I am in it for the badge, and really that's it. If there are no other drops, well, I won't be running it multiple times.
Hmmmm, there is some discussion of their improving the amount of merits it awards, and I hope it does. Hopefully they'll add drops as well, as that decision doesn't make much sense.
Can anyone explain to me how this CoP thing works? All I've seen are lists of people doing it, and strategy guides that assume you know what is going on already. 
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Castle is attempting to get the rewards team to boost the merit count though it is unknown by how much. Plus the temp buff actually lasts a while if you choose that option.
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As a novice, I'll try to break it down for you:|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Can anyone explain to me how this CoP thing works? All I've seen are lists of people doing it, and strategy guides that assume you know what is going on already.
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Two parts of the mission, 1) Outdoor (Shard map), 2) Indoor (Boss)
There are three Obelisks that need to be destroyed within 30 seconds of each other. They have barrier fields that can only be taken down by wiping out the mobs near the Power Cubes. I don't know how long they stay down for, but eventually the Cube respawns mobs and the barrier comes back up.
I think you could probably do it in two rounds by taking it to 20% during the first barrier break, and finishing it simultaneously during the second. In practice, it's not so easy.
Once all Obelisks are down, you go to the boss. Big room, cubes with mobs, and the boss with forcefield. Wipe out the mobs, field comes down, beat on boss, mobs respawn, wash, rinse, repeat. With sufficient debuffs and pets, the AV ain't that hard.
That's about it; I'm sure an expert can point out some errors in my description.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Back in my day we ran things because they were fun not because we were going to get rewarded for it! I mean pre-IOs didn't you ever play a level 50, you weren't getting xp, influence at that point was a joke, I guess people may have played for prestige but for the most part it was for the fun.
CoP is challenging I think that the runs I did on my Emp were the most fun I've had on him in years.
I would run this just for the fun of it. Then again, I sometimes pvp and there is 0.000000001% incentive to do that.
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Originally Posted by The_Masque
I mean pre-IOs didn't you ever play a level 50,
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Uh... not really.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Weirdo.
Quote:
+rep|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
Back in my day we ran things because they were fun not because we were going to get rewarded for it! I mean pre-IOs didn't you ever play a level 50, you weren't getting xp, influence at that point was a joke, I guess people may have played for prestige but for the most part it was for the fun.
CoP is challenging I think that the runs I did on my Emp were the most fun I've had on him in years. I would run this just for the fun of it. Then again, I sometimes pvp and there is 0.000000001% incentive to do that. |
Not everything in the game has to be about maximizing rewards, or getting the most exp per second, or number crunching till everything is perfect.
One of the most common complaints leveled against Castle, Arcaneville (sp?), and Bill Z Bubba is that they understand the number crunching, they understand the spreadsheets, but they don't understand the Human aspect of playing: the "I do this because it's just FUN!" mentality.
There needs to be a balance struck between the aspect of what is fun, and what is numerically correct. One of Jack Emmert's big problems is that he only thinks in terms of wouldn't this be cool. Early City of Heroes (pre-ed), and Champions Online stand as testements to the poor gameplay that simply focusing on wat would be cool can derive. You can very quickly get classes that are far too overpowered, classes that are far too underpowered, and very specific gameplay moments.
Another one of the aspects of the game where the players themselves can make a dramatic difference in the event. In the case of CoP, some teams full of competent players with tweaked IO builds will struggle to complete the Trial. Some teams with only SO builds will crush it in 15 minutes flat.
- This makes delivering accurate rewards difficult.
- The only way to balance rewards is to do data-mining.
- Data mining takes time.
They are likely to watch the numbers generated from the number of times teams fail, the amount of average time it takes to complete the trial, and then balance the potential rewards against those factors, the hard-numbers first.
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I'm not really whining. I guess my argument boils down to the fact that, for me, this isn't as much fun as an ITF run, or an STF run, or many of the other things I can spend my time on (I should try out a Hami Raid). Part of the fun of doing content, for me, is being rewarded for my time. If the CoP was screamingly awesome in my view, I would't have even made a comment. What it feels like is a kiddy version of a raid you'd see in other games. As long as teams are reasonably competent and reasonably organized, it goes down easy... and, again, for me... isn't that fun. If teams are not competent and organized, it can be much more difficult, but not more fun.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
The rewards team, whoever they are, are not likely to make knee-jerk reactions based on players who whine that the rewards are too low for what CoP is. They aren't likely to listen to players who whine about needing reward incentives to begin with to do content.
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Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Masque
Back in my day we ran things because they were fun not because we were going to get rewarded for it!
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Just wish the mobs were worth a little xp and had drops.
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If the mobs at least droped inspirations...
right now theres prolly no incentive to run it, but for incarnate stuff there will be an incarnate salvage added on to CoP (what it is i dont remember, only saw a few screenies from poeple on test)
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That must be it. Everyone will need Incarnate salvage, so you'll be able to put together a full 24 toon raid, and even if you only got one piece of salvage per run, if it's only 15 minutes that's a good deal.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
right now theres prolly no incentive to run it, but for incarnate stuff there will be an incarnate salvage added on to CoP (what it is i dont remember, only saw a few screenies from poeple on test)
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I would prefer a more fun CoP, though. I'm not a monster.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Quote:
Those who think these two are ever in conflict either don't understand what is fun, or don't understand what is numerically correct.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
There needs to be a balance struck between the aspect of what is fun, and what is numerically correct.
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Fun defines where you aim. Numerically correct ensures you hit it. Numerically correct game design never dictates fun, because numerically correct game design only specifies the how, it never specifies the what.
Numbers are basically the language of game implementation. To say there needs to be a balance between fun and numerically correct is like saying there needs to be a balance between missions that are fun and missions that are written with proper punctuation.
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iirc, the old CoP gave a sg buff that lasted a month? and you could have up to 5 sg buffs?
now it lasts for a week... any numbers on the new buffs yet?
I haven't tried it yet so I'm reserving judgement, why no exp? is everything tagged as a summon or something? weird.
perma jump is ---> /up 1
Quote:
I like listening to you talk
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Those who think these two are ever in conflict either don't understand what is fun, or don't understand what is numerically correct.
Fun defines where you aim. Numerically correct ensures you hit it. Numerically correct game design never dictates fun, because numerically correct game design only specifies the how, it never specifies the what. Numbers are basically the language of game implementation. To say there needs to be a balance between fun and numerically correct is like saying there needs to be a balance between missions that are fun and missions that are written with proper punctuation. |
Dusty Trophies
Ryxx I finally updated my sig for you.
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How about an all emp defender CoP run?
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
That must be it. Everyone will need Incarnate salvage, so you'll be able to put together a full 24 toon raid, and even if you only got one piece of salvage per run, if it's only 15 minutes that's a good deal.
I would prefer a more fun CoP, though. I'm not a monster. |
Quote:
I tried updating mine but I stopped because I am lazy. Guess I could finish it again.|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
Ryxx I finally updated my sig for you.
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*edit* also I apparently don't have permission to view yours
Dusty Trophies
Quote:
An All-Defender run sounds like it could be interesting but all Emp?|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
How about an all emp defender CoP run?
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/em shudder
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Quote:
Maybe it will be seen as more worthwhile with the inclusion of the end game system, but... supposedly you're going to get incarnate salvage (or whatever it will be called... hopefully something different, as Arcana has suggested) running the STF, LGTF, etc. So that doesn't really add up, either.|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I'm not really whining. I guess my argument boils down to the fact that, for me, this isn't as much fun as an ITF run, or an STF run, or many of the other things I can spend my time on (I should try out a Hami Raid). Part of the fun of doing content, for me, is being rewarded for my time. If the CoP was screamingly awesome in my view, I would't have even made a comment. What it feels like is a kiddy version of a raid you'd see in other games. As long as teams are reasonably competent and reasonably organized, it goes down easy... and, again, for me... isn't that fun. If teams are not competent and organized, it can be much more difficult, but not more fun.
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There's nothing wrong with wanting rewards for things, either. I like pretty much all the TFs at the end of the game, but I'd enjoy running them less if they didn't hand out rewards (as the rewards and tweaking out my characters is part of the game's fun as well).
Oh, and thanks for the rundown on how it works earlier, I appreciate it. I hate getting lost or not knowing what's going on in a TF, let alone a raid. I'll have to play it to know if it's "fun" or not, but the shard has some fun and interesting atmosphere, so I may like it for that.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
I tried and failed twice yesterday. First time, the AV would always heal back up to full by the time people dealt with the respawns, and we made no progress. Second time, no one could get into the second part, because nobody could see the other players' progress on the obelisks.|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
With sufficient debuffs and pets, the AV ain't that hard.
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Debuffs are probably the game's biggest mechanical problem right now. They play hell with any attempt at a consistent time / reward ratio. What's fun without debuffs is trivial with debuffs. What's fun with debuffs is unplayable without them. Some day I expect to see Global Defense Nerf for debuffs.
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I disagree with you A LOT... but this here is certainly NOT one of those times.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Not everything in the game has to be about maximizing rewards, or getting the most exp per second, or number crunching till everything is perfect.
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It reminds me of when I would run TFs with my friends on a character who had outleveled it... and got 0XP for my trouble. But it was fun, because I was doing it with friends, and we could laugh about the various trials and tribulations along the way. Obviously, some people's MMV.
I got in on a CoP run last night, and although there were some difficulties we ended up finishing in a reasonable time frame. (Thanks FMP!)
My question is this: once you have the badges, why run this? Maybe mathematically, 15 minutes is a good time for 10 merits, but for the number of people and level of coordination you need to have for this, I don't see how it's worth it over the long haul. Or maybe the buff reward is a lot better than I'm aware of.
You get no XP, no inf, no drops; I can see the reasons for doing this, but the end result is that I feel my time is better spent in any other Trial/TF/SF/mission/whatever.
It's fun enough... but not for me to run it on a weekly basis.
What am I missing here?
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."