DP/Kin - Is it supposed to be this painful?

I'm levelling a DP/Kin build, right now in the mid-teens (pre-Stamina). And the gameplay is so painful and un-Corruptor-esque that I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

My attack powers are Pistols, Empty Clips, and Bullet Rain. Typically I'm running with Incendiary Ammo when I'm soloing, and getting one to two stacks of Siphon Power (I don't yet have enough recharge to get two stacks of Siphon power going reliably, even when using Siphon Speed). I've got all the powers slotted with DOs (which I would normally not bother with, but I felt like I had to try something). And while I've played enough Defenders to know that Kin is a famously late-blooming set with a "the best defense is killing everything before it knows what hit it" playstyle, even with those expectations built in the damage feels really, really anemic, to the point where Villainous newspaper missions with a few groups of +1s are life-threatening. I'm ending a typical fight with half my health gone and completely tapped out END-wise. Switching to Cryo or Chem Ammo for the sake of some mitigation hasn't helped; the mitigation barely seems noticeable.

My comparison points are sets like Fire Blast and Ice Blast. These sets feel out-of-the-box powerful: the blasts and the AOEs hit fairly hard, and the secondary effects are noticeable. DP certainly looks cool, but is it really this much of a turkey in the early going when combined with Kin?

Nope... it's just especially painful for DP/Kin...

I generally stick with the regular ammo, the KB does more for mitigation than any other effects solo... while teaming with another DP/Kin however, we'd swap between cryo and chem for stacking of either slows of damage neutering (which both stack well with siphon power/speed respectively) to great effect.

I picked up hasten in my early teens, just to get up the attacks faster... and one should never underestimate suppressive fire... slotting or otherwise.

It's a pain, but it will be worth it... Just remember... Im a Kin... kins bloom late!

Sadly, dp's change ammo effects are slight. They aren't nearly as powerful as one may think. And if you go in expecting the cryo ammo to substitute for ice blast, you will be disappointed. Similiarly with fire blast and incendiary ammo. If you want fire blast lvl damage, you should roll a fire corr.

I have a dp/kin and a fire/kin and I realized that as long as I kept comparing the former to the latter, I would invariably be disappointed. Dp/Kin is fun and can be powerful, but unfortunately it lacks mitigation. Hell, I know fire/kin doesn't have a ton of mitigation built in, but fire just kills stuff so fast that it feels like it does.

Dp/kin looks good... and I am sure that an ultra high end build will perform nicely, but you have to look at the set as a cosmetic and concept set. It doesn't underperform exactly, but it just doesn't provide the punch to knock fire off its perch as dmg king or rub radiation emission off as a debuff specialist.

Any suggestions on getting through the painful parts of the level progression quickly, then, to the point where the build starts to come together?

Take advantage of the fact that siphon speed doesnt suppress and most minions and lts will get stuck in melee attacks once in range... stay a few steps ahead of em while blasting and waiting...

I actually use a blue shield pet with great luck, it stays alive most of the time, but that's because Im speeding away from it generally so it misses AOEs... (not on purpose, just avoiding mobs, it moves slow)....

Slot up the heal and nothing you should face solo should be able to leave you with that little health. Use Suppression fire when you get it and it takes one thing out of the fight. I stuck with incendiary on my DP/Kin, and when times where hard I went with ice to slow the incoming damage down. On bosses, ice and siphon speed stack nicely.

Teaming is not a cop out. You will be fairly weak compared to other sets until you get your SOs. Use the single target attacks, as they are better solo. I initially built for a team, even though I was soloing and it sucked. Pistols looks great but is pretty weak. That's why I specifically chose kin to go with it. Now my guy has made it to fulcrum and hail kills nearly everything and I run at 200-400% damage all the time. It was definitely worth the wait. It's a blaster level nuke every minute--less with recharge bonuses.

I am leveling a DP/Kin also! I am doing great! I have been doing even better as a controller (Which is simillar, but I use Fire/Kin) and that made everything even easier.

What you may be doing wrong is the following - Attempting to solo Lieutenants (More then one of them) I couldent solo those my self. - Timing your heals wrong. If you don't time those heals right then you are bound to get hospitalized.

If you don't know much about your heal, it is a team heal and can only be used on an enemy, where you have to be a certain range near the enemy for it to heal you and your team mates. This reduces the regeneration rates for your enemy make it 100% more useful then most heals.

With that heal I was able to solo level 5 elite bosses just fine. Also, there is a guide posted up somewhere for villians only the ammo types to use aganst what enemys, ALL enemys are not resitant to all ammo types so it is suggested you read over that.

This is my opinion - Empty clips does NOT do much damage, from my experience so far, -1 -2. This is SOMEWHAT useful if damage is stacked correctly in inspirations and enhancements.

Although this opinion of mine may not be so wisdomatic as you may think I have only been playing for 2 weeks now and found DP/Kin VERY easy and I will be sticking with it.

If you don't like it, it is suggested you try dark mismia.

Also I would like to add, the repel shield will be VERY useful from keeping enemy's out of melee range.

- Zux

Ehh, repel is nice, if you have the endurance to deal with the drain on it...

Short term fix, get fitness pool > stamina until 35, respec out... you wont need it anymore after 35/36

Once endurance isnt an issue, you should not have any more problems.

Suppresive is under rated. 4 gaze of basalisk, 2 chance for hold procs... and you have a very good chance at making that boss stand still while you wipe out his friends.... and if he comes to, it's fast enough to stack.... or should be with enough recharge, hasten, siphon speed... et al...

the basic point is, it's going to suck, and it's going to suck big time until mid 30s... accept it, keep your eye on the prize, and move forward to it! The payout will be worth it.

I'm loving it, regardless of being level 30, it just takes lots of skill :P

I'm going to agree with folks on watching your ammo types. If you're soloing, you can't underestimate the benefits of Standard Ammo. The KB might get someone out of your heal range (bad), but while they are picking themselve back up, that's time you've got to handle other issues if you need to (recharging heals, attacks, managing insps, running!, etc). At this level, CoT cuts up real nice under fire ammo, which is good to remember.

I do, at this point, recommend taking Dual Wield. Concentrating your fire will start taking down foes a bit more efficiently than spreading your middle-of-the-road damage over a large area. I didn't take Empty Clips on my DP/ corr, but that was sort of a coin-toss vs. Bullet Rain (so far I've been pleased).

If you can afford, it, I do recommend slotting either the Achilles Heel Proc in Pistols, or the Lady Grey chance for negative damage proc in the same. One will ding out a reasonable -resist debuff, while the other adds a reasonably "exotic" damage type not commonly resisted at that level of play.

Fulcrum Shift then Hail of Bullets NEVER get olds though.

Maybe its the withdrawing of the weapons all the time? I never found DP to be painful nor kin, but then i pick powers tht i dont have to withdraw weapons every moment

I love my DP/Kin. Loved him from level 1 to the level 41 he is now. With Scorpion Shield, I kick major ***. Don't know what your issue is, sorry D:

I've got a DP/Traps instead of DP/Kin, but some of the problems are similar. For one, I found Swap Ammo to be generally worthless while soloing, so I pushed it back to lv30 in my build and things were nicer.

As for the Dual Wield vs Empty Clips thing, personally I made two builds for levelling, one with a single target focus (DW + Suppressive Fire) and one with an AoE focus. I found that the ST build was nice for certain enemy groups at certain level ranges, so that might be worth looking into. Once I hit around 28 I generally felt like I didn't need the ST build anymore since I had enough tools from my secondary along with the strong SO/IO enhancements, but I'm not sure how well that would apply to /Kin.

I am just levelling a Dark/DP and I have a 50 AR/Kin that I have played since forever. Since well before AR was given the respect it deserves

DP looks very very similar to AR as far as how tough it will be to level up with on its own, and honestly /Kin just adds to the woes. You have very very little damage mitigation and you don't actually have an awful lot of damage either to compensate. A lot of your attacks root you to the ground for a good amount of time so even trying to joust/shoot/siphon can be pretty difficult.

Perhaps it isn't much benefit to you but honestly 'find a team' is by far and away the best advice you can get to making your life easier. /Kin is a build that only comes into its true power for corrupters at 38 (or 39 with a few slots). It is also a build that carries basically no control, no real self-buff worthy of special not or debuff either... it functions almost purely as a team buffing build. What it does is just spectacular, and when you finally reach those final few abilities your gameplay will change from struggle-street to 'omg I do the most damage in the whole game out of... everything. Oh and so does my team!'.

The two together simply are going to be difficult to start with. If you can get through that to the higher levels the rewards are going to be incredible

See, I find unsurpressed movement a buff as well as the recharge siphon provides, triple stacked...

Like any Kin, it will come into it's own at 35/36... FS is just gravy when you reach the point of limitless endurance to toss out however you desire.

Unsurpressed leaping...

You have to be careful, buffs are buffs, .... no resist buffs, no to hit buffs, no defense buffs... but it has speed leaping, damage, endurance and health buffs... a heal is a type of buff if you think about it.