Time Bomb - I don't get the Hate
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-28 16:10 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
It can hold an oblit set for the extra defense. Otherwise somewhere south of world of confusion in utility
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When I say that, and when other blasters I've teamed with say that, what we're really saying is "I'm nuking the next mob - it will be gone in two seconds and you can move on to the next". |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I guess the ammount of times I've seen blasters say 'Nuking next mob' or the like is just a figment of my imagination then.
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We're not saying "Wait, look, look guys, this - this is gonna be awesome! Just wait a bit longer guys, I've got this cool power, but it takes a bit to set up juuust right. Ok, I've got everyone smoked, I'm invisible, let's do this.... soon. Now, watch this guys this is so cool, it's just awesome. Look, I'm in the middle of the mob, they can't even see me! I'm gonna put this bomb right here... oops, I guess it got interrupted for some reason. Better lay down more smoke. Now where was I. Oh yeah, hey guys where are you all goin? I'm not done here yet! Guys?"
In the first case it's a courtesy. It means that the rest of the team doesn't have to start selecting targets or wasting inspirations. In the second case it's ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I would MUCH rather spend those 24 seconds doing something more interesting than placing a time bomb and waiting for it to detonate. In the same time frame I could use FA, Flamethrower and Buckshot then start on mopping up the bosses.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
No thanks, rather just shield charge the spawn for near instant defeat, while doing considerably more damage than TB and have it recharge over 4 times faster.
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Soloing, I suppose I can see some uses for mobs that you absolutely don't want to attack up front and there aren't any corners around for you to use to pull them over a patch of Trip Mines instead. But in most scenarios, anything it does can be more easily filled by Trip Mines.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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You know what else takes out even con minions? Fireball/Firebreath. In under five seconds. Without any Build Up or Aim. With very reasonable (SO) slotting, it does so on about a 12 second cycle. | Because on the last run it one shotted even con minions. Without any Build up. That doesnt look bad t'me... *shrug* |
If you've got Mental as your secondary, you can do it with nearly ANY primary.
Oh, and "Without any Build Up"? You say that like it's an advantage instead of a disadvantage. Because if you use Build Up, it will expire with about 14 seconds left on the timer.
If you really don't see 24 seconds as a problem, go you. (Is Time Bomb on a "leash" like tripmines are? If so... you can't even set it up and go on to the next spawn.) I have run on teams where fights are over before Build Up expires. Frequently.
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I know I've heard people mention setting it up and then moving on or returning to the previous group. It might just be a matter of how far apart the spawns are spaced, though.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Is Time Bomb on a "leash" like tripmines are? If so... you can't even set it up and go on to the next spawn.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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it's demonstrably worse than two applications of Trip Mine, which can be laid down faster.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
But Time Bomb is also fairly decent at making fireworks too, IMO anyhow
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it takes so long to activate from animation to explosion that literally any damage-dealing AT would have mopped up the spawn and moved on to the next one before it even goes off.
I mean, you can like it if you want- I'm fond of all sorts of underperforming powers in the game. But that doesn't change the fact that it just flat out sucks.
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/this. |
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
When I say that, and when other blasters I've teamed with say that, what we're really saying is "I'm nuking the next mob - it will be gone in two seconds and you can move on to the next".
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If I'm on my Blaster and mention I'm nuking, if I'm saying anything more than the above it's to let the Kin know I'll need a Transferrence the mob after.
Think I've seen suggestions to add a "remote detonate" to Time Bomb. Give it that with the current timer (and maybe a faster setup) and I think more people would be fine with it. Heck, make it like the dynamite barrels (in Striga and some redside missions) - either it goes off by time, or by damage.
Seriously techbot, that power does nowhere near the damage to compensate for how long it goes off.
2 trip mines, something EASILY acheivable to set up, bo more base damage than it.
Hell, AR's string of AoEs will clear the mob out just fine...
each of those two usually dont use Build-Up either, and take 1/9001th the time
the power sucks
I just don't like it. Unless you tell your team to lay off while you set it up and wait for it to explode, it's wasted, and nobody likes being told to wait for 30+ seconds while the blaster positions himself, sets up time bomb, and waits for it to explode.
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Teamwork isn't "everyone let me use my powers to their best effect," it's "let's all work together as best we can" and that rarely includes having 7/8 members twiddle their thumbs for 30 seconds. Imagine if some other member told you to do nothing and stare at a spawn while they pulled some stunt. Bo~oring.| If you cant get a team to simply wait while you tag and bag a mob with it...well, thats probably not a great team anyway, because it means they arent listening. |
Also, as previously mentioned, that spawn would be dead and gone far sooner if everyone just opened up on it.
Actually, I like Time Bomb too, but I get the difficulty of using it on a team. Half the time the spawn is dead before it goes off, and no, I'm not going to ask the team to wait while I set it up. I might do that if we've been dying the last few spawns and it looks like we need to soften them up a bit first, but not just because I want to play with a fun toy.
And Time Bomb is a fun toy. It's hilarious to set it up and then trigger Full Auto just seconds before it goes off. And then whatever remains blunders into the mines and gets finished off. But that's a solo tactic. I solo, it's what I do, so I love it, but he's a team character too. So I'm not going to really concentrate on that power, not like Trip Mine.
I don't always fancy my AR/Devs chances, sometimes I set up tripmines to knockout one hell of a hard kill and in between the last 2 trip mines a timebomb gets dropped too. Then I am not really losing any time as I have the rechg of the last Trip to wait for anyway. I just got to get that target to the trap in time.
A big trap of say 20 - 22 trips and a timebomb is a lot of damage. It may take out a group that would take you x amount of time to kill should you be able to survive. My primaries AoEs have pretty longish cast times which means I could be planted for a bit and so low on agility. If x amount of time to kill that group without trips and timebomb is more than the amount of time to set up the trap and kill that group then its better/quicker to set the trap. Trick is in predicting what will happen correctly.
I don't bother with the power as my Traps but I do with my Ar/Dev on occasion.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
For a point of reference on whether 24 seconds is a long time: When you take a fistful of insps, how many fights does it last? When you get the berserker pack on ding, how many fights does it last? Two? Three? Four, maybe, if you're crazy fast?
That's 60 seconds. Including time to go from spawn to spawn. 24 seconds, plus time to get to spawn, plus time to smokebomb them, is a whole different game than what I probably joined your team to do. (not to mention the time to finish off anything that's not, say, a white-con minion.)
The situations where you may be willing to invest the time- let's say some idiot named Fulmens set up a +3/x3 mission full of Malta- are not the situations where the added firepower of a Time Bomb solves the problem. (a Trip Mine, MAYBE, is worth doing. Two Trip Mines? Too slow.)
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Some bosses who can comfortably control a blaster in no time can take over 6 trip mines worth of damage. I like to out them with perhaps 4 trips and a timebomb and a shot or have those bosses try and control my drone instead of me. Depends on the map really.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
The situations where you may be willing to invest the time- let's say some idiot named Fulmens set up a +3/x3 mission full of Malta- are not the situations where the added firepower of a Time Bomb solves the problem. (a Trip Mine, MAYBE, is worth doing. Two Trip Mines? Too slow.)
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The damage bonus from Timebomb lasts until the moment it goes off so I find that you can pull with a nice shot..and maybe the enemies will get to it in time. I wouldn't use it unless I needed a lower actual fight duration though.
I do +2 x6 players atm cos Vanguard are pigs.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hmm. Think the arguements so far have been pretty compelling, actually.
It's a shame, though, because it seems like quite a neat power.
I think the best thing would maybe be something like Omega Maneuver. I don't really know tbh.
Was interesting reading the replies, anyhow 
Verdict: Good solo, terrible on teams, takes too long to set up.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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No it doesn't, it lasts cast time + 7.5 seconds, same as every other Blaster power (actually the interruptable Devices powers seem to last interrupt time + 7.5secodns instead):|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
The damage bonus from Timebomb lasts until the moment it goes off so I find that you can pull with a nice shot..and maybe the enemies will get to it in time. I wouldn't use it unless I needed a lower actual fight duration though.
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http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...gets.Time_Bomb
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Thats basically it. Old news aye. Solo I just took out 5 Fake Nems +2 to me and a squad of more nems that were +2 with them without dying, which is nice. I made that blaster to play differently to all my others anyway.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Verdict: Good solo, terrible on teams, takes too long to set up.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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What I said and what you think I said I am guessing are two different things. Oh hang on a sec. I didn't go by redtomax I went by ingame. The +damage on defiance dropped immediately after or when timebomb went off.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
No it doesn't, it lasts cast time + 7.5 seconds, same as every other Blaster power (actually the interruptable Devices powers seem to last interrupt time + 7.5secodns instead):
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...gets.Time_Bomb |
Edit: Yep just tested, as soon as it exploded my damage bonus was gone. Screw the websites.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Omega Maneuver is a really outstanding power. I like to refer to mine as my Mini Nuke. I have 3 slots of Damage, 1 Accuracy and 2 slot of Recharge on it which allows it to come back in a little over 3 minutes. Unlike a lot of other Nukes it is not a huge END drain so I use it as often as its available (If I know there is an AV or EB in the mission I may hold on to it as we get close to the end so I can spring it on that target). Generally I place it, remotely, and then while it taunts everything around I fire off my Venom Grenade to maximize its damage output. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hmm. Think the arguements so far have been pretty compelling, actually.
It's a shame, though, because it seems like quite a neat power. I think the best thing would maybe be something like Omega Maneuver. I don't really know tbh. Was interesting reading the replies, anyhow Verdict: Good solo, terrible on teams, takes too long to set up. |
I've even used it by setting it right next to myself and pulling everything to me... They rush forward, stop attcking me as the Bomb taunts them, and then BOOM! I plan on taking my Crab to Paragon City once GR hits and think it would be neat to team with a /Dev Blaster or two and use this tactic with Trip mines as well. lay trip mines, set up the Omega, Pull and then watch the mob vanish in a huge fireball. LOL
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Actually, I would say OK solo, terrible on teams. I certainly wouldn't think of a blaster as gimped just because he skipped this on a soloist.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Verdict: Good solo, terrible on teams, takes too long to set up. |
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Ah, you're correct, it looks like the Defiance duration for all of the interruptable powers in Devices are wrong. Interruptable powers (like Snipes) are supposed to have a duration of 7.5seconds + cast time - interruptable time which would mean that the bonus lasts for 7.5secodns after you finish animating the power (as is true for all other Blaster powers). However Trip Mine, Time Bomb and Gun Drone were apparently all given durations equal to interrupt time + 7.5 seconds.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
What I said and what you think I said I am guessing are two different things. Oh hang on a sec. I didn't go by redtomax I went by ingame. The +damage on defiance dropped immediately after or when timebomb went off.
Edit: Yep just tested, as soon as it exploded my damage bonus was gone. Screw the websites. |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Wow. Thanks for basically slamming any right I have to an opinion.
I guess the ammount of times I've seen blasters say 'Nuking next mob' or the like is just a figment of my imagination then. The thing is, your misunderstanding my intentions. I'm not trying to 'sway people'. I'm just saying that, having tried it, I now don't understand the hate quite so much. I'm not saying people are wrong to not like it. People will still take powers that I avoid like the plague, and vice versa. I was merely interested to see why other people didn't like it so much. The answer to that seems to be 'It takes too long'. Thats fair enough. Eachy to their own. But kindly refrain from insulting me. Thanks. |
You announce a nuke so that people don't waste their own long cool down powers like an aoe hold, or heatloss. And so that the support knows you are going to put yourself at high risk and not be able to protect yourself as much as normal.
For instance when a blaster announces a nuke I get ready to search for a close by survivor and refill him with transference. Or I know that casting vines at this point would be a waste for my plant/kin.
If you are announcing timebomb, just what exactly are you doing it for?
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Screw the figures, fun, in game matters to me. You say that the defiance durations of the interruptable powers within devices are wrong, to me they're right and more practical the way they are ingame.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Ah, you're correct, it looks like the Defiance duration for all of the interruptable powers in Devices are wrong. Interruptable powers (like Snipes) are supposed to have a duration of 7.5seconds + cast time - interruptable time which would mean that the bonus lasts for 7.5secodns after you finish animating the power (as is true for all other Blaster powers). However Trip Mine, Time Bomb and Gun Drone were apparently all given durations equal to interrupt time + 7.5 seconds.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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*shrug* Maybe it is better this way but it is still inconsistent with the formula that all other Defiance bonuses are adhere to which makes it inconsistent at the very least. It's entirely possible that the devs did it deliberately, there are cases where they ignore the formulas for specific powers in order to balance a set (see: Archery for Blasters) but I've never seen anything suggesting they did so here.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
Screw the figures, fun, in game matters to me. You say that the defiance durations of the interruptable powers within devices are wrong, to me they're right and more practical the way they are ingame.
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: ( There is so much "they" could do to fix this power to both bring it up to the current par for both team and solo performance, -and- keep it within concept.
This is a power that's within the Manipulation/Support trees.. we've got Trip Mines for the big damagers, why not add a bit of "support" to this one? Halve the cast/interrupt/detonation times (or more), remove the max-effect cap and give it an obscene knockUP magnitude (I'm talking like 1.5 full seconds of air-time, equivalent of an entire spawn getting hit with Levitation), that brings them right back down in a neat group just as they started, so that the team can mop up, and either keep its recharge, or make it a bit longer than your average Blaster nuke, since it's a secondary.
But then this is not a suggestion forum I guess. From personal experience, I have to throw in my hat to the "haters" side, if only because it pretty much falls within the realm of my characters getting Sands of Mu / Ninja Run, etc., only you have to expend a power slot on it. It's got potential for aesthetic and concept, ya sure, and it's not as useless as Brawl on anything but a Tank, ok. But unlike these other powers with benefits, it requires at least one power selection and most likely additional slots, for about the same performance as an afterthought ability.
Gameplay has evolved many generations beyond the initial conception of this ability, and more-so than damn near everything else, it has withered with time. Find me a solid, single percent point of people who would be against an update (of any sort) to Time Bomb, and I'll eat that very same hat I threw in.
personally i'd like more like a remote detonated bomb...
click to plant, click again to make boom...