No Brute comments on Kinetic Melee?

Er... I was gonna post the Real Numbers, but seems there's a patch. I'll add it to my list of stuff to do on Beta tonight.

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Turns out there wasn't a patch. My updater was just being a ******, and wanted to fix and verify things.

Anyway, I clicked an empty slot to make a new character, picked Praetorian -> Brute -> Kinetic Melee, hovered over Burst, and set the slider to 50.

The results were:
31.28 Smashing Damage
20.85 Energy Damage

Plus, while under effect from Power Siphon, it adds +25% strength to Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, and Negative Energy on self.

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Off the top of my head--

Recharge: 15 sec
Radius: 8'
Activation 2.67

Brute numbers, level 50:

Notes

• Standard secondary effect is -6.375% to smashing/lethal/energy/negative/fire/cold damage types on the target, exceptions exist and will be noted.
• All powers with the standard secondary grant +25% damage while Power Siphon is active.
  • The buff is capped to 5 active at any time.
  • Each buff lasts for 7(?) seconds, and they remain until the end of their duration, even if Power Siphon's effect wears off.
• If an AoE size or range isn't mentioned, it's a single target attack with a 7' range.
• Animation times are as listed in game, not accounting for server ticks.

• 26.28 smashing damage
• 8.67 energy damage
  • 35.03 total
• 25% chance for 0.70 KB.

• 36.29 smashing damage
• 12.10 energy damage
  • 48.38 total
• 20% chance for mag 3, 7.15s stun

• 41.71 smashing damage
• 20.02 energy damage
  • 61.73 total
• 33% chance for mag 3, 7.15s stun

• +7.50% to-hit for 20.00s
• for 20.00s, enables siphon effect (see notes above).

• 25.02 smashing damage
• 8.34 energy damage
  • 33.37 total
• 80% chance for 7.79 KB
• does not have standard secondary effect (no -dam, no +dam with active Siphon)

• 31.28 smashing damage
• 20.85 energy damage
  • 52.13 total
• 50% chance for 0.67 KB
• -dam secondary effect is double strength: -12.75%, Siphon effect only applies once if it hits any targets

• 51.30 smashing damage
• 17.10 energy damage
  • 68.40 total
• 50% chance for 0.67 KB

• 41.71 smashing damage
• 106.77 energy damage
  • 148.48 total
• 60% chance for 11.92s mag 3 stun

Quote:

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Thanks for the detailed numbers. Kinetic Melee seems like a good set for fighting solo, difficult targets, isn't it? Siphon Power seems like it would shine against an AV or something.

I've had time to test Kinetic Melee on a Brute, and I've quite enjoyed it. It's fun, flashy, and it does pretty good single target damage as well.

Power Siphon is a power that takes some time to get the hang of. It's not as spikey as Build Up, nor is it really as steady as rage.

It really works best if you have a nice, speedy attack chain. High recharge, Hasten, and the Quickened Reflexes Secondary Mutation help a lot. I might actually end up taking the t1 with this build.

Looks very average. Unusual power recharge times. 3,5,7 and 8 for the lower damage single targets and 15 for the aoe. Probably would rather see 3,6,8,10 for higher damage attacks myself.

Here is the DPA breakdown for the single target attacks.
Quick Strike 37.91
Body Blow 40.72
Smashing Blow 46.77
Focused Burst 32.39
Concentrated strike 51.13

Now if it had the 3,6,8 and 10 second recharge we would be looking at this for the DPA.

Quick Strike 37.91
Body Blow 46.34
Smashing Blow 51.82
Focused Burst 38.71
Concentrated strike 51.13

Ceartanly not game breaking but would bring it up to slightly above average.

just my 2 inf

Edit to add: numbers based on arcanatime

This set kinda stinks for Brutes-- just like Dual Blades does. Both were arguably designed for Scrappers, and shine with that AT's higher base damage and self buff modifier (Power Siphon, stacked Blinding Feint). It's a set balanced around Power Siphon, which is why the recharges and DPAs are low across the board. And that completely ignores the Scrapper's tier 9 ability to recharge PS on a critical...

I'll be making a Scrapper for this set even though I love Brutes.

So, how is adding a stacking +25.00% for 20 seconds every minute or so on top of your Fury gains bad for Brutes? It'll likely be a fairly steady +100% for around 15 of those 20 seconds (barring a nice chunk of global recharge, of course) every time it's up, which means it'll effectively be a longer-duration Build Up, though you sacrifice a decent chunk of BU's to-hit bonus for it.

Look at Claws for Brutes and Claws for Scrappers. Then look at Dual Blades for Brutes and Dual Blades for Scrappers. One set was specifically altered when ported to Brutes because the self buff modifier is lower for this AT and it's manipulating a significantly lower base damage modifier. That set was Claws, and the Brute version of Claws plays remarkably better than the Dual Blades version which was effectively a direct port between the ATs. Both sets happen to employ the same +damage mechanic, which makes this a particularly good point of reference.

Now, we have Kinetic Melee, a set designed around a self buff mechanic that is deemed to be balanced for Scrappers. What I'm saying is that a set balanced for Scrappers and their self buffing abilities will pale when placed on a Brute as a direct port. See Claws vs. Dual Blades. The inverse is also true-- imagine SS on a Scrapper with double stacked Rage. What is marginally superior for Brutes would be unbelievably potent on a Scrapper.

I'm not hating on Power Siphon. I'm not even hating on Kinetic Melee. I'm stating the obvious: because Brutes employ Fury and a low base damage modifier, a set with skills employing low recharge/damage/DPA and a tool that grants high +damage to compensate will always fall short if it's balanced around Scrappers and directly ported to Brutes.

EDIT-- Just to reiterate, KM does not suck. At all. It's just far better on a Scrapper, just as Dual Blades is far better on a Scrapper.

Yea but Consentrated strike has to crit in order for the recharge to take place in exchange for the double damage. So it is not like you can make it perma on scrappers without any global recharge just because CS is up every 20 seconds.

Although I do think that CS should be able to actually crit and cause double damage in addition to the recharge. A stalker can crit on TF and it does the same damage so the argument that it does too much damage is invalid. In addition I believe the recharge of PS should be added to tanks and brutes as well to help compensate for the overall lackluster damage the set has.

CS, if it had a critical, would likely have the same as TF. Which means no, it wouldn't be double damage - it's around 28% (being a scale 1 critical on a 3.56 attack). And I agree that it should critical, for both Scrappers and Stalkers.

Then they could take the insta-recharge mechanic that they have for it, and apply it to all of the ATs. While they're at it, they could also apply the -dam and siphon effect to Repulsive.. er, Repulsing Torrent. At least then you could call it a mitigation power.

But it's not likely to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

I sort of like Kinetic Melee, but the set's mediocre on Brutes. It's nice on Scrappers (gogo insta-recharging Power Siphon) and really nice on Stalkers, however.

so they get nothing for cs? sloppy