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I had no problems soloing any of my Praetorian characters using nothing more than TO's.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
3. The new enemy groups are hard. The mission maps are enormous. Trying to solo it all on a pre-SOs, pre-Stamina character is an exercise in frustration.
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| 4. Ambushes. Oh sweet Eris, the ambushes. Someone fell asleep on the "add ambush" button and the others never bothered to move them. |
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| 5. It's nice to get a choice between two different options, but once you pick one option, everything else is set in stone - all the dialogue trees in the Tip and Morality missions have exactly one choice for your character. |
As the one (Massively?) reviewer pointed out, one choice has the heroic option of destroying the drugged water supply, but the consequences of the character doing that is that he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent citizens who die as a result of the water shortage.
It's perfectly possible to solo (almost*) every mission in Praetoria, provided one is careful and/or built for damage. Or just willing to zerg it if necessary. However, there's no denying that the enemies are by and large more difficult than the ones on red and blue. Not hugely, but it's noticeable.
Ambushes are fine every now and again, or when they make sense. In almost every mission? In ten waves or more, sometimes all at once? Some of them are probably bugs, but one wonders. At times the missions simply seem designed to kill you. Not everyone is going to be happy with this direction. Of course some characters can handle this better than others.
* - Two words: Noble Savage. I foresee many many Broadcasts in the future, all saying something like "GAAAHH! Team forming for Noble Savage!" (Unless he's been patched recently, which frankly I doubt.)
You know what? I shouldn't sound so darn negative in my first public feedback-type post. It sounds like I'm upset about Praetoria, but I'm not really. I don't care for the ambush-happiness, or the fact that this 1-20 area feels like it's balanced for SOs, but dangit the zones are incredible and feel alive, the stories are just fantastic, and the new mission tech involved is impressive. I especially love some of the dialogue options available, you can be straight up HARD CORE in Praetoria at times.
He was still pretty savage a couple of days ago when I last tried him 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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..but it's still fairly brutal on PCs that were running Cities fine before the implementation of Ultra Mode and now are struggling, muttergrumble.
| 2. The new zones, while made with Ultra Mode in mind, scale down extremely well. On low settings, Praetoria gives less graphics lag than most of the Isles. |
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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Soooooo....upgrade maybe????
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Originally Posted by Dalantia
..but it's still fairly brutal on PCs that were running Cities fine before the implementation of Ultra Mode and now are struggling, muttergrumble.
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You buyin'?
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Originally Posted by Slashman
Soooooo....upgrade maybe????
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Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Agreed. Praetoria runs slightly worse for me than the Isles. Not unplayable, but not great. Certain missions dropped my frame rates into the single digits. As for those saying buy a new PC or upgrade... some of us have financial responsibilities outside of the game's typical demographic's. Like a family, bills and what not. Expendable income isn't always amazingly abundant for us. So, unless you're buying...|
Originally Posted by Dalantia
..but it's still fairly brutal on PCs that were running Cities fine before the implementation of Ultra Mode and now are struggling, muttergrumble.
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I'll hope Praetoria receives further optimization as has been mentioned elsewhere, but if not, 12 fps is still playable for me.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I had no problems soloing any of my Praetorian characters using nothing more than TO's.
I rather enjoyed the ambushes. They really brought to the game the impression that people were willing to die for what they believed in, and that the zombies were really mindless monsters with little or no idea of self preservation. Two factions = two choices. The trick is to read the choices and decide which your character would actually make. The right choice isn't always the heroic option. As the one (Massively?) reviewer pointed out, one choice has the heroic option of destroying the drugged water supply, but the consequences of the character doing that is that he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent citizens who die as a result of the water shortage. |
TOs? Do people still use those? LOL I soloed 2 different characters to 20 level and never bothered to enhance at all until level 12 when i could slot DOs. That said I did have some advantages a "new" player to the game wouldn't see.
1. With over 54 months in game at level one I had three extra attacks a new player doesn't get.. That translates to Sands of Mu, A Blackwand and a Nemesis Staff. While they take a bit to recharge and can be inaccurate that gives me a lot more fire power than anyone with one day of experience.
2. I have several expansion pack and between Ninja Run and my Vet reward Prestige Sprints I had little trouble getting around even without a Raptor Pack. A new player may not have these so they get to slog along on Sprint to level 14.
3. I had my Vet reward Buff Pet adding to my damage and defense along with the Secondary Mutation adding defense, quickness, or whatever. While a new player can buy the Mutant pack they would not have a buff pet to assist.
4. I had 54 + months of experience to aid me in combat. I did the "Defeat the Aspect of Praetor Tilman" mission twice and the second time as the final spawn of Seers attacked I took them down until one remained .. and she quiclkly moved to the exact spot where I KNEW from the first time the EB was going to spawn. I headed back to the mission entrance forcing that Seer to follow and defeated her out of Agro range. I then rested and attacked Tilman, AKA Mother mayhem, one on one at full strength and easily defeated her.... Now is a brand new player going to have that ability to outthink the AI and succeed or are they going to take a few trips to the Hospital?
5. Lastly were my AT and power choices. I ran a DS/DM Mastermind and a DM/WP Scrapper through the arcs. Okay a few times my MM did faceplant under the constant ambushes but not often and the Scrapper did even better.. More HP, better defense and since it was second prior knowledge of what to expect. I shutter to think what a DP Defender or a Blaster would do trying to solo when the ambushes hit.
As for the ambushes I didnt mind them since in most cases they fit into the story line but they come to close together and in some cases are too larger... I had several experiences where I actually watched the next ambush spawn in MY FACE before the last member of the previous ambush had even hit the ground. I don't mind a challenge but come on we leave the zone at level 20 so at MOST you have 10 inspirations you can pop to help you keep your end and HP up. I spent a good deal of time running back to contacts between mission to resupply after using almost every single INSP on to survive those ambushes. Someone in another thread refered to Praetoria as a Experienced Players zone designed to lure back old players and give those of use still here a challenege but I am sure NC Soft also hopes the new zones lure new players to the game and those new players better make freinds FAST because otherwise they are going to get VERY frustrated VERY quickly trying to play the game by themselves.
Overall I love the story lines and the design of the new zones and think most players will as well. Whatever happenes with the tougher villains and the insane ambushes we will adapt and succeed .. WE always have :-D
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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I was talking about tip missions in the 20-50 range. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Two factions = two choices. The trick is to read the choices and decide which your character would actually make. The right choice isn't always the heroic option.
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Example: You find that some corrupt policemen are being targetted by the Whispered Hand, who are also after Silent Blade. Hero option is to save the policemen so they can answer in front of a jury, Vigilante option is to hunt down Silent Blade instead. If you pick the Vigilante option, you have a chat with Silent Blade during which your only options are to make a "I am the law" speech.
Praetorian missions are actually a bit better about giving you various dialogue options that don't directly impact the result to refine your motivation. ("Where's my cup of coffee?")
Character index
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Given that brand new players MUST create their first character in Praetoria and can no longer start in the Isles or PC, I would hope that the zone is tune for noobs.
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Someone in another thread refered to Praetoria as a Experienced Players zone designed to lure back old players and give those of use still here a challenege but I am sure NC Soft also hopes the new zones lure new players to the game and those new players better make freinds FAST because otherwise they are going to get VERY frustrated VERY quickly trying to play the game by themselves.
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Erm, that's not at all true. Not in the least.|
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Given that brand new players MUST create their first character in Praetoria and can no longer start in the Isles or PC, I would hope that the zone is tune for noobs.
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When you create a new character, you get the options of Hero, Villain, or Praetorian. All the current 1-20 H&V content is staying right where it is.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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As Dumple pointed out, this here is 1st class A Grade Wrong
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Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Given that brand new players MUST create their first character in Praetoria and can no longer start in the Isles or PC, I would hope that the zone is tune for noobs.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I've been using IO's, SO's, and DO's on the live servers for so long I wanted to see what happened, and I didn't have any significant problems.
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
TOs? Do people still use those?
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
I was talking about tip missions in the 20-50 range.
Example: You find that some corrupt policemen are being targetted by the Whispered Hand, who are also after Silent Blade. Hero option is to save the policemen so they can answer in front of a jury, Vigilante option is to hunt down Silent Blade instead. If you pick the Vigilante option, you have a chat with Silent Blade during which your only options are to make a "I am the law" speech. Praetorian missions are actually a bit better about giving you various dialogue options that don't directly impact the result to refine your motivation. ("Where's my cup of coffee?") |
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the 1-20 Praetorian range.
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I'm pretty dang sure it was stated that -New- players, as in those who have purchased the Going Rogue Complete Collection, or the Architect Edition and GR, will only have Praetorian as the first character choice option, and -then- the menu we get now for choosing Hero/Praetorian/Villain appears.
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Erm, that's not at all true. Not in the least.
When you create a new character, you get the options of Hero, Villain, or Praetorian. All the current 1-20 H&V content is staying right where it is. |
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Are you actually trying to claim that after Going Rogue goes live that a new player who purchases the Mission Architect Edition so he can get the free booster that comes with it won't be able to play the game because he can't get into Praetoria?|
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Given that brand new players MUST create their first character in Praetoria and can no longer start in the Isles or PC, I would hope that the zone is tune for noobs.
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You're nuts.
The devs aren't that stupid.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Are you actually trying to claim that after Going Rogue goes live that a new player who purchases the Mission Architect Edition so he can get the free booster that comes with it won't be able to play the game because he can't get into Praetoria?
You're nuts. The devs aren't that stupid. |
I more think he means the GR Complete Collection.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/coh/going-rogue-preview
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| As I went along, Matt (That's our Positron - Zortel) explained the concept of Praetoria. “We have this alternate dimension, this alternate earth, called Praetoria. When you first start the game, if you’ve never made another character, we force you to start as Praetorian, because that’s our best new player content; that’s our best foot forward.” |
First I heard of this. In any case, if it IS true--I think it's a terrible design idea.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Well in fairness it is Posi saying it |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
First I heard of this. In any case, if it IS true--I think it's a terrible design idea.
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Yeah, but Posi has always been our Anti-Jack. Being railroaded into picking the ONE AND ONLY ALIGNMENT YOU HAVE AVAILABLE, and being told that YOU MUST START IN PRAETORIA smacks of...dare I say...
For god's sake, someone could buy City of Heroes/Villains and NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE a hero or villain. *collapses*
"...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Guys?
As far as I can see from reading it:
If you have no other characters, your first character will be locked into a Praetorian to experience the new starting experience.
From that we can take:
People without Going Rogue will still be able to play Heroes/Villains
People who have characters already will be able to pick Heroes/Praetorians/Villains.
Once you have a Praetorian made as a new character, you'll likely be able to then pick Heroes/Praetorians/Villains.
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Oh, I read it that way too. My hyperbole was intended to amount to "DO NOT LIKE," though. I don't like it. It won't affect me or anyone I know...but I don't like it.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
Guys?
As far as I can see from reading it: If you have no other characters, your first character will be locked into a Praetorian to experience the new starting experience. From that we can take: People without Going Rogue will still be able to play Heroes/Villains People who have characters already will be able to pick Heroes/Praetorians/Villains. Once you have a Praetorian made as a new character, you'll likely be able to then pick Heroes/Praetorians/Villains. |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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As a matter of fact I already did buy the parts and upgrade my system in anticipation of the games I want to play.|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
You buyin'?
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It just seemed to make sense...
Quick rundown of major GR points for me:
Good surprises:
1. The writing is very good and the new mission tech is used to great effect. The arcs do a great job of building up a world and get your character involved in it, and your contributions actually feel like contributions.
2. The new zones, while made with Ultra Mode in mind, scale down extremely well. On low settings, Praetoria gives less graphics lag than most of the Isles.
3. There is a *lot* of new stuff! Three new zones, plus Underground. Four different storyarcs in each zone, which altogether make for a wide variety of character stories.
4. Elec control is pretty cool.
5. Tip missions are fun to run. Most of them are written so well they really do feel like a legitimate choice to make, especially the Hero/Vigilante ones.
Bad surprises:
1. The world that's taken such a lot of effort to build up is... something of a Crapsack World. Each side is made up of a large number of completely ******* crazy fanatics, and some reasonable people who are completely ineffectual.
2. The story does such a good job of pulling your character in, there's really not much to do if you want your character to be something other than a Praetorian. It feels like the effort made to make up this whole new world with new stories would have been better used to actually revamp the starting experience blue and red side. I suppose there's always the MA.
3. The new enemy groups are hard. The mission maps are enormous. Trying to solo it all on a pre-SOs, pre-Stamina character is an exercise in frustration. Put together a team, even a very modest one (3-4 people), and you suddenly have the opposite problem - levels go by so fast you barely have time for one storyarc before it's time to move on.
4. Ambushes. Oh sweet Eris, the ambushes. Someone fell asleep on the "add ambush" button and the others never bothered to move them.
5. It's nice to get a choice between two different options, but once you pick one option, everything else is set in stone - all the dialogue trees in the Tip and Morality missions have exactly one choice for your character.
Not pictured: Cathedral of Pain.
Character index