What Changes are needed to make Stalkers an acceptable addition to a Team?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
That you tricked yourself into believing 'you must have x and therefore the game is obligated to provide it to you' is your own failing, not the game's. It's the same argument the 'Make Stamina inherent' posters make. Because a powerset doesn't provide endurance management while others do so they 'need' stamina is the basic reason for that suggestion and it too is flawed.
I would make that argument about stamina. If your set doesn't have end management, then you do need stamina. That design decision was complete crap and does nothing to enhance the game.

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But honestly, you defeat your own argument. This thread seems to be about why Stalkers are 'bad' yet your issue is with Energy Melee and Martial Arts. How about go making a thread on how to improve those sets then?
And a scrapper with MA does have a good AoE and the option to take a good epic pool AoE. Would it be better if there were more? Yes, but the difference between 2 and 4 AoEs is less that the difference between .5 and 3 AoEs.

It's not just those sets that suck - although, each is weak on it's own - it's also those particularly weak sets applied to stalkers with changes that make them even weaker and are then given the stalker PPPs that almost completely lack AoE. It's not the powersets that are the total problem, it's the powersets combined with everything else involved in being a stalker. Stalkers don't get off innocent in the badness calculation just because MA and EM are kind of crappy already.


 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
I would make that argument about stamina. If your set doesn't have end management, then you do need stamina. That design decision was complete crap and does nothing to enhance the game.
Of course, slotting your attacks for endurance reduction (plus at least one in each of the under 0.30/s toggles, with more in the larger ones, of course) is out of the question, so Stamina is mandatory. After all, you might have to sacrifice accuracy, recharge or damage for the better endurance efficiency, which would be unthinkable.

Bah.


 

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Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
But on the flip side, honestly I never seen a someone say don't pick up the stalker. But I would imagine there are many things I have not seen in the game. I think the Stalker effect is more magnified when the team is also lacking. If you have 8 players on a team and only 2 are defense capped then you start to see the usual Stalker attacks unannounced and then everyone running to help him. Healer dies from Heal aggro and then the chain reaction starts as players drop like flies leaving maybe the 2 defense capped players to mop up.. Of course sometimes they can get even overwhelmed and drop eventually.

On the other hand if you have a decent amount of player Defense capped, let us say 4 out of a group of 8. Then it really doesn't matter what the rest of the team is setup since the reality is those 4 are holding up the rest of the team by taking on the aggro.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of how aggro works in this game. Healing doesn't create aggro (it's actually possible to completely avoid aggroing mobs except by proximity if you do nothing but heal). Only offensive power use (controls, debuffs, and damage) and proximity (just being close to the mobs) creates aggro.

And you need characters with the taunt effect (basically brutes and tankers who gets it in their attacks and an aura from their armor sets, or anyone who takes Provoke from the Presence pool) to really lock down aggro. But Dominators can really lock mobs down, and with enough defensive buffs or debuffs (like Dark Miasma plummeting their hit chances to near naught), you don't really need taunters.

But yeah, you understand how useful well played Stalkers can be.

As for the main subject of the topic, I think my Elec/Nin Stalker is largely just fine except for perhaps using a little more survability (thus my plans to softcap her). That suggests that the problem is largely due to what Stalkers have to give up to get their AT-defining powers (Hide, Assassin's Strike, Placate). I saw a suggestion, probably earlier in this thread, that I really liked. The suggestion was to move those powers into slottable inherent powers (like Kheldians get, or like the Brawl and Rest everyone gets). Since Placate only replaces the taunt which we can probably agree Stalkers don't really need, we'd only need to make either Assassin's Strike or Placate into an inherent. Plus making Hide into an inherent would allow restoring the utility armor powers that seem to have been sacrificed for it.

That and increasing the range of the team crit buff. Just those two things, and I think Stalkers would be well enough off. I wouldn't be surprised if people still compared them unfavorably to Brutes, but right now I really like playing my Stalkers.

And I actually wanted to play a Dual Blades Stalker, but kinda gave up in disgust when I saw what they did to the combos in the Stalker version of the set. It's bad enough that DB stalkers actually might be better off not using one of the biggest defining features of the set (combos) in favor of using better attacks. Making the combos far more like the other ATs' combos would really help.

That, and if they could somehow use the tech they created for Dual Pistols to turn off damage/mez auras while in hide (Stalker Dark Armor would really benefit). It might not be feasible though.

Regardless, I'm really happy with my Elec/Nin Stalker, but I'm aware she's pretty much an exception.

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Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
Of course, slotting your attacks for endurance reduction (plus at least one in each of the under 0.30/s toggles, with more in the larger ones, of course) is out of the question, so Stamina is mandatory. After all, you might have to sacrifice accuracy, recharge or damage for the better endurance efficiency, which would be unthinkable.

Bah.
That isn't enough for many powersets. For example, my Mind/Empathy controller is staminaless, has endurance reduction as part of her slotting largely due to getting it from sets, and would completely run out if it wasn't for Recovery Aura with high recharge. And my Fire/Rad controller would completely run dry without Stamina, even with endurance reduciton slotting. And those are high leveled, well slotted characters. In my experiences, you could only really get away with it on the most extremely endurance efficient powersets. At least as long as you remained really active in combat and such.


 

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Never run a mastermind. You'll never get sleep at night.


 

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Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
Of course, slotting your attacks for endurance reduction (plus at least one in each of the under 0.30/s toggles, with more in the larger ones, of course) is out of the question, so Stamina is mandatory. After all, you might have to sacrifice accuracy, recharge or damage for the better endurance efficiency, which would be unthinkable
So, you've played nothing but masterminds and low end hog defenders? What you describe is what you do in addition to stamina for most characters, not instead of.


 

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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
Lower amounts of AOE is only a problem if you put blinders on. There are plenty of places where you want good single target damage, and someone putting that damage where it needs to be. Stalkers are fine since they were adjusted... it's just the folks with blinders that seem to think they are not.
I am having a blast with the new and improved stalkers.


 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
So, you've played nothing but masterminds and low end hog defenders? What you describe is what you do in addition to stamina for most characters, not instead of.
I recognize the name from global chat.

He solos nearly exclusively, and therefore plays at his own pace.

Which is fine, but it means he doesn't have a frame of reference of the actual endurance management needs of players who play at any pace faster than he plays or against larger amounts of foes, on teams, etc.