Soon Doms will have 7
True trollers will have 8, but meh, you'll get the 7 you want.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
|
won't happen.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...68&postcount=8
Also, Arcanaville has a good explination on the the design behind the illusion set: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=58
The short version is this: Illusion Control does not fit the intended Dominator Play style. Beyond anything else, building domination would be extremely difficult and would require significant changes to the set itself, which would no longer make it an illusion control.
I would love to see illusion for doms, and I personally don't see any problems with the set.
For one thing, domination is built by *attacks* as well as controls, and attacks actually end up building most of it considering how often they're used, so the set won't have any problem building dom.
I also don't see why illusion control wouldn't fit the dominator playstyle. What is so massively different about it that would make it a bad fit? No immobilize? Mind doesn't have one either. AoE mez at 26? Grav's in the same boat. Invisibility powers? No requirement to actually *take* them. Only 1 AoE control aside from the hold? Grav and fire are also like that. The only truly unique element is phantom army, and I defy anyone to give a reason why having PA is a *negative*. In fact, it actually has a *synergy* with dominators in that it'd give a control option that'd actually be effective against PToD.
If I recall correctly, in one of the recent Q&As or panels or whatnot, castle or one of the other devs said something about illusion for doms being a possibility even if they haven't done it yet, so I'm hopeful it comes along eventually. I've already got a concept, name, costume, and secondary ready for it. 
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I really don't see why; ice barely benefits from domination. I think Illusion would benefit from domination more than ice does, and ice is already a dom set. If I remember correctly the immobilizes already affect bosses with one hit, so dom is pointless there. Without those for ice you have 4 domination-able things, but most of your control comes from ice slick, which can't be boosted by domination.
I remember my mind control dom buddy always being pissed off at me because I didn't need domination to mess with bosses, heh.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
Quote:
You sure do make a habit of being wrong. Linking to a post where you are further wrong is an interesting tactic though. Not new by any means, but interesting.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
won't happen.
|
I'm not sure why you think linking to Arcana's explanation of some of the unique powers of illusion supports what you are saying. That is still a mystery to me. I doubt she would agree with your conclusion because if she does then she is wrong too and she is rarely wrong largely in part because she doesn't take risks with statements.
I question if you have ever played a dominator based on your statement about building domination. Actually I question everything you are saying because it is all false.
Additionally we have this on record:
Quote:
|
Roulette: Any plans still to try and port Illusion to villains? I remember there was a mention once but nothing since. I'd love an illusion MM or Dom Castle: Roulette: If Illusions gets ported (and it likely will, eventually) it would go to Doms, but not MM's. |
Interestingly enough Je Saist, this was already explained to you a couple months ago. Have you forgotten or just chosen to ignore when people prove you wrong?
*golf claps to frosticus' response*
The question I'd pose is this...if phantom army's recharge were halved, but rendered immune to recharge buffs, would those wishing for the set still want it?
I ask because I'm guessing there's a bit of a disconnect....balanced by the assumption they'd get Phantom army out pretty often using +recharge bonuses, illusion is pretty extremely cool. Heck, my illusion controller went that route and she rocks the house.
But if you assume no external recharge, an illusion dom become a bit more hit and miss. Solo it would still be good. Decieve, blind, spectral wounds, and superior invisibility would make an odd sort of 'stalker dom.' High damage, with more ST control. Spectral terror is good for soft control, but fears are best when layered with other control. They work (especially on teams) more like an impermanent immobilize with a heavy -recharge, as they guarantee the foe can only do one attack every other 5-10 seconds. This is where things get trickier for the dom...the dom can then get attacked, but usually doesn't have a native healing ability. (Besides /psi.) Flash is there, but a PbAoE with its long recharge/short duration isn't fast enough for a larger group standby power. Phantom Army on base recharge is good, but it's not there reliably; and when the phantoms disappear, it leaves the dom in a tricky spot. Phantasm helps with its distraction, but is not actually that tough. The dom has no way of boosting its longevity. As such, if the dom gets it to take all of her/his damage, it'll go down pretty fast.
Group invisibility is left out, as with superior invis it's only worth is as an ally buff...which seems very out of place on a dom.
I enjoy illusion, but It would be a very uneven SO dom control build. Still good? Yes. But its 'every mob' control powers are rather limited, and only three powers from the entire set could be influenced by the archetype inherent ability. I really don't see why on an SO presumption some are slavering over it for doms.
Now if they gave a reliable AoE group sleep/stun/confuse in the place of group invis, I could get behind it. (Sleep seems the most obvious pick here.) But as it stands, the set just seems really low on "stop attacking me!" oomph.
I'd think they'd swap out Spectral Wounds and Group Invis(and maybe Superior Invis too) for something that would be more beneficial to the AT. Doms already have plenty of attacks, so they don't need another in their primary.
As long as PA isn't the only control that's reliable in the set, I wouldn't have a problem with making it unaffected by recharge bonuses. Maybe they could make Spectral Terror effected by Domination also? Maybe give it the same tech that they gave the Warshade fluffies, and have all the buffs transfer over to it when it's summoned?
Though, problem is, I can't think of any other controls that would fit the Illusion concept.
japan
Quote:
Is your question: would you still play a set if one or more of the powers was randomly and arbitrarily changed for no reason? The only answer is - maybe.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
The question I'd pose is this...if phantom army's recharge were halved, but rendered immune to recharge buffs, would those wishing for the set still want it?
|
Would I specifically still play Illusion if you massively nerfed PA so it was only as good as it currently is with SO's?...probably not unless other stuff was improved considerably.
Quote:
| Group invisibility is left out, as with superior invis it's only worth is as an ally buff...which seems very out of place on a dom. |
Quote:
|
I enjoy illusion, but It would be a very uneven SO dom control build. Still good? Yes. But its 'every mob' control powers are rather limited, and only three powers from the entire set could be influenced by the archetype inherent ability. I really don't see why on an SO presumption some are slavering over it for doms. Now if they gave a reliable AoE group sleep/stun/confuse in the place of group invis, I could get behind it. (Sleep seems the most obvious pick here.) But as it stands, the set just seems really low on "stop attacking me!" oomph. |
If gravity and mind are acceptable team dominators from a control perspective then illusion will be fine.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angelwing
I'd think they'd swap out Spectral Wounds and Group Invis(and maybe Superior Invis too) for something that would be more beneficial to the AT. Doms already have plenty of attacks, so they don't need another in their primary.
|
Group invis is a great power and fits into the spirit tree family of group buffs. While rare for dominators to have there is precedent.
Sup invis is the only odd duck, but it is actually just as redundant on illusion controllers as well. It is however a signature power of illusion, so likely isn't going anywhere.
Quote:
|
As long as PA isn't the only control that's reliable in the set, I wouldn't have a problem with making it unaffected by recharge bonuses. Maybe they could make Spectral Terror effected by Domination also? Maybe give it the same tech that they gave the Warshade fluffies, and have all the buffs transfer over to it when it's summoned? Though, problem is, I can't think of any other controls that would fit the Illusion concept. |
Does spectral terror draw aggro to you? I didn't think it did, but I never got it on my illusion controller.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
Do I think Illusion would be bad for Doms? I dont think It would be and it would be a nice set, but I do think it would be better for Masterminds with adjustments to the indestructable pets.
P.S. I rather see Dark Control with Dark Assault for dominators or my idea for Riot Control with Rifle Assault for Doms.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=227020
Quote:
The reason I asked about the non-rechargable PA is simply this: I get the feeling a lot of those hoping for illusion/ doms are doing so from the set assumption of crazy +recharge permadom IO builds. (Same as their crazy +recharge perma-PA controllers.) While crazy powerful, I'm trying to look at this from a more common standpoint: what does it work like outside of said setups? "I want perma-PA, oh yeah, and maybe that set that comes with it!" seems like a narrow a focus. Outside of that setup, does it still hold up for doms, or would it need changes? Because I assure you that in their considerations, the devs aren't starting there.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Is your question: would you still play a set if one or more of the powers was randomly and arbitrarily changed for no reason? The only answer is - maybe.
Would I specifically still play Illusion if you massively nerfed PA so it was only as good as it currently is with SO's?...probably not unless other stuff was improved considerably. Group invis easily fits into the same family as spirit tree. Spirit Tree was specifically designed for use on doms as plant was originally designed for them. Spectral Terror. If gravity and mind are acceptable team dominators from a control perspective then illusion will be fine. Well mind and grav retained their direct attacks. Spec wounds is a better attack than any of theirs. Group invis is a great power and fits into the spirit tree family of group buffs. While rare for dominators to have there is precedent. Sup invis is the only odd duck, but it is actually just as redundant on illusion controllers as well. It is however a signature power of illusion, so likely isn't going anywhere. There is no compelling reason to alter PA. Even if there is, it wasn't presented. Just stating "would you still play x" is not a compelling reason. |
As to the group invis/spirit tree: what if plant had a personal +regen, AND spirit tree, but they did not stack? Oh, and the personal +regen was a lot more potent...this is where illusion/ stands. Spirit tree is useful solo. Group invis+superior invis solo? Not worth it in almost any circumstance.
Spectral terror is handy, and is the standby use-every spawn power, but I'd just like something besides that would reliably stop groups of stuff from attacking the dom. Controllers benefit from secondaries that dull enemy offense, deflect/reduce damage, and/or heal it away. Doms not so much.
As to comparing illusion/ to gravity, not quite there. My point was that illusion offered uneven (and sometimes thin) protection in theory to doms. Your response was to compare it to....gravity? It's an oddball, but it still can sling out 3 AoE controls, two faster recharging, and has the highest mitigation, toughest permsnent pet in-game for controls. Illusion/ and Mind/ are so vastly different I'm kinda left scratching my head. It's about as different as you can get. It's like comparing trick arrow to empathy.
*edit* and oh yeah...superior invisibility has to stay. Illusion/ is all about misdirection, which doesn't work if you're obvious and revealed. Spectral wounds would be so brutal on dominator modifiers that I'm guessing they'd tone it down...all the same, it should stay as it's the "control through making them believe they're dying" power.
It will happen eventually and it should, not every power from every control set benefit from domination. Why hold Illusion to a different set of rules? Ice Control has how many? I know my Spirit Tree on my plant/fire dom doesn't benefit from domination. Again, what's the big deal on people expecting Illusion to work well with Domination?
Quote:
PA is a large part of the control matrix of Illusion. Would you still play fire control if Flashfire had a locked recharge?|
Originally Posted by Seldom
The reason I asked about the non-rechargable PA is simply this: I get the feeling a lot of those hoping for illusion/ doms are doing so from the set assumption of crazy +recharge permadom IO builds. (Same as their crazy +recharge perma-PA controllers.)
|
It's an irrelevant question because even though I think Castle makes some nonsensical decisions he wouldn't make that decision.
Quote:
| While crazy powerful, I'm trying to look at this from a more common standpoint: what does it work like outside of said setups? "I want perma-PA, oh yeah, and maybe that set that comes with it!" seems like a narrow a focus. Outside of that setup, does it still hold up for doms, or would it need changes? Because I assure you that in their considerations, the devs aren't starting there. |
Quote:
| As to the group invis/spirit tree: what if plant had a personal +regen, AND spirit tree, but they did not stack? Oh, and the personal +regen was a lot more potent...this is where illusion/ stands. Spirit tree is useful solo. Group invis+superior invis solo? Not worth it in almost any circumstance. |
Quote:
| Spectral terror is handy, and is the standby use-every spawn power, but I'd just like something besides that would reliably stop groups of stuff from attacking the dom. Controllers benefit from secondaries that dull enemy offense, deflect/reduce damage, and/or heal it away. Doms not so much. |
I get that you want more but it is unwarranted. Though if your premise is to nerf PA then ya I could see wanting and even needing more.
Anyway, Spec Terror is very good. It blows terrify out of the water and most people admit that terrify is the go to control for mind vs most spawns. Not only is spec terror capable of mezzing bosses (thus no need to be affected by domination really) it can also floor the tohit chance of a single tough entity and/or greatly reduce the tohit chance of an entire spawn.
You really don't need more control than spec terror offers in most team situations and when you do you still have confuse, PA, Phantasm+decoy, blind and flash to supplement as needed. It's not earth control in its ability to lock down 4 full spawns at once, but it doesn't need to be.
Quote:
| As to comparing illusion/ to gravity, not quite there. My point was that illusion offered uneven (and sometimes thin) protection in theory to doms. Your response was to compare it to....gravity? It's an oddball, but it still can sling out 3 AoE controls, two faster recharging, and has the highest mitigation, toughest permsnent pet in-game for controls. |
Quote:
|
Illusion/ and Mind/ are so vastly different I'm kinda left scratching my head. It's about as different as you can get. It's like comparing trick arrow to empathy.
|
A great counter to bring up would be that mass hyp is awesome at preventing over agro of nearby spawns. Yep it is. You want to know what is even better at it? Group Invis. I kid you not.
I'm not sure if you are expecting doms to be the be-all-to-end-all in terms of control, but almost all non-perma doms let significant amounts of damage/agro slip through onto the team. They are designed to.
Quote:
| *edit* and oh yeah...superior invisibility has to stay. Illusion/ is all about misdirection, which doesn't work if you're obvious and revealed. Spectral wounds would be so brutal on dominator modifiers that I'm guessing they'd tone it down...all the same, it should stay as it's the "control through making them believe they're dying" power. |
86.6 damage
-33.8 damage after 10 sec delay
Comparatively:
lift/levitate
=69.7 damage
propel
=103.5 damage
It would certainly be decent provided you kill the target quickly (just like it is for trollers), but I wouldn't use the descriptor "brutal" myself and I see no reason for it requiring an sort of reduction.
Anyway, you shouldn't be so worried about how a low recharge Illusion dom will fair because they will be fine. You should be worried that a high recharge Illusion dom won't hold a candle to most other doms in terms of team control. It will however make up for that shortcoming with other strengths.
Quote:
This. I, for one, welcome our misdirecting, light-bending overlords. I've been waiting for a Dark Illusion (and we'd just color it up w/ power customization now) set for Villains for years now. Ever since I saw Malaise throw it around.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Anyway, you shouldn't be so worried about how a low recharge Illusion dom will fair because they will be fine. You should be worried that a high recharge Illusion dom won't hold a candle to most other doms in terms of team control. It will however make up for that shortcoming with other strengths.
|
I'd take it any which way I could get it but I'd certainly *want* Spectral Terror, Spectral Wounds, the Invisibilities, etc. It's such an awesome set and it never did much in having hard holds on Blue side, I don't expect it to have much on Red side either.
My Corner of DeviantART
The Queen's Menagerie
Quote:
I'm not asking for a PA nerf, so please look past that. I'm trying to get the people looking toward specifically one build setup to take a step back and look at the broader picture. But if all you can do is bristle and shout "NO TOUCHIE!" than the point went over your head.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
PA is a large part of the control matrix of Illusion. Would you still play fire control if Flashfire had a locked recharge?
It's an irrelevant question because even though I think Castle makes some nonsensical decisions he wouldn't make that decision. Illusion is designed and balanced around SO's. Not every controller has a secondary that has ways of "softening up mobs". I can assure you that Illusion is a strong enough primary to solo most content on its own. It will be no different for a dominator in that regard. I'm sure you are trying to make a point here, but it just isn't coming across. Not every power in every set has to work harmoniously. How well do grav powers work with dimension shift? How's the knockdown of earthquake work when I cast stone cages on top? Redundancy and/or conflict of powers certainly isn't unique to Illusion and it isn't even much of an issue for the set compared some others. You DO have other things that will stop groups from attacking the dom. Confuse, PA, Phantasm+decoy, reduced threat modifier, flash and mitigation through foe defeat. I get that you want more but it is unwarranted. Though if your premise is to nerf PA then ya I could see wanting and even needing more. Anyway, Spec Terror is very good. It blows terrify out of the water and most people admit that terrify is the go to control for mind vs most spawns. Not only is spec terror capable of mezzing bosses (thus no need to be affected by domination really) it can also floor the tohit chance of a single tough entity and/or greatly reduce the tohit chance of an entire spawn. You really don't need more control than spec terror offers in most team situations and when you do you still have confuse, PA, Phantasm+decoy, blind and flash to supplement as needed. It's not earth control in its ability to lock down 4 full spawns at once, but it doesn't need to be. Gravity heavily relies on one aoe mez for the majority of its team mitigation. Wormhole in all its greatness is not any better than spec terror. Also last time I talked to singularity it told me it has wet dreams about phantasm+decoy and PA and what they do. Mind also relies heavily on one aoe control: terrify. Or at least it does if we are sticking by your "non-uber recharge" parameters. Mass hyp tends to be verging on useless in most team scenarios and spec terror is considerably better than terrify in every way. If a low recharge mind dom provides enough control for a team than a low recharge illusion dom will similarly have no issues. A great counter to bring up would be that mass hyp is awesome at preventing over agro of nearby spawns. Yep it is. You want to know what is even better at it? Group Invis. I kid you not. I'm not sure if you are expecting doms to be the be-all-to-end-all in terms of control, but almost all non-perma doms let significant amounts of damage/agro slip through onto the team. They are designed to. Spec Wounds will do: 86.6 damage -33.8 damage after 10 sec delay Comparatively: lift/levitate =69.7 damage propel =103.5 damage It would certainly be decent provided you kill the target quickly (just like it is for trollers), but I wouldn't use the descriptor "brutal" myself and I see no reason for it requiring an sort of reduction. Anyway, you shouldn't be so worried about how a low recharge Illusion dom will fair because they will be fine. You should be worried that a high recharge Illusion dom won't hold a candle to most other doms in terms of team control. It will however make up for that shortcoming with other strengths. |
My point for group invis/suprior invis as compared to a spirit tree was this: you said that doms get team buffs, like spirit tree. As such, getting group invis is fine. It's a false comparison, as spirit tree is NOT specifically a group buff, but rather an AoE +regen. It can just be for you, it can be for team mates. Well, so can group invis...but the fact is that the dom gets an identical but better toggle in superior invis, which makes group invis FAR less potent to them. Hence my comments about targeting this for replacement, to add a personal AoE soft control.
I'd personally put in an AoE sleep. I know many find them 'useless' but they have two big draws for a dom: solo, they make stuff stop until you target them, and on teams, they can often change aggro direction you sleep them, and don't touch them. somebody wakes them with an attack...it's that somebody that often then has their ire, not you.
Oh, and group invis has nothing on mass hypnosis. Once one team memeber is aggroed, your entire team is too, due to aggro sharing rules. Mass hypnosis? Snoozin.' Plus attacking 'reveals' invis characters.
Quote:
I dont think this is right at all. Illusion would work fine on doms. Illusion has a single target and an aoe hold, just like every other dom set. True enough it doesnt have other controls but being a dom is more than just control. My biggest fear is they will gut the set similar to how they did pain domination and it wont end up being a true illusion set for doms.
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
won't happen.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...68&postcount=8 Also, Arcanaville has a good explination on the the design behind the illusion set: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=58 The short version is this: Illusion Control does not fit the intended Dominator Play style. Beyond anything else, building domination would be extremely difficult and would require significant changes to the set itself, which would no longer make it an illusion control. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
Well you certainly seem to know what you are talking about so far be it for me to correct so much misinformation but here goes...|
Originally Posted by Seldom
I'm not asking for a PA nerf, so please look past that. I'm trying to get the people looking toward specifically one build setup to take a step back and look at the broader picture. But if all you can do is bristle and shout "NO TOUCHIE!" than the point went over your head.
My point for group invis/suprior invis as compared to a spirit tree was this: you said that doms get team buffs, like spirit tree. As such, getting group invis is fine. It's a false comparison, as spirit tree is NOT specifically a group buff, but rather an AoE +regen. It can just be for you, it can be for team mates. Well, so can group invis...but the fact is that the dom gets an identical but better toggle in superior invis, which makes group invis FAR less potent to them. Hence my comments about targeting this for replacement, to add a personal AoE soft control. I'd personally put in an AoE sleep. I know many find them 'useless' but they have two big draws for a dom: solo, they make stuff stop until you target them, and on teams, they can often change aggro direction you sleep them, and don't touch them. somebody wakes them with an attack...it's that somebody that often then has their ire, not you. |
GI is not FAR less potent than SI. For the purposes of providing invisibility against mobs they are identical. Identical as in they both provide full invisibility. SI would provide invisibility in situations where something is reducing your stealth radius, but that never happens as far as I know in pve.
Additionally GI costs about 1/20th the endurance of SI. GI's threat reduction also doesn't suppress when attacked, which SI's does.
Like I said in a previous post: SI is actually the redundant power not GI and GI is actually the better of the two powers in almost all situations. However, SI is a signature power and not going anywhere.
Quote:
| Oh, and group invis has nothing on mass hypnosis. Once one team memeber is aggroed, your entire team is too, due to aggro sharing rules. Mass hypnosis? Snoozin.' Plus attacking 'reveals' invis characters. |
Quote:
I can agree here. I have an illusion thermal character that stays invis the whole time. All I do is buff and heal while invised and even if the team totally dies the critters seem to never see me and go back to doing what they were before we had aggro. All this with superior invisible.
|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Well you certainly seem to know what you are talking about so far be it for me to correct so much misinformation but here goes...
GI is not FAR less potent than SI. For the purposes of providing invisibility against mobs they are identical. Identical as in they both provide full invisibility. SI would provide invisibility in situations where something is reducing your stealth radius, but that never happens as far as I know in pve. Additionally GI costs about 1/20th the endurance of SI. GI's threat reduction also doesn't suppress when attacked, which SI's does. Like I said in a previous post: SI is actually the redundant power not GI and GI is actually the better of the two powers in almost all situations. However, SI is a signature power and not going anywhere. haha no. Maybe you should try out GI (or SI) sometime. The things you can do with it might just astound you based on your misconceptions. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
Forgive me, but disagreement≠misconception, thank you. Try this: one person runs into a group, aggroes them. the rest of the team is invisible, and hangs back. The mob will not just focus on that dude...some will peal off and run to the invisible folk, targeting them. Aggro is shared on teams, regardless of visibility. This is a pet peeve for stalkers especially, but I've seen it on my illusion controller in superior invis as well. The upside for doms is that you are given a toggle-1 threat, so you're less of a threat than the team. Thus it's a misdirection in a way. Group invis takes away threat rating from the whole team, making you on-par with them, thus not comparatively less of a threat.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Well you certainly seem to know what you are talking about so far be it for me to correct so much misinformation but here goes...
GI is not FAR less potent than SI. For the purposes of providing invisibility against mobs they are identical. Identical as in they both provide full invisibility. SI would provide invisibility in situations where something is reducing your stealth radius, but that never happens as far as I know in pve. Additionally GI costs about 1/20th the endurance of SI. GI's threat reduction also doesn't suppress when attacked, which SI's does. Like I said in a previous post: SI is actually the redundant power not GI and GI is actually the better of the two powers in almost all situations. However, SI is a signature power and not going anywhere. Haha no. Maybe you should try out GI (or SI) sometime. The things you can do with it might just astound you based on your misconceptions. |
This is besides the fact that SI is never out of stealth, unless clicking a glowie. so if you attack on mob, the next won't notice as easily. Group invis lacks unsupressed stealth when attacking.
Quote:
Unless something has changed fairly recently, agro does not work that way. Aggressive pets will draw you agro though. Perhaps you had a pet summoned that drew you that attention?
|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Forgive me, but disagreement≠misconception, thank you. Try this: one person runs into a group, aggroes them. the rest of the team is invisible, and hangs back. The mob will not just focus on that dude...some will peal off and run to the invisible folk, targeting them. Aggro is shared on teams, regardless of visibility. This is a pet peeve for stalkers especially, but I've seen it on my illusion controller in superior invis as well.
|
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
Quote:
I've noticed it on larger teams, I assume it's when the first player hits their aggro cap.
|
Originally Posted by Computer
Unless something has changed fairly recently, agro does not work that way. Aggressive pets will draw you agro though. Perhaps you had a pet summoned that drew you that attention?
|
Quote:
It is my understanding that the NPCs have a type of 'hit-list' if you will. Even if a player has 17 NPCs after him/her (those 17 NPCs have that player at the top of their hit-list) the other agroed NPCs, who now have no one to attack, don't suddenly put an invisible player (someone who has not generated any threat/attention) on their hit-list. |
Originally Posted by Seldom
I've noticed it on larger teams, I assume it's when the first player hits their aggro cap.
|
Anecdote:
I often farm in a duo where one character is an invisible buffer. Even when my partner gets more-than-cap agro, I never get attacked.
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
Quote:
Huh. That's odd. I know the terror counts as 'you,' so that would cause aggro for sure. but other times I've sat back with superior invis on, and after the tank ran in and got swamped, a minion or two would run out and hit my team mates who hadn't started, sometimes even me in invis. The same thing for a good buddy on his /dark stalker. In full hide, he'd get enemies that ran up and smacked him even before he got his opening assassin strike in...after the rest of the team was involved, of course. I assumed,as such, that the foes were going off the team list, starting with those who hit them/was the highest threat, then going down. I'd read this was the case some time ago, and these instances made me think it true. If it isn't I'm stumped.|
Originally Posted by Computer
It is my understanding that the NPCs have a type of 'hit-list' if you will. Even if a player has 17 NPCs after him/her (those 17 NPCs have that player at the top of their hit-list) the other agroed NPCs, who now have no one to attack, don't suddenly put an invisible player (someone who has not generated any threat/attention) on their hit-list.
Anecdote: I often farm in a duo where one character is an invisible buffer. Even when my partner gets more-than-cap agro, I never get attacked. |
But hey, I've been wrong a good many times before, and am not ashamed to be proven such here. It just means I'll 'get' the game a bit better.
Controller have 7 controls.
Earth, Fire, Gravity, Ice, Illusion, Mind, Plant.
But Dom just have 6 control powers!
Earth, Fire, Gravity, Ice, Mind, Plant
It's unfair, devs!
Why controllers have 7 , doms have 6?