Devices: Behind the times?

Heyo Blasters, today I want to share with you all my thoughts on Devices.

Back in the day, Devices was considered the Top-Dog of blaster secondaries, as pre-ED Targeting drone allowed you to get your acc, then slot all your powers for full damages, and be just rediculous.

After ED (and various other things) it seems Devices has fallen from grace, and into the rather unfortunate position of "worst" secondary in general. Sure, you can argue it is great for soloing, but other secondaries can do what it does 200x faster, and sometimes even much safer.

The problem as I see it, is that Devices synergizes with gameplay, not powersets. What this means is that devices is great for certain people who like to set up, sneak around, and watch the payoff for all their work come in one big boom. Unfortunatley, none of the blast sets (except maybe ice due to slows) really compliment this style as they are all about slamming down the damage constantly, and devices just slows the action down and forces them to wait. Another way to look at it is that devices has nothing to offer to the primary set (except +tohit...which they almost all get from Aim). All the secondaries have an immob, or in energy's case an alternate means of keeping a foe at range. Most have a mez, most have some sort of AoE (DoT), and they all have big-hitters. However, what all these sets also have is the ability to pop their abilities on the go, and that is crucial for blasting as we lack the luxury of being able to sit there and let the baddies wail on us as we hide behind armors.

That said, there are alot of unique (to blasters) powers found in devices, that could work very well together...but for some reason dont really seem to.

Let's break it down, shall we?

Web Grenade

Fine as-is, it's the standard immob, and it trades damage for a 50% slow. Awesome.

Caltrops

Caltrops is caltrops: awesome. No need for re-working (although it is a bit odd that a medeival device is used when everything else seems so high...er tech)

Taser

A cool ranged stun with a quick animation. While sweet on it's own...there isnt much synergy with the set's other powers for it. Sure, you could web-nade and stun someone...but as a blaster you could have used that time to lay down the damage. Another thing is why would you use a stun if the point of devices is crowd control and stealth? (caltrops with mines, then smoke grenade / etc to get a variety of foes hurting and exploding from relative safety)

Targeting Drone

Ah, the former best power a blaster could have! Raises Tohit and perception for relativley little cost. The problem nowadays is that the effects can be emulated on any set with rather minimal IO slotting. This power needs something else (besides an interaction with snipe rifle) to make it stand out from what everyone else can do.

Smoke Grenade

This is an interesting power. It lowers ToHit by about 5%, and enemy perception. Unfortunatley, once you damage them they will still realize you're there, and -5 tohit isnt that much defense...

Cloaking Device

CD is essentially stealth without the movement penalty. It's a glorified pool power, and doesnt even make too much sense when you have smoke grenade. Both powers stacked enable you to ghost missions, but are essentially useless in a team setting. Both are also rather useless after you actually attack...which is a blaster's #1 priority.

Trip Mine

Awesome, no real changes needed.

Time Bomb

Suckage, major changes needed.

As it stands, this lemon takes WAYYY too long to set up, WAYYY too long to go off, and does WAYYY too little damage for all that set-up. Hell, 2 trip mines can do more damage in 1/3rd the time.

Gun Drone

I have mixed feeling about the Gun Drone. On the one hand, it is free damage for a while, and can even take aggro off of you. On the other, it is meh at both being a mini-tank and at doing damage...but otherwise it's fine. A neat add-on to any blaster, and to make it better may be making it rediculous.


Ok, so as I see it the problem powers as of today are Taser, Smoke grenade/Cloaking device, time bomb and sadly, Targeting drone.

Starting with the Taser, I feel it is out of place in both use and potencey in this set. Most blasts sets come with a stun/hold that is better, and all secondaries but fire have better control or damage with their control. Taser is odd in that it is also in the set based upon setting up for whatever comes your way...and it works like any stun that youd just pop in when something takes you by surprise.

To fit with the theme, and to add more utility I propose taser be changed slightly to Taser Shockwave.


Well, maybe not slightly.

A Taser Shockwave is a small device used mainly by SWAT that does exactly what Taser would do, but in a cone. The animation could be the same as Trip Mine, and the device be a 1-shot that activates once a foe is infront of it and in range. Otherwise it will behave just like Taser does today in all other regards.


Next up we have the Smoke Grenade and Cloaking device. These two powers, as I explained above, are odd in that one is gimmicky, and the other is a glorified pool power. To fix them up I think they should become a soft control and buff, respectivley.

Smoke Grenade should have the "choke" effect that puts them in a coughing animation, similar to some fire control powers, that will act like the pseudo-hold that Poison Gas Trap has in the form of the puke. It will be a small chance, and un enhanceable, but it will add a new layer of utility and defense to the power as some foes wont attack you/the team while choking.

Cloaking Device should offer another incentive/bonus to using it. As it stands, it is stealth without the movement penalty, and thats about it. Devices lacks any form of +Damage like all other blast sets do, and this could be a perfect place to implement such a bonus. Essentially, while the stealth is active, the user will have a constant +25% damage bonus. This is useful for essentially anything, but especially for alpha-strikes from stealth.

Next up will be Targeting Drone. As stated, TD is currently obsolete thanks to IO's, as anyone can get it's effects automatically. I propose, like with CD, a +25% damage bonus while running it. This easily stacks with the new defiance, making for an attractive bonus for all primaries. Another possible change will be to add the damage bonus it gives to Sniper Rifle, to all Sniper Powers. This will make devices even better for it's stealth abilities, as with CD, TD and the Sniper bonus, you automatically have +50% damage, then a bonus to your snipe. For Sniper Rifle and maybe Dual Pistols it can let them Critical, due to both those sets also lacking AIM.

Lastly, the controversial Time Bomb needs a complete revamp. It's nigh unanimous among players that the power is severley under-performing when compared to anything that has similar roles, especially with the advent of powers such as Omega Manuever. It is also unique in that it can be targeted by enemies, and thus blown up by them, but even then the set-up is way too long for the payoff (2 trip mines do more damage at base).

I propose that it be reworked to have a slightly longer animation than trip-mine, along with 1/6th of the current recharge (aka 1minute). Then, it can work like swap ammo does: toggled effect. Activating the toggle makes you plant the bomb, and maintaining it keeps it from going off. Fortunatley being mezzed will not set it off due to toggle changes. After you un-toggle, it is set off, or if a foe hits it with an AoE, doing the same damage it does now (about 300 @ lvl 50). This change allows it to mesh with other bombs/devices, as well as still be the heavy-hitter.

Summary:

These changes will give devices new utility to bring it up to speed with other secondaries in both soloing and teaming, while keeping it's unique playstyle. It will also have a cool "stealth strike" 50% damage bonus as long as you have both TD and CD, as well as the sniper bonus to make it an even more potent soloer. It offers a neat alternative to the BU powers in that while it doesnt offer as big burst, it is a nigh constant 25-50% buff. Changes to Taser and Time Bomb easily stack with smoke grenade, trip mines and caltrops, as they all can create a death field for opponents once they wander onto it.


Thoughts?

I like a lot of your ideas, you've got to watch out for the cottage role, though. Basically, the devs are extremely reluctant to remove or change the core functionality of a power - target, power type, etc. In this case, it's your suggestion to turn taser into a drop that isn't likely to fly. A cone taser could be done, but it'd have to be a click fired from the player as it is now. Time bomb's change is borderline, but I think you could get away with it.

I really like the rest of what you've got, though. The choke effect on smoke grenade is something I haven't seen suggested before, but it makes perfect sense. I'd even be tempted to give it a pretty good chance to go off, simply because the effect is pretty short - or else make the cloud persistent for 10-20 seconds with an ongoing chance to choke, like traps' poison trap (although not as strong). The only problem I can see is that it'd become pretty hard to justify it being no aggro if it's choking people.

I would vote for the +damage in both cloaking device and targeting drone. The cloaking device damage wouldn't be up too often, so I'd think the drone should have it too.

The design is to have both the +dmage in TD and CD, not one or the other.

as for the no aggro from Smoke Grenade choking...why dont they get suspicious from a smoke grenade going off in the 1st place?

Cottage rule is probably gonna keep taser from seeing a change, yes, but Time Bomb essentially would be the same, but be more user-friendly and tactical as it will mesh more with the set as well as add a unique "detonator" to the game

I like most of your ideas as they would make the set more enjoyable.

I'd just like to point out one current synergy with /dev that blasters have. Sonic blast and/or flash freeze from ice mastery.

The sleep lets you safely set up a mine at their feet and then hit aim and easily kill them with an aoe from your primary. It is pretty fast and very safe.

Sounds neat. Too powerful. I'd forgive my Fire/Dev and AR/Dev for being the turds they are. [no, not that bad, really.]

These are good ideas, but alas ones that have been suggested before and shot down. The idea of having TD having a damage boost was thought to be too strong. Strangely, while the idea was deemed too good for players, it was incorporated into NPCs. Everytime the PPD Ghosts hit my villains with a ranged stealth strike I get a bit sad.

Also, you'll note that the PPD has acid mortar and the equivalent of glue arrow in their arsenal. Imagine if you had those instead of time bomb and smoke grenade respectively.

I've also pitched allowing gun drone to be able to take taunt enhancements and also have a low magnitude taunt associated with it. I don't think this would be unbalancing at all considering the fact that the power does not do significant amounts of damage nor is it on a quick recharge.

I don't think it's all that reasonable for blasters to get a ranged aoe stun. The sleep in the ice app is already ridiculous enough for soloing large groups.

Smoke grenade is fine as it is.

Cloaking device should probably have it's stealth improved, so that you can ghost missions using it all by itself.

Time bomb could be something, anything else. There are a million powers elsewhere in blaster secondaries that could be given a /dev treatment and stuck in here. I don't even really care what it is, as long as it's marginally useful.

The gun drone I think is fine.

Targeting drone is the toughest one. I'm not sure how you can make it relevant to an IO'd build without drastically changing what it does. My dream would be that it becomes the /dev answer to buildup. Maybe it could be a click power with a 20 second damage buff, on a 3 minute cooldown. Or just make it buildup with a different name/graphic.

thanks for the responses

how exactly would a 25% while stealthed, and constant 25% with TD be overpowered exactly?

other secondaries can 2-shot minions with their melee attacks without BU factored in, they also get BU along with various other stuff to aid in damage.

ALL devices get are caltrops and mines, which require the player to set them up and hope they go off right, where as their /fire (for example) counterparts just jump in and kill the mob. Again, doesn't need to have BU to do so usually.

a 25-50% buff depending on stealth or not replaces BU and the lack of secondary damage powers found in all the other secondaries, to make your primary better in exchange for having comparatively lacking damage in the secondary. (and yes seraphael, as I said the +25% from the Cloak is only while the stealth is active, so it'd be for the initial strike. And silencer, I suggested a constant +25% damage buff for TD while it's active....)

Also seraph, I dont think the time bomb should be replaced out-right, as that breaks cottage rule a tad too much. All it needs is a better firing mechanism, so to speak.

I agree with gun drone being fine, why does everyone keep mentioning it?

Devices has a place in the game exactly as it is now. Yes, a couple of the powers suck, but that just leaves you room to take other powers instead.

A number of people like Devices precisely because there is no other blaster secondary even remotely similar to it.

I don't really have a major problem with any of the changes you suggest here, but it really seems like you're trying to make Devices more like the other 5 secondaries, and I'm not convinced that's a good thing.

I think that was sort of the goal, to make it more useful with primary sets (like the other secondaries?). The suggested changes are simple enough and wouldn't nullify any existing playing styles, to my knowledge.

Well, except for taser shockwave. I would probably just make taser a small cone with a target cap of 4 or so.

You can skip powers in any set to take other powers that you want. That doesn't mean that every set should have 2-3 powers that are functionally useless.

Devices has a niche playstyle, sure. The stealthy toe-bombing, set-up and deliver the payload is very cool, but its just inefficient.

With the way the core game is set up - defeat more enemies to get XP, and you nee dlots of XP to get new shinies like powers and slots - its really hard to come up with an alternative playstyle to repeatable one-click AoE damage. Anything that slows down the "find group, carpet bomb group, next group" playstyle is going to have trouble, and I think thats where Devices is now.

I agree that a damage buff for targetting Drone would be a good idea, since that was the original pre-ED deal - it gave you +33% damage.

I'd also lower the interrupt and recharge on Trip Mines a bit. The large trap for Ebs/AVs is a nice idea, but suffers a bit too much from the time it takes to set up currently in 99% of the game. When it works (eg Mary MacComber mission) its awesome, but thats the minortiy of gameplay currently.

Feel free to check out gadgets for girls for a giggle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Player99 Targeting Drone Ah, the former best power a blaster could have! Raises Tohit and perception for relativley little cost. The problem nowadays is that the effects can be emulated on any set with rather minimal IO slotting. This power needs something else (besides an interaction with snipe rifle) to make it stand out from what everyone else can do.

While it is not very appealing now, it has resistance against to-hit and perception debuff. So, the power does have something that stands out.

while true, the point is that the power is overshadowed by IOs you can get on ANY character these days.

Yep. Devices used to offer a bit of Defence, a bit of Stealth and some extra accuracy and some extra perception amongst other things. Now anyone can get any of these using IOs.

That's how to nerf a set without changing a single thing about it

The dev's hate changing anything for the better...hence stupid stuff like wtf ever a cottage rule is. device's pretty much sucks and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. do not hold your breath. it will happen when bases get fixed. (read into that how you will)

I like the suggestions other than Taser and Smoke Grenade.

Taser is perfect as is. I found myself wondering why you were saying what you were saying about it. The big points about taser are 1) not everything goes according to plan, and a stun can give you the time you may need and 2) it combines with another stun to stun a Boss (And that is something very valuable).

Smoke Grenade is best if it remains a non-aggro power. If your suggestion wouldn't include creating aggro, I have no problem with that. It would be cool, but could be over-powered (The small chance to cause choking might not make it over-powered, but if it is that small of a chance, how important of a change is this then?). Maybe the - To Hit could be increased in Smoke Grenade (But don't look at me, I'm not that much of a numbers guy).


I love the idea for Time Bomb. Really, all I'd like for Time Bomb is the ability to trigger it ourselves (If we don't want to wait for the timer to expire).

If the powers-that-be deemed that these changes for Targeting Drone and Cloaking Device wouldn't make it over-powered... what's not to like about those changes.

Anyways, what I like about the suggestions, overall, is that they don't go against the Devices style of play.
Many people want to change it to resemble the other secondaries too similarly.
These changes just give it a bit of a boost and some bonuses that could be used in other playstyles... without taking away the current Devices playstyle.

Still, I think that you were way off about Taser. Just off the top of my head... Both Assault Rifle and Archery combine with taser to allow for a Boss hold.

meh, I guess @ taser.

I just thought it was a kind of "odd-one-out" when compared to the other devices powers.

Smoke Grenade still would not aggro, but having the chance of "choke" makes it a bit safer after you actually abuse their -acc/percep after attacking, as they then see you (gets rid of the percep thing) and the -tohit is negligable at best

@medic:

only 1 power I suggested be fixed breaks cottage rule, and it's the one of rather least importance (that would also look rather cewl when changed ). Everythign else is just about changing some buffs or MINOR effects.

Giving Cloaking Device a 'Stealth Strike' component would be a huge boost, IMO.
With Smoke grenade, why not make it a bit like Ninjitsu's Blinding Powder? -ToHit, chance for Confuse, non-aggro. Win-win.

Taser works fine as it is, although I would love the hand-held taser that Malta still have (increase duration for making it melee? )

Targetting drone should cost about half the endurance it costs at present, and some sort of synergy with all sets would be nice, agreed.

Time bomb and Gun Drone need some overhauling, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

i dont think gun-drone really needs a touch-up, as it's free damage and extra Hp as some attacks avert to it.

however, giving it the Sparky treatment (duration = recharge) wouldnt hurt >.>

almost every build that involves sets gets +acc, which essentially builds up to equal or surpass what you get from TD, making the power no longer "sell" devices to some people.