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Fair question although I'm trying not to compare them if I can help it. I want to play my Stalker as a Stalker, not as a Scrapper with a few neat tricks up his sleeve. |
Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
My question to the OP: Can tanker control like controllers/dominators? Can scrappers debuff mobs like corruptors, defenders, and controllers?
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I've got plenty of Scrappers but Stalkers remain a playstyle that has eluded me even after four and a half years of playing. To put things in perspective, the last time I tried to play a Stalker, it was before they received their recent buffing and I found that sticking around after my Assassin's Strike was a recipe for eating floor on a regular basis. So I found that after I'd taken out a few targets, I had to run away and get back into Hide again. (This was low level admittedly, I never got any of them much further than their 20s) Evidently, this has changed and I'm curious to know how much. Having been playing stealthy assassin with my Bane Spider recently, I can see the appeal of sneaking into a mob and taking out the problem targets. I just want to be able to contribute to the damage afterwards. As I will be playing this Stalker mostly on teams, I like to know that I'm not just there for vicious amounts of burst damage.
As for the epic moments, that's an indulgence really. But simply put, I have seen Scrappers wipe a room when the entire team has faceplanted but I don't think I've ever seen a Stalker do it. So I'm just curious whether that kind of thing can happen or whether it's purely the domain of Scrappers to do that kind of thing. From the responses in this thread, it would appear that they can.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
I'll answer anyways. My Tank can control like Controllers/Dominators with the help of the APP.
My Scrapper can definitely debuff like Corrs/Def/Controllers. In fact, my Scrapper is extremely good at debuffing the enemy's Health Bar. |
Lies.
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My DM/DA stalker can step up and solo a +2x6 spawn against most enemy groups. I've finished off most of a +1/x8 group that took out everyone on my team (including me but I have the self rez AoE stun). And I have a really, really, really crappy build (for instance, I don't have Murky Cloud at all and both Obsidian Shield and Shadow Dweller are 6 slotted for resistance).|
Originally Posted by Dante
As for the epic moments, that's an indulgence really. But simply put, I have seen Scrappers wipe a room when the entire team has faceplanted but I don't think I've ever seen a Stalker do it. So I'm just curious whether that kind of thing can happen or whether it's purely the domain of Scrappers to do that kind of thing. From the responses in this thread, it would appear that they can.
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I have a friend with a nin/nin who can do awesome things.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
My DB/SR stalker can easily stick around to scrap it out after the initial opening move - be it an assassin strike on a boss or 1000 cuts on a big group.
I also took hibernate from the Mako pool so if things go wrong i can have a little time out to heal up, also go back into hide while hibernating.
If you want to make a good contribution in PvE I would recomend taking a primary set with at least 1 AoE attack.
My 44 Elec/Nin just soloed the Serpent Drummer Arc that ends with you killing 2 big bad EBs and a bunch of adds on 0/4 diff. I did faceplant 2 times because even with soft capped def 1 hit from an EB like that tends to take you down to 1 point hp and then all that is left is a lucky shot from a drone. And yes I did stick around and killed the EB suit nd all the adds also!
I am pretty sure a scrapper with insperations could have done the same thing, but the point is I am pretty sure anything a scrapper can do in epic team content my stalker could also do, because right now the only thing I really see different is that a scrapper has some extra hps, but the stalker gets free stealth and AS. Pretty good trade off if you ask me.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
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Stalkers are very capable of scrapping despite having low health, etc. A little while back I had a team going where everyone died and while fighting the multiple groups of Longbow one of the people said "I've never been power-leveled by a Stalker before."|
Originally Posted by Dante
So I guess what Im wondering is: Are Stalkers capable of the same kind of insane feats such as these? Or are they the exclusive domain of insane Scrappers? Can I hang around and take on a few mobs or are Stalkers still limited to taking a few hard targets down and then fleeing before being swamped?
For information, the Stalker I have in mind will be MA/Nin. Thanks for your time. |
My EM/Nin is a nightmare in stilettos. She is capped to melee and range defense and has a nice recharge and damage bonus.
If you plan on going the route of IOs you will be able to do some really nice things with /Nin. If you are planning on going with DM/Nin that is a nice combo, but I am partial to EM for Stalkers and DM for Scrappers personally.
Stalkers do take a little getting used to because they are basically Blasters with melee powers and lower health, but once you get the hang of them they are monstrous and super fun.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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Nitpick: Stalkers have the same base hp and same hp cap as Blasters. They also share the same resistance cap (75%), +damage cap (+400%), and same melee damage modifier.|
Originally Posted by Novella
Stalkers do take a little getting used to because they are basically Blasters with melee powers and lower health, but once you get the hang of them they are monstrous and super fun.
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You may be thinking of another AT... Dominators have lower health, a lower ranged damage modifier, and fewer AoEs, but have a higher melee damage modifier than Blasters* and typically get their heavy hitters at melee range.
* - not that Defiance doesn't take care of the difference easily enough, and Dominators have a lower +damage cap
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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IMO, anything with Vengeance can get epic moments on teams. I've had many an epic moment on my DM/WP stalker who actually *tries* to die. On good teams, he sometimes has to resort to self-destructing himself but if no one ever died, no one ever gets to use Vengeance!
Some of the more epic moments, he pops Resurgence (+recovery, +ToHit, +dmg and +rech right there), Strength of Will (nice resists) and Vengeance (now capped defense to every type and *more* +dmg). Needless to say, with his focus on +dmg set bonuses, he hits pretty hard and is pretty tough to kill.
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Pointless nitpick.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Nitpick: Stalkers have the same base hp and same hp cap as Blasters. They also share the same resistance cap (75%), +damage cap (+400%), and same melee damage modifier.
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Anyways, regardless they still have the lowest HP among ALL melee classes.
I wasn't thinking of another AT I was thinking Blasters and typed Blasters. Same caps or not I typically see Blasters with more HP due to IO building that Blasters, hence why I made my comment. My Stalker has lower HP than any of my Blasters.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
I can farm the cimerora walls with my softcapped Nin/Nin stalker, so... yeah they can scrap really good...
i'd suggest though, when GR hits, roll a Kin/Nin stalker to play the new powerset too, that's what i'm goin to do
defiant only
@amartia
my public list : http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/9355
I have done a few ITF's with my Elec/WP stalker on mixed teams and once I received a tell from a scrapper calling me a show off....lol. I usually wait for the aggro magnet or mezzer to go in first then I am second to go in.
Attack Chain on a team.
Lightning Rod + Thunder Strike + Ball Lightning + Jacobs Ladder = Lots of damage
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Often when someone labels something as a nitpick, they already know that it's trivial (see: definition of nitpick.). But there was a point - correcting a minor error for anyone reading the thread that didn't know better. I get tired of hearing ignorant people in-game spout drivel that someone else who didn't know anything posted or said, so I try to head it off as I can.|
Originally Posted by Novella
Pointless nitpick.
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Originally Posted by Novella
Anyways, regardless they still have the lowest HP among ALL melee classes.
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Originally Posted by Novella
I wasn't thinking of another AT I was thinking Blasters and typed Blasters. Same caps or not I typically see Blasters with more HP due to IO building that Blasters, hence why I made my comment. My Stalker has lower HP than any of my Blasters.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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No Chain induction? I friggin' LOVE that power.
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I have done a few ITF's with my Elec/WP stalker on mixed teams and once I received a tell from a scrapper calling me a show off....lol. I usually wait for the aggro magnet or mezzer to go in first then I am second to go in.
Attack Chain on a team. Lightning Rod + Thunder Strike + Ball Lightning + Jacobs Ladder = Lots of damage |
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I love it too, but it wouldn't have time (or targets) to jump around late in that chain, and you want the crit on TS so you shouldn't do it before it.|
Originally Posted by Negate
No Chain induction? I friggin' LOVE that power.
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edit: although subbing it in when LR isn't recharged, you can do okay with TS->CI->BL->JL.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Its so fun I almost wish the mobs had more health so I can zap them more!|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
I love it too, but it wouldn't have time (or targets) to jump around late in that chain, and you want the crit on TS so you shouldn't do it before it.
edit: although subbing it in when LR isn't recharged, you can do okay with TS->CI->BL->JL. |
Almost.
Build UP->LR->TS->BL-> .... only a boss or 2 is left how sad. I can only hope the angry brute that is at 0 fury on the team is grabbing another spawn so I can use CI there.
With soft capped melee I dont even wait anymore for the brute to get agro, I just make sure I didnt run off to a different spawn, but even then sometimes I just pop a purple and see how long I can last solo.
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Yeah, I use it as a sub when LR is recharging.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
I love it too, but it wouldn't have time (or targets) to jump around late in that chain, and you want the crit on TS so you shouldn't do it before it.
edit: although subbing it in when LR isn't recharged, you can do okay with TS->CI->BL->JL. |
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Since I dont need to get Combat Jump anymore to get Superjump (Vet Reward) I think I might squeeze in Chain Induction.
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Originally Posted by Negate
No Chain induction? I friggin' LOVE that power.
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Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Since I dont need to get Combat Jump anymore to get Superjump (Vet Reward) I think I might squeeze in Chain Induction.
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It's a fun power but it honestly comes down to each their own. I for one avoid Jacob's Ladder like the plague.
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Eh, I kind of like both JL and CI...but not together >_>|
Originally Posted by Negate
It's a fun power but it honestly comes down to each their own. I for one avoid Jacob's Ladder like the plague.
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They seem at odds with eachother to me. So I made an Elec/Regen Stalker and his little brother, an Elec/Elec Brute. The Stalker's 'Signature Attack' is CI while the Brute's is JL and focus their strategies around their respective specialty.
But I have to say, the Stalker is betta'
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I have a Shiney new MA/SR Stalker, it Scraps very well so far.
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Originally Posted by Dante
Hi folks, long time player, first time Stalker here and Id appreciate some guidance. Despite being here for almost 5 years, Ive never mastered the Stalker AT so Ill admit ignorance to a lot of how they play and what they contribute to a team.
Basically, I have been planning on a character to explore Going Rogue content and although I thought Id settled on a Blaster, however, a couple of kung fu movies later and suddenly I'm considering a martial arts master, a character type Ive never done before. Now heres the thing. Ive played plenty of Scrappers before but never a Stalker and the impression Ive always got was that Stalkers could hit a single target very hard and then scrap it out a little bit before having to run and hide again. Whereas by contrast Ive watched a friends Dark/Regen Scrapper solo the entire final room of Gaussians RWZ arc. (Myself and the rest of the team were faceplanted at the time, it was quite epic to watch.) So I guess what Im wondering is: Are Stalkers capable of the same kind of insane feats such as these? Or are they the exclusive domain of insane Scrappers? Can I hang around and take on a few mobs or are Stalkers still limited to taking a few hard targets down and then fleeing before being swamped? For information, the Stalker I have in mind will be MA/Nin. Thanks for your time. |
I like /Regen for this. Instant Healing, Moment of Glory, Shadow Meld, and two heals combined means that your defenses can scale up to survive-the-apocalypse levels when needed. It was fun outliving two Brutes in Granite Armor against +4 Malta once or twice, and the first time, I beat down everything but the Zeus Titan while the team resurrected (and boy, does beating on a +4 Zeus take a while for Spines/.)
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
If you want to.scrap and have epic moments, roll a scrapper.
Scrapper>stalker solo and teamed, has better aoe, and nearly as much burst damage.
Ninjitsu is exclusive to Stalkers (for now) so its still worth playing.
Anyone who rolls a stalker combo that is available to scrappers is ignorant to the realities of the game.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
The original question of the poster didn't say which archtype scraps better, and has more epic moments.
Thanks for not answering the OPs question.
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Or just... enjoys playing that combo as a Stalker...? It's a hell of a jump from 'stalkers are probably a little underperforming compare to Scrappers' to 'anybody who rolls a Stalker instead of a Scrapper is ignorant.' Even if Stalkers were strictly worse at all situations (which they aren't,) you'd still have to take those of us who prefer villainside into account.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Anyone who rolls a stalker combo that is available to scrappers is ignorant to the realities of the game.
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Hell, anybody who judges combos or ATs solely on their mechanical performance is ignorant to the realities of this game, which involve 90% of the playerbase going 'WHEE I'M BLOWIN' GUYS UP!' while not caring about the mechanics.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
My Scrapper can definitely debuff like Corrs/Def/Controllers. In fact, my Scrapper is extremely good at debuffing the enemy's Health Bar.