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I don't know where you got SO'd from my post - I was talking about extreme performance builds, and that at some point you hit "enough" survivability that you simply don't care if something else is better.|
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
Did you just implied that you can solo 17(that's the cap?) +4 AVs with an SOed brute? O_o
I'm pretty sure even an SOed granite tanker couldn't survive long against 17 +4 AVs... |
For what it's worth, none of my Brutes can keep that many +4 AVs on them without judicious inspiration usage or outside buffs, but I was on a team with the Invuln Brute that was doing it. My EM/Elec did keep the aggro cap's worth of Deathsurges occupied during the anniversary, though (and giggling at the stone armor who kept getting drained, detoggled, and killed).
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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9 or 10, last i've heard. And they were +0/+1. But he/she's IOed insanely. I was refering to SO. =P|
Originally Posted by Elegost
I forget how many specifically, but it was over 10 (12ish?) AVs that Nihilii solo'd on his /inv scrapper.
Note: They were all hand-picked S/L dealing AVs (through MA), and I'm not sure if they were on absolute max diff, but he still did it. On a scrapper. And aggro cap is 16, if I remember correctly, but for whatever reason, Taunt can only hit up to 5 people... not sure why that is. |
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| I don't know where you got SO'd from my post - I was talking about extreme performance builds, and that at some point you hit "enough" survivability that you simply don't care if something else is better. |
I though you were still talking about Nihilii's post, where it's mentionned that SO mitigation is far from great.
If you were answering to the brute/tanker debat, then yeah, i poped the SO from nowhere.
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
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S'ok. I didn't think you were, but I had already mentioned my aggroholic tendencies earlier in the thread, so I thought it was worth clarifying.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you specifically (I've never grouped with you of to my knowledge
 ). |
I do a fair amount of LGTFs and ITFs, so I've been with brutes, and I don't see anyone replacing anyone else. I end up treating them just like scrappers. Depending on how they're built, they might be able to handle themselves and have a desire to do their own thing. They both fit in very well to my usual "leadership style."
Rule 2: If you think you can handle it, you're free to go for it.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Masterminds are suppose to be the aggro magnets of CoV not brutes.
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You would be correct if they had some kind of taunt power, be it in the inherent or part of their powersets.|
Originally Posted by Mod_Noc
Masterminds are suppose to be the aggro magnets of CoV not brutes.
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Also, they were originally designed without bodyguard mode, so I am hard pressed to believe they were supposed to be tanks.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Well I think they were made to take the Alpha attack and be the Meat Shields, but I do agree that taunting does make aggro management easier.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You would be correct if they had some kind of taunt power, be it in the inherent or part of their powersets.
Also, they were originally designed without bodyguard mode, so I am hard pressed to believe they were supposed to be tanks. |
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What a load of crap.|
Originally Posted by Mod_Noc
Masterminds are suppose to be the aggro magnets of CoV not brutes.
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The whole fury mechanism is built around getting as much agro as you can sustain.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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It is "Crap", but it is true.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
What a load of crap.
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lvl 50 - Elec/WP/Mu Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - Dark/EA/Soul Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - EM/Nin/Soul Mastery Stalker
New Toons
lvl 21 - StJ/WP Stalker
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Yup, That was the devs initial design plan. But as with most plans, it fell completely apart as soon as the players got hold of it.
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Originally Posted by Aumakua
It is "Crap", but it is true.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Mod_Noc
Masterminds are suppose to be the aggro magnets of CoV not brutes.
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Originally Posted by Mod_Noc
Well I think they were made to take the Alpha attack and be the Meat Shields, but I do agree that taunting does make aggro management easier.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Yup, That was the devs initial design plan. But as with most plans, it fell completely apart as soon as the players got hold of it.
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I think this quote from the MM sub-forum sums it up nicely.
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Originally Posted by Telperion
After a run with a MM, logging in a brute feels like i've reeled in a bunch of gangling, hard-to-coordinate limbs into a tight bundle of efficient destruction.
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I haven't read the past few pages but I just wanted ot make one comment.
When I play my brute in RWZ or Cimerora and a tank joins the team...it makes me happy. Why? I no longer have to worry about trying to maintain aggro, etc. Instead, I can now proceed to be the main purpose of my brute...to deal damage.
Let the tanks have their survivability and aggro control. I'd much rather just bash things in the face when I play my brutes.
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Amen |
Originally Posted by Clouded
I haven't read the past few pages but I just wanted ot make one comment.
When I play my brute in RWZ or Cimerora and a tank joins the team...it makes me happy. Why? I no longer have to worry about trying to maintain aggro, etc. Instead, I can now proceed to be the main purpose of my brute...to deal damage. Let the tanks have their survivability and aggro control. I'd much rather just bash things in the face when I play my brutes. |
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I'll take my survivability, aggro control, FURY, *and* damage...
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Originally Posted by Clouded
I haven't read the past few pages but I just wanted ot make one comment.
When I play my brute in RWZ or Cimerora and a tank joins the team...it makes me happy. Why? I no longer have to worry about trying to maintain aggro, etc. Instead, I can now proceed to be the main purpose of my brute...to deal damage. Let the tanks have their survivability and aggro control. I'd much rather just bash things in the face when I play my brutes. |
Well, let's be honest though, brutes don't have any trouble holding aggro. Between taunt auras and pbaoes, none of mine have any trouble keeping mobs' attention.
The main consideration in my mind will be 1) whether you need to be able to tank super high-end stuff (like, villaintanks for the LRSF), and 2) how much money you want to spend.
Brutes can build themselves to be functionally tough as tanks, it's just a lot more expensive, so while I might roll a tank as a random alt or to try out some sets, anything I want to spend serious time with will probably be a brute.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
yeah, think i am done rolling tanks, have 6 of em at 50, a couple more at various levels. One is fully IOed, so I don't have to worry about new stuff.
So far, while I feel stronger in my tanks, I feel just much more powerful in my brutes. If they port swords to brutes, will never play a hero again....
well, not regularly anyway
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
I don't play Villain side anymore but on Hero side I see a lot of controllers on high level Task Forces. I have no idea if Villain side has a similar number of Dominators but it seems to me that heavy control teams on Hero side would reduce a heroic Brute's fury generation.
Just a thought on the whole Brute/Tanker discussion. If course control heavy teams make Tankers sort off extraneous too...
@SBeaudway on Pinnacle, TaskForce Titans Supergroup.
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Not personally or individually. No, masterminds were expected to have their men kinda die semiregularly.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Also, they were originally designed without bodyguard mode, so I am hard pressed to believe they were supposed to be tanks.
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if you know how to play a brute, wouldnt have much of an effect on fury.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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yeah, the problem was that people tend to take the term "aggro control" and extrapolate it to mean "everything beats on one guy"|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Not personally or individually. No, masterminds were expected to have their men kinda die semiregularly.
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I played an MM from CoV beta until they released Elec/Elec for brutes. A common tactic was for me to keep all the minions and lt's busy while everyone nuked the boss. That or I would clear the trash while everyone else kept the AV busy. After I debuffed him tho, /poison used to be so awesome.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Controllers bring buffs to the table, so they tend to be more frequent than Dominators on high level TFs.|
Originally Posted by SBeaudway
I don't play Villain side anymore but on Hero side I see a lot of controllers on high level Task Forces. I have no idea if Villain side has a similar number of Dominators but it seems to me that heavy control teams on Hero side would reduce a heroic Brute's fury generation.
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Multiple control heavy ATs can sometimes cause problems if they get ahead of the Brute, but generally it's not too bad.
I don't have a problem with what you describe, it's basically the Tanker's primary function - although in a co-op environment you might want to work out with any Brutes how they play.
In general, allowing the Brute to build fury fast is better for the team as a whole (because stuff is dying faster).
At most, it will usually mean allowing the Brute to take a few alphas here and there - in practicality most Brutes will be on a headlong charge towards the next spawn with or without the Tankers permission.