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Originally Posted by Mad_Badger
Soon Tankers and Brutes will be able to team with one another from 1-50. My concern is that Tankers will start to over shadow brutes as they have superior survivability and provocation. With Tanks around who will need brutes? Or will the opposite happen? Will Brutes with their superior damage output, push tanks off to the side? What's going to happen!?
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Exactly what happens with RWZ teams, LGTF teams and ITFs?
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Originally Posted by Mad_Badger
What's going to happen!?
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Brutes will continue to charge headfirst into spawns, holding aggro while they kill stuff.
Tankers will continue to herd large groups while their group annihilates them.
People who want to play ultra survivable aggro management characters, especially on a budget, will continue to turn to the Tanker AT to provide that.
People who want to have some aggro management while dealing heaps of damage will continue to turn to the Brute AT.
I see nothing changing. I'll still refuse to play tanks because I find them useless and boring. Other people will still play tanks because they find them useful and fun.
Be well, people of CoH.
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*raises hand*|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I see nothing changing. I'll still refuse to play tanks because I find them useless and boring. Other people will still play tanks because they find them useful and fun.
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I'll continue to play tanks because I think they serve a better purpose on a team than a scrapper or brute.
Also because I can't seem to build a scrapper or brute with enough survivability that I don't delete before level 30.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
When I'm in the mood to be the nice guy, protecting the team and taking the hits for them, I play one of my Tankers. When I'm in the mood to tear stuff up and rampage through a mission, I play one of my Brutes. I imagine I'll still do the same when GR hits. And I imagine most folks will do the same.
The choice whether to play a Tank or Brute is more than just mitigation numbers. It's all about style.
I see players playing what they want because it is fun.
This is giving me flashbacks to corr vs. def in GR.
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I realize that it'll be a stretch... but on a scrapper or brute you can take the attacks and slot them and they actually do significant damage.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
*raises hand*
I'll continue to play tanks because I think they serve a better purpose on a team than a scrapper or brute. Also because I can't seem to build a scrapper or brute with enough survivability that I don't delete before level 30. |
See, a tank has to have all that mitigation because it takes 100 hits to kill a blue minion, where scrappers and brutes don't need as much mitigation because they take out spawns in a single hit.
Warning: This post contains hyperbole and pokes fun in a light hearted way.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Oh yeah? Well, it only takes 2 hits from a blue minion to kill the scrapper, where large groups of +4 bosses can hit my tanker all day long!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
See, a tank has to have all that mitigation because it takes 100 hits to kill a blue minion, where scrappers and brutes don't need as much mitigation because they take out spawns in a single hit.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Warning: This post contains hyperbole and pokes fun in a light hearted way.
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But really, I hear what you're saying, and there's a reason I won't play a tank unless it's fire or dark melee, or uses shield defense. My problem is I got used to diving into huge spawns early in a character's career, and now a scrapper just seems too weak to do that.
If only I had the patience...
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Exact same problem I have in reverse. I know that if I IOed out a tank like I do my scrapper/brutes it would put out enough damage to be comfortable, but I don't have the patience to get it there.
| If only I had the patience... |
Be well, people of CoH.
Ultimately the difference between my tanks and my brutes will be damage. Damage buffers, who can also aid a Brutes survivability well enough, might be looking for Brutes in their teams more. There will still be players who completely overlook anything game mechanical. I'll do Fun this year, not speed, not duct tape, just accept any invite and play.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I felt the same way as Dechs, at least about scrappers. Finally trying one out again, and it isn't as painful as I remember.
But in the end, what it really comes down to is what they do in the expansion as far as incarnates, and the new content, which is supposed to make all ATs shine in their own right.
Gonna wait and see, but I think my brutes are gonna get more mileage.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
I'm a tanker by heart and soul, but on the converse of that I love getting n a brute every now and then and rampaging threw missions. Oddly enough my favorite brute is a DM/EA and my current favorite tanker is the DA/Axe tank i'm leveling...
I think people will still pick what they feel works best for them and for their team. I'm more concerned what EPP they are gona give brutes access to that go full hero.
Please reframe from using Scrappers in the same sentence with these 2 pansies...
---- smoke flash... activates ninja run... gone!!!!
Oh glee- this thread again. People who prefer tankers will still play tankers. People who prefer brutes will still play brutes. It isn't really a question of which will make which obsolete as there are still clear and dramatic differences between the two. Stop being concerned with what everyone else is doing and just enjoy the game for what you enjoy it for.
(unless, of course, your predilection involves making baseless and pointless predictions about the rise and decline in popularity of archetypes. If that is your choice, I would encourage you to do something else. 
)
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Difference being, with IO's you can turn a brute into a tanker. You'll never slot enough +dmg IO's to make a tanker into a brute....
Just saying...I'll take my villany any day 
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I dare you to make a Dark Armor brute that can tank as well as my Dark Armor tank.
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Originally Posted by LygerZero
Difference being, with IO's you can turn a brute into a tanker. You'll never slot enough +dmg IO's to make a tanker into a brute....
Just saying...I'll take my villany any day |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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My thing about Brute vs Tanker survivability is that while a Tanker will pretty much always be tougher, being that tough isn't necessary.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I dare you to make a Dark Armor brute that can tank as well as my Dark Armor tank.
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A Brute, with IOs and/or team support, can be tough enough to take the punishment of anything that is realistically going to be thrown at them.
In any situation where you've got anything that does enough damage to warrant the toughness of a Tanker, you've generally got enough team support to enable a Brute to take the punishment and do far more damage in the process.
Yes, a Tanker, (depending on Primary, skill, slotting, etc etc), could tank them without support. That's not really meaningful unless your team is 7 Blasters and the Tanker.
I'd rather have the Brute.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
That's really been going on with Tankers and Scrappers since the beginning. Brutes are merely more robust that Scrappers, while being able to match their damage under the right circumstances. My take is that you'll pick a Tanker if you want to tank, a Scrapper if you want consistent high damage output, and a Brute if the Fury mechanic appeals to you.
I believe the devs mentioned Tankers might get a look if they turn out to be too overshadowed by the "hybrid", but I don't see anything more than a minor tweak to the Inherent.
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I agree for the most part.|
Originally Posted by Silas
My thing about Brute vs Tanker survivability is that while a Tanker will pretty much always be tougher, being that tough isn't necessary.
A Brute, with IOs and/or team support, can be tough enough to take the punishment of anything that is realistically going to be thrown at them. In any situation where you've got anything that does enough damage to warrant the toughness of a Tanker, you've generally got enough team support to enable a Brute to take the punishment and do far more damage in the process. Yes, a Tanker, (depending on Primary, skill, slotting, etc etc), could tank them without support. That's not really meaningful unless your team is 7 Blasters and the Tanker. |
At the same time, many Brute Secondaries are often refused entry onto things like the LRSF due to their (perceived or actual) lower survivability levels. (I don't agree with it, but that's what happens)
So I could actually see people looking to grab a Tanker for that particular TF - or even low level grouping in general which is where many Brutes tend to lack the ability to tank for teams due to no IOs or not having all the necessary power choices yet.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I believe the devs mentioned Tankers might get a look if they turn out to be too overshadowed by the "hybrid", but I don't see anything more than a minor tweak to the Inherent.
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I say let the tanks out aggro brutes, because when I play my brute I want to focus on damage.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Badger
Soon Tankers and Brutes will be able to team with one another from 1-50. My concern is that Tankers will start to over shadow brutes as they have superior survivability and provocation. With Tanks around who will need brutes? Or will the opposite happen? Will Brutes with their superior damage output, push tanks off to the side? What's going to happen!?
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Is your tanker IOed? Cause i'm sure there is /dark IOed brutes that are a lot sturdier then an SOed dark/ tank. Because that's what he was referring to. =P|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I dare you to make a Dark Armor brute that can tank as well as my Dark Armor tank.
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With IOs, you can make a brute as sturdy as a tanker. And by the definition of the dev and the balance, a "tanker" is one without IOs.
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
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He was referring to someone making the "with IOs you can make a brute as strong as a tanker" comment. |
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
Is your tanker IOed? Cause i'm sure there is /dark IOed brutes that are a lot sturdier then an SOed dark/ tank. Because that's what he was referring to. =P
With IOs, you can make a brute as sturdy as a tanker. And by the definition of the dev and the balance, a "tanker" is one without IOs. |
And no, you cannot make an IOed Dark Armor brute as sturdy as an IOed Dark Armor tank. Sorry, but you can't.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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And the meaning of "with IOs you can make a brute as strong as a tanker" is that:|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
He was referring to someone making the "with IOs you can make a brute as strong as a tanker" comment.
And no, you cannot make an IOed Dark Armor brute as sturdy as an IOed Dark Armor tank. Sorry, but you can't. |
An IOed brute can be as sturdy as an SOed tanker.
It was never question about IO brute vs IO tanker. "A tanker" is an SOed tanker, since that's the dev's mesurement of balance and challenge in this game.
The debate is that IOed brute can be as tough as SOed tanker.
But IOed tanker won't do as much damage as an SOed brute.
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
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I'd question that. Some IOed tankers can reach 140, 150, 160, 170 ST DPS. AoE output isn't bad either although harder to objectively quantify (i.e., 2x Rage Footstomp + Fireball). I'd argue the damage output a IOed out SD/SS/Fire tanker can reach is most likely higher than what most, if not all SO brutes will ever be able to.
| But IOed tanker won't do as much damage as an SOed brute. |
Soon Tankers and Brutes will be able to team with one another from 1-50. My concern is that Tankers will start to over shadow brutes as they have superior survivability and provocation. With Tanks around who will need brutes? Or will the opposite happen? Will Brutes with their superior damage output, push tanks off to the side? What's going to happen!?