Going to make my first Defender


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

Now I am no number cruncher prebuilder type person. So throwing builds at me will probably just cause me to have a large brain fart. That said. General advice is welcome.

I have not picked a build yet...as for I have to level some on my Tanker tonight to get to Shark Head Isle ...then it's on to defender.

Before I pick, I want my defender to offer some solid support for big teams...and I am undecided if I should even go down the dark path . I have a corruptor I love already. DP/Dark he does a great job in heals and dps. This time I want to be more support less dps for future teams on Villains.

Throw me some pros and cons you Defenders.... I would love your input.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Now I am no number cruncher prebuilder type person. So throwing builds at me will probably just cause me to have a large brain fart. That said. General advice is welcome.

I have not picked a build yet...as for I have to level some on my Tanker tonight to get to Shark Head Isle ...then it's on to defender.

Before I pick, I want my defender to offer some solid support for big teams...and I am undecided if I should even go down the dark path . I have a corruptor I love already. DP/Dark he does a great job in heals and dps. This time I want to be more support less dps for future teams on Villains.

Throw me some pros and cons you Defenders.... I would love your input.
Based on the sections I've bolded, I'd actually say you're looking to play a controller.


Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'

Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me

 

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Originally Posted by _Malk_ View Post
Based on the sections I've bolded, I'd actually say you're looking to play a controller.
Hmm I don't have much of a education on classes with Heroes. Isn't the controller more of a dom ? I don't know.

I guess I thought wrong of defenders. I thought they were support primary with heals ...

Now to go dig up info on defenders and controllers.. I am sorry I was uneducated on the heroe classes...I am pretty dumb to them at the moment.


 

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Hey dt long time no team! Defenders are corruptors flipped. They should basically play like your corruptors did with higher debuff and buff values while offering lower damage. If you want support without havingg to heal cold is awesome if you wanna be able to heal emp is great and you can make any one person on the team untouchable. Send me an in game tell @BL00DBATH I have tons of 50 fenders and would show u any of them in action.


 

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Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Hmm I don't have much of a education on classes with Heroes. Isn't the controller more of a dom ? I don't know.

I guess I thought wrong of defenders. I thought they were support primary with heals ...

Now to go dig up info on defenders and controllers.. I am sorry I was uneducated on the heroe classes...I am pretty dumb to them at the moment.
It's not a problem, it's just a big misconception about defenders and controllers. Controllers are pure support. Doms are mez/dps, while controllers are mez/support. Defenders, contrary to popular opinion of bad tankers, poor scrappers, keyboard face rolling blasters and LOLempaths, are not heal/heal -- we're support/dps. If you're only using the support aspect of a defender, you're not playing the class to its fullest. It would be the equivalent of a mastermind taking nothing from his or her secondary and expecting to be useful.


Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'

Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me

 

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My first suggestion for a recovering corruptor: Cold/ice defender. You get plenty of support. You can recolor the shields to make them less obtrusive now. Your rain powers are still gauged with blaster scale damage. You get access to sleet which is one of the beefiest debuff powers (along with freezing rain). It has no heals, but it's a sweet, sweet combination of ally buffs and foe debuffs.

Controllers are like dominators with the control powers as a primary, and defender primaries as secondaries. They are very strong support, too. If I were rolling my first controller, I would probably make a fire/thermal for nice control and very good support. It's by no means a "one trick pony".


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

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Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Hmm I don't have much of a education on classes with Heroes. Isn't the controller more of a dom ? I don't know.
Controllers and Dominators share primaries but controllers have Defender primaries for secondaries.

Meaning, they play COMPLETELY different than Dominators. In general they are safer to play than Doms but do a less damage.

This is based on my experiences at least..


My 50's:
Fiya Man: Fiya/ Fiya/ Flame Blaster -Protector
Ethros: Dark/Dark/Dark Defender - Protector
Ja-Ja: Fire/Kin/Earth Controller- Protector
Shadow Flux: Fortunata
Daily Forecast: Fire/Storm/Mace Corruptor- Infinity

"XP is for sissies. Real men collect debt." -Adelie

@Gammos

 

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Speaking as someone who made a defender first then rolled a corruptor... Stick with corruptors.

/cast PFF to deflect rotten vegetables

No more tomatoes? Ok, cool. /splat! Awwwww.....

1. You get no scourge
2. Your defender inherent causes you to lose 30% of your overall damage when in teams larger than 4
3. You have lesser buff values as a corruptor, but right now in teams and solo, I find I'm not really asking for higher buff/debuff percentages on my trappers (yes, trappers for both corr and def). The corruptor values were fine enough when we were restricted to the Rogue Isles, and I find them fine enough when teaming in Paragon. You know... I think sometimes corruptor values are overkill for blue side.
4. As a rogue corruptor you sometimes get treated like a dps by teams . Pew pew pew /support pew pew!


 

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Plus, fire blast!


Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'

Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me

 

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Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Going to make my first Defender.
Immediately delete it and roll a corruptor or controller. They do everything Defenders do and then some.

If you want a less 'doomy' approach then i'd suggest staying away from Kinetics. There are plenty of kinetics in the world. You'd be chugging along and then join a group conssiting of 2 more kinetics. Making you feel redundant. Pick Radiation or something like that. Defenders play extremely different based on what primary you choose. Tell us more about what you'd like to do as a Defender. Do you wanna Debuff? Heal? Buff? Just general support? There are many flavors...

except rocky road... we're fresh out of rocky road.


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Now I am no number cruncher prebuilder type person. So throwing builds at me will probably just cause me to have a large brain fart. That said. General advice is welcome.

I have not picked a build yet...as for I have to level some on my Tanker tonight to get to Shark Head Isle ...then it's on to defender.

Before I pick, I want my defender to offer some solid support for big teams...and I am undecided if I should even go down the dark path . I have a corruptor I love already. DP/Dark he does a great job in heals and dps. This time I want to be more support less dps for future teams on Villains.

Throw me some pros and cons you Defenders.... I would love your input.
Despite what others here have said to point you back to corruptors or controllers, Defenders are the BEST at Buffing, Healing and/or Debuffing. You will be trading solo speed, safety and dps to get the best Buffs in the game.

With that being said, its easy to see why people would shy away from Defenders in order to have their cake and eat it too. Even I (someone who wanted a defender from day one) have been tempted by Corruptors and Controllers.

IF you decide to give Defenders a go, I would consider one of the sets that are not currently open to Corruptors (Forcefields, Empathy). And using your criteria, that would lean towards Forcefields (or Cold like others have suggested). Forcefield Defenders are a little difficult to get started (like most buffing Defenders), but with a little investment in pool defenses (CJ, Weave, Maneuvers) plus your own defenses and KB, you can feel like a mini-tank blaster. You get to use your buffs every 4 minutes and then spend the rest of your time blasting. For some (like me) thats a very low-stress and fun way to team.

A couple of good blast sets to pair with FF are Dark Blast (-toHit, small heal) or Sonic (-res, sleep cone, KB).

Empathy or Kinetics are two other great Team Sets, but are difficult to solo. Kinetics (if done right) is extremely busy during team play. Between Fulcrum, SB, ID, Transfusion and Transference, you could find yourself with very little time left over to blast. On the right team though, Fulcrum + watch everything die in a fiery heap from your teammates, move to next spawn, repeat can be quite fun.

So from least busy to most busy, I would say FF, EMP, KIN. And finally, of these three, Empathy has the most trouble scaling up to larger teams due to the way their buffs recharge.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Sonic Resonance is a great support set that scales well to large teams.

Defenders get noticably better values than Corrupters, adding 58% Resistance to a team rather than 42%, and debuffing Resistance by 60% instead of 45%.

For further team support, choose either Sonic Blast to further debuff enemy resistance, or Dark Blast to debuff enemy To Hit and add another layer of safety.

Sonic/Sonic in particualr is well worth making as a Defender over a Corrupter. Try that.


 

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Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Despite what others here have said to point you back to corruptors or controllers, Defenders are the BEST at Buffing, Healing and/or Debuffing. You will be trading solo speed, safety and dps to get the best Buffs in the game.
Based on my experiences, I'd debate safety for sure and maybe dps/speed depending on the sets. Buffing though, there's several powers that are the same values of defenders as they are corruptors/controllers. It's all perspective, but I'm glad there's several of us non-anti-Defenders out there (Yes, I realize that's a double negative).

As for the Corruptor/Controller comments, it really depends on what the OP wants to gear himself towards.


50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec

 

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Originally Posted by StormyDarkness View Post
Based on my experiences, I'd debate safety for sure and maybe dps/speed depending on the sets. Buffing though, there's several powers that are the same values of defenders as they are corruptors/controllers. It's all perspective, but I'm glad there's several of us non-anti-Defenders out there (Yes, I realize that's a double negative).

As for the Corruptor/Controller comments, it really depends on what the OP wants to gear himself towards.
I agree Stormy.

Trying to keep my post short, I kinda glossed over the safety part. To me, Controllers have lesser buff values, but because of their "pre-emptive" controls comeing earlier in their career, their lower buff values don't make them noticeably less "defensive" or safe. And both Controllers and Corruptors outdamage Defenders by a wide margin (my opinion), so they are exposed to damage for shorter amounts of time in fights. This was kinda why I said defenders were less "safe". I did not mean to suggest though that certain Defender sets are "unsafe".


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
I did not mean to suggest though that certain Defender sets are "unsafe".
*cough*FF*cough*


50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec

 

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Originally Posted by StormyDarkness View Post
*cough*FF*cough*
What are you saying Stormy ??

My level 30 FF/Energy Defender could run circles around my Emp/Electric (when he was that level).

KB + 25-30% Defense + PFF + Aid Self + mezz protection + hover = very solo-able AND Safe Defender.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
If you want a less 'doomy' approach then i'd suggest staying away from Kinetics. There are plenty of kinetics in the world. You'd be chugging along and then join a group conssiting of 2 more kinetics. Making you feel redundant.
Have you ever played on a team with three Kinetics? Triple-stacked Speed Boost has everyone zipping around like hyperactive ferrets, popping nukes and godmodes like mad. Three sets of Transferrence means nobody will be out of endurance for long, while three sets of Transfusion makes the team almost impossible to kill. Even Fulcrum Shift stacks well, giving every enemy group a 75% damage debuff. Stack this with the tendancy for Kinetics defenders to take the complete Leadership set, and you've got quite a powerhouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Empathy or Kinetics are two other great Team Sets, but are difficult to solo. Kinetics (if done right) is extremely busy during team play. Between Fulcrum, SB, ID, Transfusion and Transference, you could find yourself with very little time left over to blast. On the right team though, Fulcrum + watch everything die in a fiery heap from your teammates, move to next spawn, repeat can be quite fun.
I don't know about other secondaries, but Kin/Ice solos quite well: hit the first enemy with your hold, debuff the second with Siphon Speed + Siphon Power + Fulcrum Shift, two-shot the third, and clean up. It's also fairly effective against tough opponents: once you've hit that EB a few times with Siphon Speed, Siphon Power, and Fulcrum Shift, they're crawling around barely able to harm a flea, while you're zipping around the room hitting them hard from every direction.

I don't deny that it's busy. On the typical large team, I'll fire off maybe one attack for every five powers from my primary, and that one attack is usually either Ice Storm or Blizzard.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post
Speaking as someone who made a defender first then rolled a corruptor... Stick with corruptors.

/cast PFF to deflect rotten vegetables

No more tomatoes? Ok, cool. /splat! Awwwww.....

1. You get no scourge
2. Your defender inherent causes you to lose 30% of your overall damage when in teams larger than 4
3. You have lesser buff values as a corruptor, but right now in teams and solo, I find I'm not really asking for higher buff/debuff percentages on my trappers (yes, trappers for both corr and def). The corruptor values were fine enough when we were restricted to the Rogue Isles, and I find them fine enough when teaming in Paragon. You know... I think sometimes corruptor values are overkill for blue side.
4. As a rogue corruptor you sometimes get treated like a dps by teams . Pew pew pew /support pew pew!
As a counterpoint, with the 30% buff to damage in the defender inherent defenders now do roughly the same damage as corrupters solo, not including scourge. It could be argued that in a big team, you usually end up with plenty of "damage dealers" so losing that in a team isn't a big tradeoff for the extra buff/debuff values you can bring. I think it does depend somewhat on what sets someone is looking at.

Been debating between DP/Cold or Cold/DP myself and I'm actually leaning toward the defender instead of the corrupter. Better shields, better arctic fog, better slows, and getting sleet at lvl 26 instead of 35. Defender sounds good to me...Just wish they'd fix sleet and give defenders the better -res value they should get in it, then it'd really be no contest to me.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
Now I am no number cruncher prebuilder type person. So throwing builds at me will probably just cause me to have a large brain fart. That said. General advice is welcome.

I have not picked a build yet...as for I have to level some on my Tanker tonight to get to Shark Head Isle ...then it's on to defender.

Before I pick, I want my defender to offer some solid support for big teams...and I am undecided if I should even go down the dark path . I have a corruptor I love already. DP/Dark he does a great job in heals and dps. This time I want to be more support less dps for future teams on Villains.

Throw me some pros and cons you Defenders.... I would love your input.
Plant/Emp controller. Excellent levels of support, decent control & decent damage via Seeds, Creepers and the AOE Immob. And a stupid planty thing pet (which is Ok since you can heal it and Fort it to keep it alive).

Or a Traps Defender maybe. They offer decent levels of support without you feeling like Mr Buffbot. Traps/Ice is one character I have on my radar to try, eventually.


 

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Originally Posted by Riverdusk View Post
Been debating between DP/Cold or Cold/DP myself and I'm actually leaning toward the defender instead of the corrupter. Better shields, better arctic fog, better slows, and getting sleet at lvl 26 instead of 35. Defender sounds good to me...Just wish they'd fix sleet and give defenders the better -res value they should get in it, then it'd really be no contest to me.
I picked a defender for my Dual Pistols because let's face it, DP's good looks can't disguise the mediocre damage. A /DP defender gives you a great looking, fun toon with the full awesomeness of the primary, and some of those primaries are really, really awesome.


 

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Force Fields is the MOST support with the LEAST dps. If you get Maneuvers, and you keep the bubbles up on everyone all the time, you softcap everyone who can be bothered to stay within 25 feet of you. To translate that out of number-crunch mode: Take someone with very little defense. Take four small purples and go up to something that should kill you a lot and slap it a couple times. Watch it not kill you.

Force Fields does that for your whole team, except you.

You're at a real risk of getting bored if you play it, though, because it's a very low-impact set.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
Immediately delete it and roll a corruptor or controller. They do everything Defenders do and then some.

If you want a less 'doomy' approach then i'd suggest staying away from Kinetics. There are plenty of kinetics in the world. You'd be chugging along and then join a group conssiting of 2 more kinetics. Making you feel redundant. Pick Radiation or something like that. Defenders play extremely different based on what primary you choose. Tell us more about what you'd like to do as a Defender. Do you wanna Debuff? Heal? Buff? Just general support? There are many flavors...

except rocky road... we're fresh out of rocky road.
Well because I didnt read the class info yet..(sorry was in GR leveling my tank).

I wanted a hero class that can heal well ..as for dps...not important.

So I am wondering does hero have a healer/mezzer thing going... I see suggestions for Controller to here.

I already have made many Corr's being a Villain... I was hoping to make something from hero line (since I dont play coh)...and bring it to red to have something different.

Basically who has the better heals and maybe some skills I know nothing of by the way that may compliment them... like Scourge for my Corr with his DP= sweet. Anything on Heroes that compliments a Def or Cor in the heals ?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
So I am wondering does hero have a healer/mezzer thing going... I see suggestions for Controller to here.
No such thing as a healer/mezzer. Controllers are mez/support. Go with a controller if this is what you want.


Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'

Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me

 

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Healing is seriously overrated. If nobody is getting hurt, who needs healing? Answer: Nobody. Most Defenders can keep the team from getting hurt. FF in particular I never saw a huge demand for healing around. My FF has medicine and yes, she uses it sometimes, but most of the incoming damage is so gradual that it's unnecessary to worry overmuch about it.

So get the whole idea that "I have to heal!" out of your head. Everyone heals naturally. in essence, my FF heals people quite well WITHOUT medicine pool, by leveraging their natural regen rate.

There is no 'support/mez'. There is no '*/mez' period. If you want to be full support you will need to go mez/support.

Defenders with -resist and Corruptors of all sorts pull together on damage. Defenders are very potent in support. Our blast sets have some support or mez in it, but not so much that you can envision yourself as a Controller. I suppose if you went ape with Dark Blast slotting or maybe Ice Blast you could get some of that going on, but you still wouldn't be a control type.


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

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Your sig makes me smile


Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'

Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me