Short answer: it's the Dual Pistols of Brutes. It's pretty, flashy, and under-performing. The long animation times make it a pain to build Fury and the fact that it relies on a Siphon Power style damage buff power to make up for mediocre DPS really hurts on a Brute since they get less out of damage buffs than other ATs due to low base damage. But it is really cool looking...
I'd recommend a Scrapper or Tank instead... Scrappers can make much better use of the damage buff and Tanks don't care as much about how hard they hit.
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I will dispute the 'Long Animations' line. The numbers show that the set is actually firing off on average to fast for melee sets... excepting the tier 9. |
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Short answer: it's the Dual Pistols of Brutes. It's pretty, flashy, and under-performing. The long animation times make it a pain to build Fury and the fact that it relies on a Siphon Power style damage buff power to make up for mediocre DPS really hurts on a Brute since they get less out of damage buffs than other ATs due to low base damage. But it is really cool looking...
I'd recommend a Scrapper or Tank instead... Scrappers can make much better use of the damage buff and Tanks don't care as much about how hard they hit. |
On the other hand, the rest is accurate. Power Siphon just doesn't do much for a Brute - not enough to hit to make that valuable, and the damage boost gets lost in Fury.
It is still a fun set to use, but a scrapper is going to get a lot more out of this set than a Brute will.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Bottom Line. The set is average at best.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
so what secondary is going to be nice working with this new set?
40 50s so far.
if you dont like me....i dont really care.
respect is earned , never given
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There was extensive debate in test forums that I thought pretty clearly debunked the idea that the animation times were keeping the set slow. I am not going to take the time to look it up, but I remember firm data showing that the lower tier attacks in particular were down right quick.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Short answer: it's the Dual Pistols of Brutes. It's pretty, flashy, and under-performing. The long animation times make it a pain to build Fury
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
and the fact that it relies on a Siphon Power style damage buff power to make up for mediocre DPS really hurts on a Brute since they get less out of damage buffs than other ATs due to low base damage. But it is really cool looking...
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
But it is really cool looking...
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
I'd recommend a Scrapper or Tank instead... Scrappers can make much better use of the damage buff and Tanks don't care as much about how hard they hit.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Bob
so what secondary is going to be nice working with this new set?
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For Brutes, I was toying with the idea that /Shield or /Will as its ST focus will let auras on those get saturated.
I also toyed with some /Energy thoughts, mostly due to visual appeal of combining the two sets.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Short answer: it's the Dual Pistols of Brutes. It's pretty, flashy, and under-performing. The long animation times make it a pain to build Fury and the fact that it relies on a Siphon Power style damage buff power to make up for mediocre DPS really hurts on a Brute since they get less out of damage buffs than other ATs due to low base damage. But it is really cool looking...
I'd recommend a Scrapper or Tank instead... Scrappers can make much better use of the damage buff and Tanks don't care as much about how hard they hit. |
I would echo this comment. I ran it on a brute paried with Elec armor and it felt a little undewhelming but visually very cool. I think it end up being middle of the pack depending on how it is built - I doubt it will ever be high end for a brute becuase the animation times do seem to slow down the fury bar. I'm no brute expert by any means but I think it will be a better tank set with the mix of ST and AoE and some damage boost from Siphon Power and the new Bruising inherent. Not sure it will compete real well as a top scrapper set but I could be wrong.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Blah blah blah long animations blah blah blah.
It's a good set. From what I can tell, it pairs well with all secondaries. My favorite combo for a Brute is KM/ELA.
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Oh? I've never been able to get to +100.00% damage with Fury in only 4 hits. What's your secret?
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
On the other hand, the rest is accurate. Power Siphon just doesn't do much for a Brute - not enough to hit to make that valuable, and the damage boost gets lost in Fury.
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My thoughts the whole way thru beta! I will say play the set and decide for yourself it may be you kinda bag! |
Originally Posted by Lord_Cyclones
it felt a little undewhelming but visually very cool.
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I'll repeat this, because it bears repeating: THE ANIMATIONS ARE NOT LONG. OVERALL, IT'S ON THE FASTER END OF MELEE ATTACK SETS.
That said, I do agree that KM is better suited for Scrappers, Tankers, and even Stalkers. The -Dmg component of the attacks, while nice, doesn't really matter once Fury get to a decent level and you're taking out most enemies before they can inflict a lot of damage on you. Furthermore, Power Siphon does feel a bit superfluous when you already have Fury. Sure, I've seen my total damage bonus go well over 500% when PS and Fury are both going full-bore. But PS still just feels like ... extra baggage on Brutes. That's the best way I can describe it.
KM is still a solid set, though, all things considered. It's visually stunning; has a few of tricks up its sleeve (two ranged attacks, stun, knockdown, damage debuff); and performs reasonably well for Brutes. It's just that Brutes already get a better, permanent version of KM's gimmick power in the form of Fury. I was part of the closed beta since the beginning of May, and after all that time testing KM across the melee ATs, I still might be making a KM Brute. My choice is more a matter of concept for me than anything to do with the powerset itself.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
I don't like the sound effects. Good thing I can fix that. I might do a KM/SD brute. (We can do KM with SD, can't we? I never checked during beta.) That combo should put out some rather stupid ST damage.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Very true...however there is alot of movement/wind-up + sound effects in most of the attacks and not alot of damage for whats going on...also if u happen to miss you tend to think back on that experience while you are winding-up another attack which adds to the feel that the animations are long even though they are not!
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
I'll repeat this, because it bears repeating: THE ANIMATIONS ARE NOT LONG. OVERALL, IT'S ON THE FASTER END OF MELEE ATTACK SETS.
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This seems to be the consensus of the good players on the forums.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I might do a KM/SD brute. That combo should put out some rather stupid ST damage.
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The rest of the newbies seem to be under the wrong impression that the set is underperforming, can't honestly see why they would think that *shrug*
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Yeah, you can go KM/SD. Not sure if the standard KM animations are used, or if there are different animations. But the combo is a go.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't like the sound effects. Good thing I can fix that. I might do a KM/SD brute. (We can do KM with SD, can't we? I never checked during beta.) That combo should put out some rather stupid ST damage.
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Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Yes, you can combine km with sd, they have alternate one-handed attacks.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't like the sound effects. Good thing I can fix that. I might do a KM/SD brute. (We can do KM with SD, can't we? I never checked during beta.) That combo should put out some rather stupid ST damage.
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KM is sort of an Energy Melee version of Claws. I've played all three now, and I have to say I enjoy KM the least.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
I will dispute the 'Long Animations' line. The numbers show that the set is actually firing off on average to fast for melee sets... excepting the tier 9.
On the other hand, the rest is accurate. Power Siphon just doesn't do much for a Brute - not enough to hit to make that valuable, and the damage boost gets lost in Fury. It is still a fun set to use, but a scrapper is going to get a lot more out of this set than a Brute will. |
The numbers may say that KM has reasonable animation times, but it just feels kind of slow and low-damage on the KM/Shield brute I made. I transferred a BS/Shield scrapper to the beta server and respecced it about four times to scavenge the IOs (using email to transfer them to the brute), and the KM/Shield brute still felt underpowered compared to other brutes I've played on live (level 38 El/ElA brute, level 50 SS/ElA, level 50 Energy/Energy).
I think the conceit of the incremental build up of the damage bonus with Power Siphon is wrong. You need something like Build Up to spike damage for a specific purpose. With Power Siphon your damage doesn't spike until five attacks later. A lot of things can happen in five attacks, especially if you're teaming.
Power Siphon should be changed to work like other Build Up powers, or the Kinetics Siphon Power, or be turned into a mini-Fulcrum Shift (five targets max for, say, 10-15 second damage boost for each target hit). I realize that the devs want to have powersets that differ from one another for the sake of variety. But at some point utility should be more important than design niceties.
The cone KB power is also suboptimal: it doesn't even have a 100% chance to KB the targets it hits, which means the vast majority of players will reject it outright.
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It's a perception thing. |
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Oh? I've never been able to get to +100.00% damage with Fury in only 4 hits. What's your secret?
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I didn't notice my KM/Energy Brute killing things faster with Siphon up.
I don't hit more often with Siphon up.
All I noticed (noticed, not what was really there) was the activation animation. It seemed to provide no real benefit that I could see.
Admittedly, I didn't care for the effect on Scrappers, either. I don't like the back-loaded damage, and I especially don't like the lack of a significant +To Hit. Quite often, it's the to hit boost that I really want from Build up, and such powers.
The difference is that I could see the effects on the Scrapper. On the Brute, I could never tell if it was Siphon, or just my Fury bar rising.
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Sorry to hear that. Personally, I find it quite fun to play, just under performing for Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
KM is sort of an Energy Melee version of Claws. I've played all three now, and I have to say I enjoy KM the least.
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I must admit, I do not understand how you could like Energy Melee over KM...
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Originally Posted by Rodion
The numbers may say that KM has reasonable animation times, but it just feels kind of slow and low-damage on the KM/Shield brute I made. I transferred a BS/Shield scrapper to the beta server and respecced it about four times to scavenge the IOs (using email to transfer them to the brute), and the KM/Shield brute still felt underpowered compared to other brutes I've played on live (level 38 El/ElA brute, level 50 SS/ElA, level 50 Energy/Energy).
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Originally Posted by Rodion
I think the conceit of the incremental build up of the damage bonus with Power Siphon is wrong. You need something like Build Up to spike damage for a specific purpose. With Power Siphon your damage doesn't spike until five attacks later. A lot of things can happen in five attacks, especially if you're teaming.
Power Siphon should be changed to work like other Build Up powers, or the Kinetics Siphon Power, or be turned into a mini-Fulcrum Shift (five targets max for, say, 10-15 second damage boost for each target hit). I realize that the devs want to have powersets that differ from one another for the sake of variety. But at some point utility should be more important than design niceties. |
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Originally Posted by Rodion
The cone KB power is also suboptimal: it doesn't even have a 100% chance to KB the targets it hits, which means the vast majority of players will reject it outright.
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Yeah, I'm thinking about a KM/SD. Like you said, stupid ST damage. And with Shield Charge + Burst, some stupid AoE damage, too... >.>
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't like the sound effects. Good thing I can fix that. I might do a KM/SD brute. (We can do KM with SD, can't we? I never checked during beta.) That combo should put out some rather stupid ST damage.
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But what about survivability? Brutes generally have better defenses than Scrappers.
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KM will have a variety of Knockdown, Knockback, and stun effects. From playing it... the effects are only semi-reliable. I think a War Mace Brute will still have an edge in additional mitigation.|
Originally Posted by zprophet
But what about survivability? Brutes generally have better defenses than Scrappers.
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Still, it should be enough to help out early on, when no characters defense is really all that secure.
The trick is, this isn't any better for Brutes than it is for other melee ATs. So yeah, Brutes will still have an edge of Scrappers in being able to last a little longer when fecal matter hits the rotary device. But KM will still perform a bit better on a Scrapper, than on a Brute.
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Yes, agreed, not least because that style of mitigation (KD, KB, stun), while beneficial to living will also show up in limiting Fury. That tradeoff is likely to give scrappers an edge.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
KM will have a variety of Knockdown, Knockback, and stun effects. From playing it... the effects are only semi-reliable. I think a War Mace Brute will still have an edge in additional mitigation.
Still, it should be enough to help out early on, when no characters defense is really all that secure. The trick is, this isn't any better for Brutes than it is for other melee ATs. So yeah, Brutes will still have an edge of Scrappers in being able to last a little longer when fecal matter hits the rotary device. But KM will still perform a bit better on a Scrapper, than on a Brute. |
That said, I can easily see creating a KM on all three melee ATs, though. It is fun.
edit: four melee ATs. I forgot stalkers. oops.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Most people will opt for KM on a Scrapper first, and Stalker second, because of the T9. On a Scrapper, Concentrated Strike will not Crit. Instead, if the attack would have landed a Crit, it will instantly recharge Power Siphon. For a Stalker, it has a chance to instantly recharge Build Up.
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someone post real numbers of burst please
Title says it all. How come we're getting no feedback on Kinetic Melee for Brutes? Sure, we can get the bland, simplistic write-up from Paragonwiki, but what about numbers? Personal experiences? Synergies with secondaries? Inquiring minds want to know...