My First Dominator Feels and Plays Like A Blaster
By
Beelzy,
Posted on: 2010-08-26 24:42 in Dominators
Yes, it does. I had an old dominator redside, plant/thorns, that I never really was able to get into playing. A mostly useless pet, anemic damage outside of Domination, and not a great deal of team utility.
I also rolled an electric/electric. What I like about this is, apart from the blastery feel, is that it's the closest thing you can get to playing a Malta Sapper. A couple good hits and the mobs are helpless to attack anybody.
Don't neglect your melee attacks. Slot up your conductive aura for endurance mod, get on a team, and follow the tank. All the mobs in the herd won't be able to attack much of anybody. Use your sleep pseudopet as a tank when solo.
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"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I've always felt that a good Dominator feels like an out-of-control bloodthirsty blaster, with control powers as a backup to saving his ***.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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As of Issue 15, Dominator damage is now set at a higher base - at or above Blaster damage - WITHOUT Domination.| Yes, it does. I had an old dominator redside, plant/thorns, that I never really was able to get into playing. A mostly useless pet, anemic damage outside of Domination, and not a great deal of team utility. |
Domination still does affect Hold/Stun/Immob/etc magnitudes for as long as its up.
From Paragon Wiki on Issue 15:
The base Damage Scale for melee will be increased from .75 to 1.05, and ranged from .65 to .95, a significant increase.
Also, Plant has a TON of team utility. You get Seeds of Confusion at 8, which is a huge deal for low level teams. You get Creepers at 26, which definitely helps in mob mitigation and absorbing alphas. The pet AI was also revamped, so it's now no longer as horrible as Jack Frost.
Lastly, with the inclusion of hero APPs, Dominators made out the best by getting tons of AoE in both the Fire and Ice mastery sets.With all of the changes done to Doms, they play more like Blasters than Blasters do. Any Dominator combination should be fairly monsterous - well, maybe not Gravity.
Dominators have always been closer to blasters/blappers than controllers in playstyle. The straight-up damage boost Solidified this. You can turn stuff to statues, but most of the time you're expected to kill them before they unfreeze. it is similar to the 'kill it before it kills you' theme except will lower stakes. You can stop damage, but you also don't have all the burst for fast defeats. So it's more about killing and freezing stuff before it damages much. death should come far less often.
Oh and FYI, the dominator damage mods are this: melee: 1.05/ ranged: .95. They're under blaster numbers for ranged attacks, but not by far. A melee dom's attacks will actually pack more punch than a blaster's. (Too bad most melee-slanted assault sets don't have a damage boost.)
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I've always thought Dominator is more closer to Blaster than to Controller so your feeling is pretty much like mine. |
Originally Posted by Fusion_7
I have to ask this question being that this is my first Dominator. Currently I am in Praetoria with my level 20 Elec/Elec Dominator. Being that I had to build a new toon in order to experience Praetoria, I decided to try a Dominator. To be honest, I originally started out with a Plant/Fire Dominator but then ended up deleting them as I felt I had "too" many hold powers and not enough ranged damage, but I'm not a Dominator expert so who knows?
The first thing I noticed was how good the ranged powers where. Without even slotting for range yet on my Tesla Cage, Electric Fence and Jolting Chain just to name a few, I am loving the feeling of going long range on some of my attacks. It would appear though being a Dominator, that more "hold" powers are available to me versus My Energy/Energy Blaster or maybe my Ice/Ice Blaster. With that being said, am I right in saying that most Dominator builds might play like a Blaster with ranged attacks or did I just pick a power set elec/elec that has more ranged attacks and thus feels like a Blaster? |
Many Dominators I've seen don't like using melee attacks so your experience with your first Dom is pretty accurate too.
Elec actually only has two reliable long range ST attacks and one cone. I wouldn't call it the best ranged assault set but of course you can slot +damage in your control powers to make it more "all ranged".
The best long range IMO is probably Fiery Assault after you have Blaze and you can combo Gravity (lift does decent damage now) or Mind control. I turned my Mind/Energy into all ranged too.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Not far enough. It's amazing how poor Blasters are in this game and how little anyone cares about it. That's what happens when the primary balancer is just to give everyone more damage when they seem to lag behind another AT.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Oh and FYI, the dominator damage mods are this: melee: 1.05/ ranged: .95. They're under blaster numbers for ranged attacks, but not by far. A melee dom's attacks will actually pack more punch than a blaster's. (Too bad most melee-slanted assault sets don't have a damage boost.) |
I think there are very few assault sets that can get away with being pure range without crippling their own damage output. At the very least every domi should take their melee attacks until they get their T9 Blast or equivalent.
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If your playing an elec/elec Dom all ranged your doing it wrong.
I'm on my second elec assault Dom and i can tell you the melee powers do a lot more damage than the ranged powers.
If you get enough Recharge you can cycle just the punches for tons of dps.
Some sets are better at range some better at mele , elec is melee so don't ignore the punches or you'll make baby jesus cry 
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Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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Sorry but I don't think this is right. A friend and I have a duo of reasonably setted energy/energy/force blasters at lvl 49 and we are playing at +0x4 and we are fairly ripping through the high level missions at the moment. Even EB's are taking less than 30 seconds for us to take down.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
It's amazing how poor Blasters are in this game and how little anyone cares about it.
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If we can manage that then no way are blasters underpowered.
I also have a level 43 plant/thorn dominator and she is incredibly usefull on teams. Locking down full size mobs is not an issue for her. As for damage there is no shortage of that too. This toon plays with a SS brute and she frequently takes on large mobs of baddies that have overwhelmed the brute and polishes them off.
Dominators were always mini-blasters. That was the problem. Too many people thought they were redside controllers and played them like that. Then cried and complained on the forums. I'm glad you figured it out in your first go.
Please buff Ice Control.
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I don't disagree. This has been the argument that many of us who are against homogenization have thrown out time and again. This came up a lot before the whole dominator revamp.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Not far enough. It's amazing how poor Blasters are in this game and how little anyone cares about it. That's what happens when the primary balancer is just to give everyone more damage when they seem to lag behind another AT.
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The more you try to balance everyone around the concept that everyone should be able to do the same thing, contribute the same amount, solo the same, team the same, have the same powersets available, etc... the more you get watered-down vanilla.
Please buff Ice Control.
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That is not true. Dominators beat Blaster damage in melee, but not at range:|
Originally Posted by Mr_Heat_Stroke
As of Issue 15, Dominator damage is now set at a higher base - at or above Blaster damage - WITHOUT Domination.
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Blaster Ranged = 1.125, Dominator Ranged = 0.95
Blaster Melee = 1.0, Dominator Melee = 1.05
And Blaster melee attacks are at a higher damage level with lower recharge. So they can probably make that 5% difference up with Defiance.
Dominators really play more like Blappers than "pure" Blasters. Their faster recharging melee attacks are more built for staying in the melee, instead of darting in and out of it like a Blaster. And they lack the dual Aim/Build Up combo. Except for Sniper attacks, which actually are pretty comparable to Blaster snipes, the Dominator really doesn't have as much burst damage.
It's a similar playing style, but not the same.
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Not trying to disagree with you here, because I actually see your point.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I don't disagree. This has been the argument that many of us who are against homogenization have thrown out time and again. This came up a lot before the whole dominator revamp.
The more you try to balance everyone around the concept that everyone should be able to do the same thing, contribute the same amount, solo the same, team the same, have the same powersets available, etc... the more you get watered-down vanilla. |
But one thing that is not being mentioned is the difference in AoE capabilities between Blasters and Dominators. With some exceptions, Blasters will contribute greater AoE damage on teams.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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My main is an energy/elec/elec and has thousands of hours post 50. I'm well aware of their benefits and limitations. While it may not be near the strongest post-50 toon I have, it is still my favorite, and by far the most played. I am not for a moment suggesting Blasters are not fun to play, but this is a relative statement. |
Originally Posted by ricktu
Sorry but I don't think this is right. A friend and I have a duo of reasonably setted energy/energy/force blasters at lvl 49 and we are playing at +0x4 and we are fairly ripping through the high level missions at the moment. Even EB's are taking less than 30 seconds for us to take down.
If we can manage that then no way are blasters underpowered. I also have a level 43 plant/thorn dominator and she is incredibly usefull on teams. Locking down full size mobs is not an issue for her. As for damage there is no shortage of that too. This toon plays with a SS brute and she frequently takes on large mobs of baddies that have overwhelmed the brute and polishes them off. |
And I'll repeat that Blasters lag behind almost everything else when you get it fully IO'ed out. They are squishy and that's part of the tradeoff for being high damage.
My controller solos mobs at +3/x8, as just one example of what another squishy AT is doing. You may think your duo is doing well, and it is relative to the game, but not respective to what most others can do. There is just only so far you can take a Blaster, even with IOs.
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I think the same thing about Blasters......for both, the melee attacks are really incredible burst attacks that are absolutely worth taking. With a Dominator's control abilities, it makes even less sense to skip them.
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Originally Posted by Tangler
I think there are very few assault sets that can get away with being pure range without crippling their own damage output. At the very least every domi should take their melee attacks until they get their T9 Blast or equivalent.
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Glad to see another dom fan! honestly I gotta stick up for plant/fire though, it's win. It's got a ton of ranged damage, and helps a team by turning mobs to ashes
I'm playing with an elec/elec right now too, and it's freakin' great. the plan is to make him a walking sapper, and going with Mu pool too, ZAP!!!
My Plant/Earth plays more like some sort of Brute, I got all the melee attacks and I love it (Earth Assault has only 2 ranged attacks though and they aren't great anyway). With SoC and Creepers I don't even feel squishy at all.
Looking at the damage modifiers I wouldn't skip any melee powers on a Domi. Only if you really insist to play it like a blaster.
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
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Blasters will conceivably contribute more, in general, but AOE damage contribution can be overestimated in a mature team setting. Once toons begin to get developed, everyone is usually going to bring some AOE damage, and often the difference in a Blaster's AOE damage contribution vs replacing that spot with something else isn't that big. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
Not trying to disagree with you here, because I actually see your point.
But one thing that is not being mentioned is the difference in AoE capabilities between Blasters and Dominators. With some exceptions, Blasters will contribute greater AoE damage on teams. |
Plus, as mentioned, the Apps now can make up a big difference in that regard. Blasters would happily take an every spawn AOE power as good as the Fireball in the Dominator Apps.
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| And Blaster melee attacks are at a higher damage level with lower recharge. |
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| So they can probably make that 5% difference up with Defiance. |
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| And they lack the dual Aim/Build Up combo. |
This is a pretty good discussion, and we're only able to find rather small differences. I definitely agree that Dominators are more Blasters than Controllers. Having a buff/debuff set is a really big difference between a Controller/Dominator, whereas a Dominator Assualt set can effectively mash together a Blaster's primary/secondary by being able to eliminate things like controls and nukes.
A Dominator is much more a Blaster with more control than a Controller with more damage.
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Originally Posted by Razia
Looking at the damage modifiers I wouldn't skip any melee powers on a Domi. Only if you really insist to play it like a (gimped) blaster.
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If Blasters were meant as ranged toons, they'd have as many melee attacks as Scrappers have ranged attacks.
Dominators are Blasters that work.
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:d:d:d
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Originally Posted by darknesseternal
dominators are blasters that work.
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It is pretty cool that the can Alpha with such a nice AoE, but the recharge on, say, Blaster's fireball is half the time. It really depends how you slice and compare the powers.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Plus, as mentioned, the Apps now can make up a big difference in that regard. Blasters would happily take an every spawn AOE power as good as the Fireball in the Dominator Apps.
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So, the Dom DPS is still only like 75% the Blaster's. Really the Dom's Fireball is more something the Defender would go for if they wanted a damage boost.
The DPE is pretty close though, since the Dom's is only 4 more EPA, but has to be fired half as many times.
That puts the DPA much higher on the Dominator, but I don't want to live in an MMO world where we split the difference of 1s worth of activation. Even if we did, the Dominator's not going to get a full AoE chain like many blasters will, so the higher DPA of one power isn't going to help them keep pace.
I agree with the previous sentiments that our movement to homogenize the ATs by increasing their damage is a terrible idea. I would love to see the Devs coming up with ways to make each AT fun and have a distinct, balanced, unique flavor. At this point though, when you can IO a Blaster to jack up his survivability without compromising any damage (say ranged defense, S/L defense), then what do we say of the Dominator? The Dominator who can max some defense, but wasn't getting hit in the first place because of their control set, that's the guy I mean. All the hours "wasted" building a toon who we know in our hearts is unbalanced and possibly unfair because they decided to fulfill the player bases' request and do some balancing. Neither would I want to live in an MMO world where time can be "wasted." If you had fun, it wasn't wasted, because that was the point. Now I'm ranting :-/
Add to that, a well built and expensive Dom could layer Domination in Issue 17 and put lightyears between an expensive Dom and an SO Dom, I think the change helped bridge that gap. Perma Dom is still really useful, but it doesn't quite feel so make-or-break anymore.
In conclusion, I really think the change was needed and prompted by the effect IOs are having on AT comparisons and relations. There's solutions to this, so ATs could be balanced and unique with or without sets... but if you flip back to the responses to enhancement diversification and PvP changes you'll see how the CoH crowd feels when the rubber hits the road. Balanced and diverse ATs, they all cry. But the minute that compromises any toon or build plan they have they throw a tantrum that rivals even the WoW-crowd whining.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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Now that I have been playing the Villain ATs alot more (Thanks to GR ! |
Originally Posted by brophog02
This is a pretty good discussion, and we're only able to find rather small differences. I definitely agree that Dominators are more Blasters than Controllers. Having a buff/debuff set is a really big difference between a Controller/Dominator, whereas a Dominator Assualt set can effectively mash together a Blaster's primary/secondary by being able to eliminate things like controls and nukes. A Dominator is much more a Blaster with more control than a Controller with more damage. |
), I really like the ones I have tried so far (Brute, Corruptor, Dominator)Dominator is to Controllers/Blasters AS Brute is to Tankers/Scrappers
I have to give some major Kudos to the Devs for creating such versatile and unique variations of the Hero ATs for CoV. Kicking myself now for not trying these ATs years ago.
Jury is still out on Masterminds and Stalkers, but I will trying them soon enough.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
The one big difference, you're less likely to eat pavement as a dom...
I have to ask this question being that this is my first Dominator. Currently I am in Praetoria with my level 20 Elec/Elec Dominator. Being that I had to build a new toon in order to experience Praetoria, I decided to try a Dominator. To be honest, I originally started out with a Plant/Fire Dominator but then ended up deleting them as I felt I had "too" many hold powers and not enough ranged damage, but I'm not a Dominator expert so who knows?
The first thing I noticed was how good the ranged powers where. Without even slotting for range yet on my Tesla Cage, Electric Fence and Jolting Chain just to name a few, I am loving the feeling of going long range on some of my attacks. It would appear though being a Dominator, that more "hold" powers are available to me versus My Energy/Energy Blaster or maybe my Ice/Ice Blaster. With that being said, am I right in saying that most Dominator builds might play like a Blaster with ranged attacks or did I just pick a power set elec/elec that has more ranged attacks and thus feels like a Blaster?