The Crucible and Fort Trident: they need to be unique!
By
CapnGeist,
Posted on: 2010-08-22 07:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Not alone, no.
/Signed
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I completely agree.
I think that there should be an entirely unique map with unique elements to the environment that reflect that the people we're looking at are the pinnacle of good and evil and I should be able to tell that immediately.
Still, I'm happy its even there in the first place to be honest!
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True enough. They'll do fine as placeholders. But only as place holders.
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Originally Posted by Soul Storm
I completely agree.
I think that there should be an entirely unique map with unique elements to the environment that reflect that the people we're looking at are the pinnacle of good and evil and I should be able to tell that immediately. Still, I'm happy its even there in the first place to be honest! |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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They're both incredibly underwhelming when compared to the rest of GR and i18, and could use complete overhauls. They look like something someone threw together in an hour, not like something carefully crafted to give players an enjoyable experience.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
Agreed so bad.
And it might sound selfish but the same goes for the Resistance HQ's, that are all exactly the same. I mean, I know they are just the resistance, and sewers dont tend to vary but, I expected a little more out of at least the final one where calvin scott is located. I mean, I expected to be greeted with the largest Resistance hub with Calvin standing up on the catwalks issuing commands and inspecting troops, but I just saw the same layout as the beginner area with the leader of the resistance standing in a corner.
Pretty sure I've read that these hubs are only temporary. I think some of the ingame text from the NPC's also points to this. :-)
I saw Fort Trident yesterday, and it is embarrassing. A cave near a pond in Atlas Park takes me to a submarine pen in the world's most boring Longbow base? That's unacceptable. And why a Longbow base? Why is everything Longbow? Why can't we have at least one more prominent hero group so that Freedom Corps paraphernalia doesn't clutter the whole game? Even in another dimension, I'm still meeting Longbow!
You say they're placeholders. I say it's unacceptable to leave placeholders in a finished, launched product. I had thought that pulling the Incarnates placeholder Alpha slot meant this was obvious. And even if it IS a placeholder, then frikkin' put a little more effort into it! Don't just slap it on a cave somewhere on the butt end of nowhere.
And what do we have inside? Why, a collection of NPCs standing next to SG portals that lead to them in their zones. I'm kind of reminded of that line of five Crey dudes selling SOs in Fort Darwin in CoV Beta. Only those were taken out before the game went Live.
Guys, fix this, and before the next Issue.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm gonna have to agree with everyone here. I was excited to see what awesomeness Fort Trident would be only to find it was the same Longbow map I've been to about ten million times. I want our wonderful devs to design a really cool place for those who are heroes to hang out.
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The "original" Pocket D was actually just a stock warehouse mission map that (supposedly) a Dev modified a bit during his/her spare time. It took them a few Issues to finally get around to reworking it to make something as unique as the Pocket D we have now.|
Originally Posted by CapnGeist
They're both incredibly underwhelming when compared to the rest of GR and i18, and could use complete overhauls. They look like something someone threw together in an hour, not like something carefully crafted to give players an enjoyable experience.
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While it would have been nice if the Devs had created cool looking new maps for these new places for I18 I'm not terribly upset about it. If you notice the mini-maps for these rooms don't even exist yet which is a clue that these things are not really "done" yet.
I'm assuming that eventually sometime in the future these two areas will be better fleshed out.
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The difference here is that the Paragon Dance Party was just at throwaway gimmick that someone thought it would be cool to have. It wasn't and isn't judged to a very high standard in the same way as people don't and shouldn't expect a new gaming experience from Walk. It was a gift, and we appreciated it for what it was. A gift, mind you, which became obsolete when CoV came out, since a co-op party zone was needed.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The "original" Pocket D was actually just a stock warehouse mission map that (supposedly) a Dev modified a bit during his/her spare time. It took them a few Issues to finally get around to reworking it to make something as unique as the Pocket D we have now.
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The Crucible and Fort Trident are not the PDP. They are and should be judged to a much higher standard, because they are both important conceptual locations and the advertised reward for staying a true hero or a true villain. They need to impress, they need to be exciting. And they simply do not and are not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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And also if the manticore in fort trident is the real manti, why can't I talk to him there for the origin of powers stuff.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Again I'm not exactly "excusing" the Devs for not making The Crucible and Fort Trident cool and unique. I hope that they will make it a priority to fix them up ASAP.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The difference here is that the Paragon Dance Party was just at throwaway gimmick that someone thought it would be cool to have. It wasn't and isn't judged to a very high standard in the same way as people don't and shouldn't expect a new gaming experience from Walk. It was a gift, and we appreciated it for what it was. A gift, mind you, which became obsolete when CoV came out, since a co-op party zone was needed.
The Crucible and Fort Trident are not the PDP. They are and should be judged to a much higher standard, because they are both important conceptual locations and the advertised reward for staying a true hero or a true villain. They need to impress, they need to be exciting. And they simply do not and are not. |
But on the other hand I still think the analogy to the PDP is appropriate here. I actually do not think The Crucible and Fort Trident were even factored into the game until relatively late in the GR development. During the closed beta people started whining about "we need cool rewards for staying true" and I think The Crucible and Fort Trident were a tangible response to that. They currently have a "tacked on" feeling because frankly I think they were in fact tacked on, a secondary concern that suffered the fate of being a secondary concern.
I agree these things should "impress [and] need to be exciting" the same way the PDP was a good initial concept that needed to evolve into something cool. Yes it's crummy we have to wait for The Crucible and Fort Trident, but they are at least functional at the moment and the window dressing can come in later. *shrugs*
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They're not the only thing that feels tacked-on, however, that's my main problem. Back during Beta, I mad a small rant/list of things that were really bad and I hoped they were placeholders, which people assured me they were. Most weren't, and are Live right now. The easiest example is the hospital in Nova Praetoria. When I first got into Beta, the hospital was using a copy-pasted interior from Paragon City, with four doors on the inside but only two doors on the outside. People assured me that this would be fixed, and what do we see right now? Four doors on the inside, two doors on the outside. Oh, sure, it got a few Loyalist posters and a new paintjob, but this still looks and feels like a placeholder.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I agree these things should "impress [and] need to be exciting" the same way the PDP was a good initial concept that needed to evolve into something cool. Yes it's crummy we have to wait for The Crucible and Fort Trident, but they are at least functional at the moment and the window dressing can come in later. *shrugs*
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And then we have the new tilesets, right alingside the "new" tilesets and right alongside the OLD GOD DAMN TILESETS!!! The tunnels are GRRRATE! Love 'em, can't complain. They're amazing. The "grey labs" of Praetoria are very well done, if a bit cavernous and empty and with only ONE entry room. Feels like they should have more hallways and intersections and less a linear path through large chambers.
Then we have Praetorian offices, which swapped the stone and wallpaper from the CoV tileset and swapped a few CRT monitors with holographic screens, but kept the gaudy redwood doors and railings, the 1980s towering copy machines, the 1990s PCs with floppy drives and, oh, the exact same rooms in what feels like the exact same layouts. And then we have the warehouse tileset from CoH which swapped... Nothing whatsoever at all. Not even the crates and containers have been rearranged. It's the exact same fed-ex tilesets, and one of the two people have been complaining about for as far back as I can remember.
And if that weren't funny enough, the ONE tailor on the entire planet of Praetorian Earth spends her time hanging out in front of her store like she's handing out pamphlets, I assume because her store has no interior made for it yet. And there's still nowhere to change difficulty at all.
I look around, and I see placeholder after placeholder. It's not that Fort Trident and the Crucible are all that bad, but it's just that they're one more place which feels like a rushed placeholder. I love the expansion and it's given me a lot of fun so far, but come on, now!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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They're past horrible and full on into WTF territory. Trashcan in particular. That my level 50 villain who has just gone through confirming his evil world domination outlook on life is supposed to dig through the frickin' trash is just painful.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
If the trashcan is for Villains, why is it in Fort Trident?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You're thinking of B.O.T.L.E.R and his can of trash. Trashcan (the NPC) is the villainous equivalent. But yes, I hate Botler just as much too.
Honestly, I can't really think of anything I do like about the Lounges. It's like they took a good idea (and I do think the basic concept is a good one) and then deliberately set out to implement it in the most awful fashion possible.
Personally I'd rather the HAM/VAM venders were made generic store contacts who only talked to the appropriate faction members and the current Lounges were just deleted until someone was able to work on them. There's placeholder and then there's actively bad.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
No, Trashcan is in Fort trident, under one of the ramps - you can talk to him, but it doesn't lead anywhere.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
What? So villains don't even get their own unique dumpster-diving loser? Man, I'd say it's cause Devs hate villains but honestly I don't want him in the first place.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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Well, you have Recluse, so it's pretty much the same |
Originally Posted by Oldeb
What? So villains don't even get their own unique dumpster-diving loser?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Recluse isn't even in The Crucible!
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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Maybe he's too busy dumpster diving out on the Grandville streets?
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Originally Posted by Oldeb
Recluse isn't even in The Crucible!
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Why would he want to take work home with him? |
Originally Posted by Minotaur
And also if the manticore in fort trident is the real manti, why can't I talk to him there for the origin of powers stuff.
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But on the subject, I haven' yet had the opportunity to see either (too busy playing in Praetoria), but I'd agree that such illustrious locations deserve maps behooving to their importance.
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I think the implication is that he's either spying on the Fort or funneling stolen doo-dads to the villains. I did get a good laugh from "Asking about this contact" on the trashcan itself.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No, Trashcan is in Fort trident, under one of the ramps - you can talk to him, but it doesn't lead anywhere.
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In fact, pretty much all the dialogue in both areas is actually rather funny, but I'll also say that they feel incredibly out of place. "You're a true blue hero, now feel free to listen to Positron crack bad jokes!"
I don't even agree with the location of their entrances. While I suppose any character above 20 can stay true to their alignment, none of my heroes stick around Atlas (heck, some never even go there at all). And having to travel across all of Cap to get a teleport to a TF contact that was probably equidistant away by ferry is just silly.
Considering that these hotspots are really for high-level characters, I think they need to be put in the end zones of each game - Peregrine Island and Grandville. Not sure what you'd do with PI, but I'd love to see the Crucible be made into a lounge inside the Grandville Tower.
I'd also suggest using the contact-dialogue-into-mission tech from Praetoria to make it so that instead of clunky teleporters everywhere, you can simply talk to the NPCs to get transported elsewhere.
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Yeah, that's another thing that gets me. I realise that not everything can be doom and gloom and serious all the time, but these guys are setting up a base of operations. Can they please not make me feel like I blundered into a sitcom? I half-expect to hear a laugh track after yet another spout between Sister Psyche and Manticore.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
In fact, pretty much all the dialogue in both areas is actually rather funny, but I'll also say that they feel incredibly out of place. "You're a true blue hero, now feel free to listen to Positron crack bad jokes!"
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And where the hell is Back Alley Brawler? And why can't I speak with Miss Liberty? How did she even manage to get to the Crucible before me? I didn't see her pass me on the way.
In-jokes and puns aren't going to carry this thing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Having seen these both in Beta and now Live, I would very much like to see these get unique maps that reflect the NPC's within them, particularly Fort Trident which is subbing as a HQ for the Freedom Phalanx. And the Phalanx HQ is the one major hero NPC location that for obvious reasons we can't see but has been shown to us in comics and the like.
Am I alone in wanting to see unique maps for these two places?
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse