buffs the to-hit chance. You can try to make the language mean what you choose it to mean, but I don't think it will work... |
Didn't Fiery Aura and Martial Arts get buffed recently? what do you mean it wasn't done through a permanent power that increases your to-hit and damage
Context 1 - Obnoxious Nitpicking 0
ITT: Silverado gets pissy because Arcanaville decided to expand on something he didn't point out, and is taking it super personally.
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Wrong. It *IS* normal - for pets and turrets. The word 'buff' has a specific meaning in this game. If you're going to use a word like 'buffed', you need to apply it correctly.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
It's still a "buffed" To-Hit chance. Wether its through a power or through design, it's still above the normal, therefore buffed.
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Odd, I would count that as an example of you being wrong... An external source made a one-time change to a power, aka, it got buffed. Turrets do not have external sources making them hit more, they just DO. AKA, they are not to-hit buffed, they just have a better chance. Give it up. Arcana was right, and it doesn't really matter.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
Even if I was insufferable enough to engage in a pointless debate about semantics, you'd still be wrong because believe it or not, certain words can be used in a different context than usual. Elements in game mechanics can be "buffed" and it doesn't exclusively refer to applying a power on something.
Didn't Fiery Aura and Martial Arts get buffed recently? what do you mean it wasn't done through a permanent power that increases your to-hit and damage Context 1 - Obnoxious Nitpicking 0 |
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Pets and Turrets don't have a permanent power, or a buff, that increases their tohit. They literally have higher tohit. 75% base it normal for them. They are a relic from the days when everything had different base tohit, and there was no such thing as "normal tohit."|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Even if I was insufferable enough to engage in a pointless debate about semantics, you'd still be wrong because believe it or not, certain words can be used in a different context than usual. Elements in game mechanics can be "buffed" and it doesn't exclusively refer to applying a power on something.
Didn't Fiery Aura and Martial Arts get buffed recently? what do you mean it wasn't done through a permanent power that increases your to-hit and damage Context 1 - Obnoxious Nitpicking 0 |
I mention it these days because people keep forgetting they have higher base tohit, and they are not rare. Malta turrets are not rare in those levels, for example. And with AE missions, pets aren't always rare either, not just because you see more controllers and masterminds, but because custom critters tend to use more powers that invoke pseudo-pets. People still ask questions regularly about why things can sometimes reliably hit through their soft-capped defenses even when they are not debuffed, so its important to remind people when that can occur. And the canonical answer is: tohit buffs, and things with normally higher tohit**.
Pets and turrets were never buffed. Historically, their tohit was actually reduced from their originally higher levels, and in I7 pets were left alone (they had 75% tohit at the time) and turrets were reduced (from 90% to 75%).
The original tohit of critters was, for those interested in the history, 50% for minions, 62.5% for Lts, 75% for Bosses, 90% for AVs and pets, and 105% for Turrets. This was reduced to 50%/57.5%/65%/75%/90% in I5ish. Then to 50%/50%/50%/50%/75%/75% in I7, with the new rank accuracy modifiers set to 1.0/1.15/1.3/1.5/1.0/1.0.
** And technically, anything more than five levels higher than you also has enhanced tohit. And that also isn't a buff per se, its a combat modifier. We don't typically say that +6s debuff our damage, and neither do +6s get buffed damage either.
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Let's just say that by "buffed" I meant stronger, higher, increased, and let's leave the pointless semantics/context debate at that.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Odd, I would count that as an example of you being wrong... An external source made a one-time change to a power, aka, it got buffed. Turrets do not have external sources making them hit more, they just DO. AKA, they are not to-hit buffed, they just have a better chance. Give it up. Arcana was right, and it doesn't really matter.
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Every time someone makes an obnoxious nitpick that's arguably (ir)relevant to the topic, with the only purpose of confusing and overloading a new player who asked a simple question, with highly situational info, god kills a kitten. Will you please think of the kittens?
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Soft Cap:
Hard Cap: Alternately, listen to silverado. |
This....THIS has made my night
Do they vary with each power? How do I achieve them? Do I WANT to achieve them? Sorry for the n00b question, I appreciate anyone responding.