Global Invention Salvage for Each Paid Account
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-07-08 05:25 in Suggestions and Ideas
And how, exactly, would keeping stuff off the market lower prices?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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you do realize that all you have to do is use the AUCTION HOUSES like they were meant to be used right? place a bid and wait. or you can go to the AE and do a mission or 2 and use your TICKETS to get the salvage you want. or you can even e-mail yourself the salvage you need from a different toon.
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Originally Posted by CyberWoLfman
Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity. This would allow us more free time to play the game instead of changing characters to try to find the piece of over-priced Invention Salvage we need for our Recipes, and might act as a way to keep some of those prices down.
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Or you could, you know, place a lower bid on the market and wait for it.|
Originally Posted by CyberWoLfman
Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity. This would allow us more free time to play the game instead of changing characters to try to find the piece of over-priced Invention Salvage we need for our Recipes, and might act as a way to keep some of those prices down.
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Remember, the high "buy it nao" prices you see for this stuff are a tax on impatience and stupidity.
So, no.
And no, it would NOT keep prices down. It'd lead to HOARDING, meaning stuff would get more scarce on the market. Prices would RISE.
If you don't want to wait, and don't want to pay the "buy it nao" price, then go build up a supply of AE tickets and spec-buy your salvage.
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psst... hyper.... look above your post at my post... i think you were reading my mind or something. 
Agreeing with the others above.
I have crafters on both sides (although that won't matter soon) and craft quite a bit. I just place bids for what I will pay. Then log on an alt, go to bed, go outside with my kids, or whatever else, and come back later, and there is my salvage. Only time I ever see high prices is the "I MUST HAVE IT NOW!" bidding.
Additionally, I also never see a rush to add the IOs. I have been on S/TFs where I have dinged more than once, and just leave the slots empty or don't even bother training. I am still able to contribute to the team as before.
/unsigned
Supply and demand doesn't work like the OP thinks.
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Three measly minutes. *PBBBBT!*|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
psst... hyper.... look above your post at my post... i think you were reading my mind or something.
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No, you were reading mine. I was just more verbose about it than you were.
SO NYAH!
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nothing is overpriced, it all sells for exactly what it is worth to customers.|
Originally Posted by CyberWoLfman
Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity. This would allow us more free time to play the game instead of changing characters to try to find the piece of over-priced Invention Salvage we need for our Recipes, and might act as a way to keep some of those prices down.
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And if you're scared of spending your pretend-time play money on salvage run a couple of MA missions and get it with tickets.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I never understand why people don't get this. Things are worth exactly what someone's willing to pay (and, yes, PT Barnum was correct...don't be "that guy").
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Nethergoat goes to the economics: nothing is overpriced, it all sells for exactly what it is worth to customers. |
Dec out.
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ONE THOUSAND?|
Originally Posted by CyberWoLfman
Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity.
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That's a little excessive.
How about a more reasonable number, like 20?
Oh, we have that already?
Never mind then, carry on.
@Roderick
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It's not real money. What do I care how much it costs? Yeah, I am that guy who will pay whatever it takes to get it now. |
Originally Posted by Decorum
I never understand why people don't get this. Things are worth exactly what someone's willing to pay (and, yes, PT Barnum was correct...don't be "that guy").
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Personally? I'd have a hard time caring *less* about the market. As it is, we can email salvage back and forth, store them in slots, in the vault, in the SG base - how would the OP's suggestion have any more or less impact on the market?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
And how, exactly, would keeping stuff off the market lower prices?
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I suspect, quite frankly, that it wouldn't even be noticed. After all, we're repeatedly told nobody can "control" the market through their actions (and "even less so with the upcoming merge!") If that's true for price manipulation (via flipping, buying up stock, etc,) then it's got to be true for letting someone hold a little more salvage globally. (And yes, I see it as a little - I don't think they'd go for 1000 pieces, 200 or so perhaps, sure... and for someone like me, on either account, that's perhaps 2 1/2 pieces per character per account.)
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I think Aett's point was the goal of the OP was to lower market prices with the global storage and he was just one of many pointing out the suggestion would not do that.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Personally? I'd have a hard time caring *less* about the market. As it is, we can email salvage back and forth, store them in slots, in the vault, in the SG base - how would the OP's suggestion have any more or less impact on the market?
I suspect, quite frankly, that it wouldn't even be noticed. After all, we're repeatedly told nobody can "control" the market through their actions (and "even less so with the upcoming merge!") If that's true for price manipulation (via flipping, buying up stock, etc,) then it's got to be true for letting someone hold a little more salvage globally. (And yes, I see it as a little - I don't think they'd go for 1000 pieces, 200 or so perhaps, sure... and for someone like me, on either account, that's perhaps 2 1/2 pieces per character per account.) |
Now to a global storage container for an account I have wanted something like that since I9 just like I had in EverQuest.
I do care about the health of the market to a degree in as far as getting things that there is no reasonable way to get otherwise (I'm looking at you purple IOs) but the OPs suggestion would not impact them as far as I can tell.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Well, it should have an impact, for sure. I mean, if you are removing items from circulation, but the demand remains the same, then the prices should go up. It certainly won't DROP prices, as the OP was implying it would. That's the only point I was trying to make.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Personally? I'd have a hard time caring *less* about the market. As it is, we can email salvage back and forth, store them in slots, in the vault, in the SG base - how would the OP's suggestion have any more or less impact on the market?
I suspect, quite frankly, that it wouldn't even be noticed. After all, we're repeatedly told nobody can "control" the market through their actions (and "even less so with the upcoming merge!") If that's true for price manipulation (via flipping, buying up stock, etc,) then it's got to be true for letting someone hold a little more salvage globally. (And yes, I see it as a little - I don't think they'd go for 1000 pieces, 200 or so perhaps, sure... and for someone like me, on either account, that's perhaps 2 1/2 pieces per character per account.) |
How much of an impact this would have on the market would need to be seen. But if you can store 1,000 pieces of salvage in a universal spot on each account, then I'd definitely think that items would go onto the market at a much lower frequency than they are now, which would drive prices up.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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/unsigned|
Originally Posted by CyberWoLfman
Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity. This would allow us more free time to play the game instead of changing characters to try to find the piece of over-priced Invention Salvage we need for our Recipes, and might act as a way to keep some of those prices down.
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Creating loot hoards will only drive up market prices and fill the forums with demands to nerf the Global Invention Salvage feature. What exactly does one player need 1,000 of in the first place?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Three measly minutes. *PBBBBT!*
No, you were reading mine. I was just more verbose about it than you were. SO NYAH! |
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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See... demand wouldn't remain the same. Plus, again - we already have ways of "hoarding." I just don't see this having an impact at all, really. (Though, again, I don't really agree with 1000 since that seems a bit high.) |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, it should have an impact, for sure. I mean, if you are removing items from circulation, but the demand remains the same, then the prices should go up. It certainly won't DROP prices, as the OP was implying it would. That's the only point I was trying to make.
How much of an impact this would have on the market would need to be seen. But if you can store 1,000 pieces of salvage in a universal spot on each account, then I'd definitely think that items would go onto the market at a much lower frequency than they are now, which would drive prices up. |
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Originally Posted by McBoo
Creating loot hoards will only drive up market prices and fill the forums with demands to nerf the Global Invention Salvage feature. What exactly does one player need 1,000 of in the first place?
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Honestly, even if it *were* 1000 (which, if it were ever brought into game, I highly doubt it would be) that's a drop in the bucket compared to what's generated daily. 50 people, 20 pieces of salvage... how long do you think that takes to generate?
Sorry, I see the "it would drive market prices up!" as complete and utter bull. (Not to mention that, well, some people who'd use this tend to avoid the market anyway. Not getting business from people who wouldn't use your business anyway = no impact on your prices.)
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Memphis,|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
See... demand wouldn't remain the same. Plus, again - we already have ways of "hoarding." I just don't see this having an impact at all, really. (Though, again, I don't really agree with 1000 since that seems a bit high.)
Who said it'd be 1000 of one item? And again, if we're told over and over that one person can't manipulate the market by the marketeers, why are we seeing that as "not a valid argument" here? We can already make "loot hoards" if we want - one base, 18 storage racks, 30 pieces each (which is already over half the OP's suggestion @540 pieces,) plus 10 of whatever in each market slot just sitting there (rising by level/market activity,) plus personal storage and vault storage. Honestly, even if it *were* 1000 (which, if it were ever brought into game, I highly doubt it would be) that's a drop in the bucket compared to what's generated daily. 50 people, 20 pieces of salvage... how long do you think that takes to generate? Sorry, I see the "it would drive market prices up!" as complete and utter bull. (Not to mention that, well, some people who'd use this tend to avoid the market anyway. Not getting business from people who wouldn't use your business anyway = no impact on your prices.) |
Yes, we are told that one player cannot manipulate the market to the point that it becomes unreasonable. This is because with different people doing different things, nobody is working towards the same point. It is also because few people are doing this, and most people are still putting things up for fairly cheap prices. As such, you have a majority self-correcting the attempt to manipulate, which causes it to fail.
However, if you add to that the ability for EVERYONE, with no effort, to hold things off the market to a large extent (especially if going by the OP's 1,000 salvage case, versus the 20 that we can do now) and you get a different beast at work.
Right now, I am betting that relatively few people use the e-mail feature to store salvage, since it's a non-intuitive use of the system. Make a system that is specifically designed to hold a large amount of salvage across your account, and more people will use it.
As such, you would be removing items from the market that would otherwise go into it, which would lower demand. Most people would only hold onto rare salvage, since that is the rarest and most valuable. Right now, I tend to put any rare salvage I don't need on the market, because I know that the influence will likely be more valuable to me in the long run, allowing me to buy any other rare salvage I need, or even the same item later on if I need it. Allow me to universally store a large amount of rare salvage, and holding onto it becomes more useful in the long run. So you'd remove my desire to put even unwanted items on the market. If the storage is large enough that I am unlikely to run out of space before I get the item that I want, then there is no downside to holding onto my items.
A large enough storage space would indeed affect the market. The easier it is to use, the more it would affect the market.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I still can't agree, though. I just don't see it having an impact - if it did anything, it would (I'd think) *lessen* demand, again if it actually had any effect. Why?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Memphis,
Yes, we are told that one player cannot manipulate the market to the point that it becomes unreasonable. This is because with different people doing different things, nobody is working towards the same point. It is also because few people are doing this, and most people are still putting things up for fairly cheap prices. As such, you have a majority self-correcting the attempt to manipulate, which causes it to fail. However, if you add to that the ability for EVERYONE, with no effort, to hold things off the market to a large extent (especially if going by the OP's 1,000 salvage case, versus the 20 that we can do now) and you get a different beast at work. Right now, I am betting that relatively few people use the e-mail feature to store salvage, since it's a non-intuitive use of the system. Make a system that is specifically designed to hold a large amount of salvage across your account, and more people will use it. As such, you would be removing items from the market that would otherwise go into it, which would lower demand. Most people would only hold onto rare salvage, since that is the rarest and most valuable. Right now, I tend to put any rare salvage I don't need on the market, because I know that the influence will likely be more valuable to me in the long run, allowing me to buy any other rare salvage I need, or even the same item later on if I need it. Allow me to universally store a large amount of rare salvage, and holding onto it becomes more useful in the long run. So you'd remove my desire to put even unwanted items on the market. If the storage is large enough that I am unlikely to run out of space before I get the item that I want, then there is no downside to holding onto my items. A large enough storage space would indeed affect the market. The easier it is to use, the more it would affect the market. |
Current situation:
I have Memphis Bill on Pinnacle. Runs through a map, gets a nice string of (say) three Mu Vestments. He has no use for them right now, so I'll do a combination of some of the below things:
- Put in personal storage.
- Put in SG storage (we do share salvage this way,)
- Come next issue, put in email.
- Give to a friend who is trying to get IOs made.
- Put on the market for 5 inf. (My typical pricing. Also generally my last choice.)
However, my Brute on Virtue could really use this, and has lousy luck with drops. Do I go to the market to buy it? Nope, since I don't like where they're priced. I can wait and *maybe* get one, or kill time in MA and get one for 500 tickets, bypassing the market completely.
Global storage solution:
Same vestments drop. Same options - plus one. Drop in personal "global storage." Log into brute, and pick it up.
I still just don't see this having any noticable negative impact on the market (especially with the upcoming merge.) If the reaction is to keep salvage for yourself - which, for me, it already is, keeping for myself or my SG/friends in many instances - then perhaps the people using the market (both bidders and sellers) need to reexamine their bids/ask prices.
(Again, I think 1000 salvage pieces would be too much, yes, but other than that, no problem with the idea.)
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What about then the changes in GR then with sending to the other side and market merge?
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I have Memphis Bill on Pinnacle.
... However, my Brute on Virtue could really use this, and has lousy luck with drops. |
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Both listed. *points up*
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
What about then the changes in GR then with sending to the other side and market merge?
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Then I am confused by your post, oh well. I mean we can make "mule" toons to store stuff, use email, use SG bins. Just how much more do you want? Your post sounds like you just don't want to bother logging on a different toon and send what you need.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Both listed. *points up*
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I kinda think that's Bill's point. This change won't effect anything to do with the markets as so much storage is already available. It then becomes a QoL issue as it saves mule toons and alting to find that piece of salvage you wanted.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Then I am confused by your post, oh well. I mean we can make "mule" toons to store stuff, use email, use SG bins. Just how much more do you want? Your post sounds like you just don't want to bother logging on a different toon and send what you need.
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Thanks Diggis. That makes more sense. I guess I am not seeing an issue with this from Bill PoV.
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Originally Posted by Diggis
I kinda think that's Bill's point. This change won't effect anything to do with the markets as so much storage is already available. It then becomes a QoL issue as it saves mule toons and alting to find that piece of salvage you wanted.
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Just a suggestion, but, what would really be nice, would be a Global Invention Salvage for each paid account of 1,000 capacity. This would allow us more free time to play the game instead of changing characters to try to find the piece of over-priced Invention Salvage we need for our Recipes, and might act as a way to keep some of those prices down.
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