Best AT and powers for no-set-IOs toon?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2010-07-07 20:52 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I would actually put Traps way above FF for what you're describing (as I would in any other situation). Provides better everything except pure defense, which is to say it provides things beyond defense. Traps is SUPER AWESOME out of the box and if you can add on niceties like procs, def, and more rech it gets even better, and it works well with pretty much every secondary, though Ice and Sonic are pretty strong. The thing about FF is that if there are others sources of +def on a team, it doesn't contribute much.
Actually, every Defender primary is better than FF all of the time, except maybe TA, and even then TA still wins most of the time, but certain teams will play better with shields where they can run around crazy as opposed to area debuffs that take slightly more finesse.
As far as other ATs go, Regen Scrappers are really good without IOs, most Scrapper primaries are fine as well. A lot of people like BS or Katana for easy softcapping with no IOs too. Other ATs have to invest a lot to become either as strong or as survivable as Scraps in general.
The king of awesome no IO builds are MMs, though, IOs do not mean much to them overall, and they are extremely strong pretty much all the time. Thugs or Bots are the strongest, with Dark being the strongest secondary, or maybe Traps.
Rad/Sonic defender.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Well, at high levels SO-only rad would have problems soloing (Judging by my Rad/Rad main. Carnie mistresses etc. still can kill you easily, near-perma AM, stacked stun and all.) |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Rad/Sonic defender.
|
As for Traps... I have a Traps defender in the low 30s and like him, but on a large team it suffers from "everything's dead just after you deployed your AM and PGT" problem. You can fix it with enough +rech, I guess, but that's expensive slotting.
As for FF in general, - yes, that's one-trick pony set if there ever was one, but that's the point, - it does that one trick perfectly with minimal investment.
BS or Katana scrapper... Now that's something worth thinking about in this context... Thanks for great idea!
SS/WP Brute
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Any /kin controller. Kin handles just about everything IO set bonus's do except defense. It works better for trollers since they have better mitigation than a corr/fender.
As was mentioned, MM's are pretty good with SO's.
SR scrapper with Elude (if you're using sets, you don't need Elude to hit the defense softcap).
I've got a Katana/Elec scrapper who does well with a mix of SOs and Hami-Os. I went with straight SOs for a while, but the extra damage from HOs in Divine Avalanche and Golden Dragonfly is very nice.
Stone tank, but only if you team with a Kinetics (without Speed Boost, and without sets, you'll have speed problems).
Any mastermind, but especially /Traps.
Quote:
I don't think FF will be better soloing than Rad. As for your problem with Traps, any character can be made irrelevant on a large enough team that is steamrolling(including FF, especially FF if there's any other +def). That just means they need to turn the difficulty up a notch or two.|
Originally Posted by 3dent
Well, at high levels SO-only rad would have problems soloing (Judging by my Rad/Rad main. Carnie mistresses etc. still can kill you easily, near-perma AM, stacked stun and all.)
As for Traps... I have a Traps defender in the low 30s and like him, but on a large team it suffers from "everything's dead just after you deployed your AM and PGT" problem. You can fix it with enough +rech, I guess, but that's expensive slotting. As for FF in general, - yes, that's one-trick pony set if there ever was one, but that's the point, - it does that one trick perfectly with minimal investment. BS or Katana scrapper... Now that's something worth thinking about in this context... Thanks for great idea! |
To be fair, Traps is not necessarily a good powerset for a super new or super casual player, because it takes a little forethought and it isn't necessarily obvious what you're contributing if you don't know the game well. For that matter, I would say that Defender in general wouldn't be a good choice. Now that I think about it, your premise of AWESOME on SOs for a very new or casual player doesn't make much sense to me. Put 'em on a large team and any old thing will do.
My forcefield experience is a couple years out of date, but when I was a forcefielder I could actually invite myself to teams- search on "Blaster", click on a greyed out name, and ask "Does your team have any use for a Force Fielder?" I'm pretty sure that some guys actually beat up the team leader and took the star away from them to invite me.
When I was forming the team, it was like "Forcefield, three blasters, and anyone else who's around." It's like there's a bug zapper about eighty feet in front of the party. It's not a playstyle you see much, because everyone wants someone ELSE to be the force fielder, but it's a very effective one.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
If you want to feel "strong" personally with little to no investment, I'd agree with a /WP Brute. SS for better AoE, SM (with Fault) if you just want to giggle at things while they're trying to kill you.
If you want to be able to take out GMs using just SOs, make a MM. Everything everyone has said good about Traps holds true for them, plus they can put the traps down without ever losing DPS; I actually stripped all of the IOs out of my Thugs/Traps because they simply didn't matter, and put them on characters that actually needed them to achieve the same performance. As for "best primary", I'd throw Demon Summoning into the running.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
Quote:
Any Anything/Anything Anything. Really, without IOs, the game is pretty well balanced, with a handful of outliers. That said, I've found my Dark/Elec Defender and Dark/Elec Brute to both be capable of handling darn near anything the game can throw at them without significant IOs.
|
Originally Posted by 3dent
Thought about it for a while now... You don't have bajillion inf, and/or patience for bids on rare stuff to fill (say, you're very new or very casual player), but you still want your character to be AWESOME. What AT/powers would fit the bill?
|
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Quote:
Yep, I'd agree with this. MMs don't need IO bonuses to do well and while anyone can benefit from frankenslotting MMs can be light on slots anyway.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
If you want to feel "strong" personally with little to no investment, I'd agree with a /WP Brute. SS for better AoE, SM (with Fault) if you just want to giggle at things while they're trying to kill you.
If you want to be able to take out GMs using just SOs, make a MM. Everything everyone has said good about Traps holds true for them, plus they can put the traps down without ever losing DPS; I actually stripped all of the IOs out of my Thugs/Traps because they simply didn't matter, and put them on characters that actually needed them to achieve the same performance. As for "best primary", I'd throw Demon Summoning into the running. |
Anything/Traps MM would be my choice.
I think several AT's work just fine with SO's. Of course, how you define
"AWESOME" is a factor as well. 
I'd certainly agree with /WP Brute being one of them.
A Kheldian PB (bi-form or tri-form) can also be pretty effective on just an SO build.
To that, I'd also add the good old BA/Ice Tank, which I was playing before
the market - in PvE it's darned near indestructible (it's utterly worthless in
PvP however).
If you don't mind solo play and/or a more deliberate pace, a Stalker is a
viable choice as well, and unlike the tank, it can perform decently in PvP
on SO's as well (with the addition of a Stealth IO).
I'm sure several others would be quite effective with minimum cost builds,
but all of these are toons I have direct experience with myself.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Willpower/fire tank would be good. Willpower on any AT would actually be good. It really doesn't need any IO's to be good. They help, sure, but it's pretty strong without.
plant/fire, traps/x, fire/rad(troll), fire/dark(corr), mm
A WP/ tank is pretty much playing with "easy mode" on even on SO's if you don't self-gimp your power picks and slotting. Pick a high damage melee like SS or SM for Scranker, or one of the elemental melees for some control or utility as you prefer.
I'm pretty sure Bots/Traps MMs have soloed some GMs with SO-only builds, and quite a few AVs. They're a bit annoying at low levels due to lacking AoEs, but once you hit 32 you start mowing down everything in sight. Really, any combination of Bots or Thugs and /Traps, /Dark, or /Storm will be fun and effective. (/Storm probably less so with no global recharge than /Dark or /Traps, but it's so fun to play I have to include it. 
)
Brutes or Scrappers can also be quite good on SOs, as can Tanks if you don't mind slow (but very tough) solo speeds. Nothing really compares to a good Mastermind though for being effective without IOs.
Though one thing you should keep in mind is that SOs are not the cheapest route. Frankenslotting with cheap set IOs (the ones with lousy set bonuses that aren't popular) in the late 20s to early 30s is cheaper than SOs... you pay more up front but for a few million you can get significantly higher enhancement values (8-9 SOs worth in 6 slots) and a few minor set bonuses. Buying SOs at 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 costs more than that, so you save in the long run. It's easy to get a few million by level 30 or so by just listing your salvage and any recipe drops that have current bids on the market for 1 inf an item... no marketing knowledge needed. Frankenslotting makes Brutes and Scrappers far more attractive because you can slot some decent recharge and endurance reduction in your attacks while still ED capping damage and getting plenty of accuracy. Melee ATs seem to have worse endurance issues so being able to squeeze in more end reduction is a huge help.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I have a Bots/Traps MM and he's all SO's...works very well. I've been considering the frankenslot route (sitting tight at 35 waiting for Rogue), but haven't been motivated to do it due to lack of a sg / base for that character and because I just generally don't like zoning around red-side to get things done. I tend to log on, grind thru solo missions, park on a day job and log off once or twice a month for a couple hours at a stretch. Bots / Traps is fun, but its a lot of micromanagement and I'm not always in the mood; plus I love masterminds, bit I really don't like red side.
I agree some kind of Mastermind would work well.
On the Controller side, I'd say something like an Earth/Storm Controller, but only after level 32 where it starts to get some damage. Before that its really nice to have a team (I would say almost required to level efficiently... but as soon as I do someone will show up to say they soloed their Emp/Elec Defender with nothing but pool powers and no vet attacks and enjoyed every minute of it.)
Right off the bat, I'd say a Mastermind is probably what you want to roll. It's easy to solo most missions on SO's with as a Mastermind. Yes, it does take a little bit of skills but you're asking for a toon that would work well on just SO's and this is that toon.
I'd recommend anything/Dark but more specifically Thugs/Dark. Dark's got a ton of survivability and "OH CRAP!" buttons.
> Darkest Night will make everything pretty easy to handle.
> A strong AoE heal that will keep you and all your henchmen happy.
> An auto-hit Rez that AoE stuns everything around the target. It's also great for soloing AV's since it's got that -500% regeneration debuff.
> An AoE intangible power, Black Hole, just in case crap does hit the ceiling.
> A Fluffy pet that pretty much has half of your /Dark powers.
Thought about it for a while now... You don't have bajillion inf, and/or patience for bids on rare stuff to fill (say, you're very new or very casual player), but you still want your character to be AWESOME. What AT/powers would fit the bill?
The best I could come up with is FF/Ice with Leadership, - played and built even half-competently it is all-caps awesome addition to any team, and can solo decently thanks to two blaster-damage attacks and two ST holds. No need for perma-anything, and the only thing that would be nice to have and requires sets is self-softcap.
Are there any other combinations?