Ladder Captains' Vote/Suggestions
By
Borderline Boss,
Posted on: 2010-05-23 24:23 in Everything about PvP
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Yeah I agree, H/A/R seemed fair. Besides wasn't picking maps on the pvp wishlist pre-13? We got like 2 things from it, might as well use it to the best of our ability!
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Originally Posted by macskull
H/A/R vs R/R/R because R/R/R eliminates the ability to run teams tailored to a specific map and basically turns it into a gamble of "do we run this team and hope for this map, or do we just run a jump team," and every match being a jump team is boring as hell.
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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haha |
Originally Posted by Vexington
Cheers! |
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
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Potatoes
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Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
haha
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Originally Posted by perilX
DAT ***** BE MAD AHAHAHAHAHAHA
DAX EVRYTHING SLIPRY SLPE IF NOT ME WAY I RAGE U AJAJAJAJAJA k |
Please keep this to ladder captains only.
Other than the map picking rule the only two things we'd be voting differently on are the Stalker lineup and the way lineups are submitted (or not submitted). I don't know if our vote would swing those rulings in any way but if it would we'd put in for a 3-Stalker limit and counterpick lineups.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I like how counterpicking lineups is seriously being presented as an option.
I do too.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I so feel like I'm missing something with counterpicking.
"They have stalkers, how many? Get enough VEAT's and or MM's to cover that."
"Okay, they are getting VEAT's to counter our stalkers, go get blasters."
"Alright, they got blasters again, back to the jump team. Match starting yet?"
I know its not just that, you see a FF'er around? Double check everyones KB protection.
Colds? Make sure you have a Kin or Therm.
Taunters, maybe bring some of your own to counter or just bring more dam.
TA, bring a Kin.
MM's, anyone have any AoE toons left? I think it'd be kinda awesome to see 3 or 4 Fire/Em's come back out for something like that...
Not saying these would be the best counters or anything like that. I just assume most teams will have one or two people at least who know what to bring when someone else brings X. And see how many times you can go back and forth before the match has to start.
Sounds like alot of fun and by fun I mean a boring headache that is completely pointless and can be done through anticipation of line ups.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Daknah
Sounds like alot of fun and by fun I mean a boring headache that is completely pointless and can be done through anticipation of line ups.
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yeah i mean, rolling dice on line-ups; far more fun. (i am being sarcastic, don't get a headache now).
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Originally Posted by Daknah
Sounds like alot of fun and by fun I mean a boring headache that is completely pointless and can be done through anticipation of line ups.
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bad assumption.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Not saying these would be the best counters or anything like that. I just assume most teams will have one or two people at least who know what to bring when someone else brings X. And see how many times you can go back and forth before the match has to start.
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there's a lot of stupid people in this ladder.
Winning matches should be about espionage and confusing the other teams into running the wrong lineup, not actually outplaying the other team.
I change my vote to "counterpicking".
I wonder which team will win!
wat
EDIT: I'm not particularly invested in either type of lineup submission (double-blind or counterpick) but I'm curious as to why people seem to be against it. If matches start on time, does it really matter how people determine what is brought to a match?
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I'll try and break it down.
Match start times have little if anything to do with it. One team will always get to pick what they bring last, even with a strict match start time. The team that chooses its lineup last obviously has an advantage. Double blind lineups ensure that no team chooses its lineup last.
Honestly, yes, time was the biggest issue for dUmb. Toward the end of the old ladder, we were willing to just tell the other team what we were bringing so that they could plan accordingly and not make us wait while they discussed the best possible counters. The desire to maximize our line-up potential was trumped by our desire to start matches within an hour of their scheduled time...but we STILL had to wait a number of times. Personally, I just assumed the wait was going to be long, so I just waited patiently and joked around with whoever was on at the time. But a number of our players would always be irritated, and I'm pretty sure we had players more than once log off before we ever started round 1...which typically resulted in the other team having to counter again because we ended up having to sub in a different player.
So, what I'm hearing is "enforce start times" as a solution to the above. I believe someone has already mentioned the possibility of a team partially loading into the arena terminal, watching the other team load in a full team, and then waiting to the last second and joining up with the perfect counter line-up to that team and starting the round (if they can). I don't think teams would actually do that because it's pointless; most teams would call bs and demand a chance to counter...and then, assumming the other team is agreeable, you're right back to waiting while counters can be done until both teams are relatively happy with their chances. Either way, counter-picking requires at least some wait time and last-second strategy changes. Some people loved that process because they considered it part of the match. Others despised it because they either considered strategy changes to be an irritant, or they just hated the time spent in that part of the process.
Like I said before, personally, I don't care...but I don't see how strict start times can be enforced while keeping things fair, since there remains the possibility of the hard start time being reached as one team has just placed a counter. The other team can say "No, wait. I know the cut-off time has been reached, but you guys just made a counter that requires a counter on our end." The fact that there are less-informed PvP'rs on the whole can also translate into counter-picking taking even longer.
Counter picking is annoying as hell. It's not a big deal, but the process is effing annoying.
I didn't mean to leave out the biggest downside (imo) to the double-blind submission process: the potential of the line-ups submitted totally deciding a round's outcome. I just don't think there is any perfect process, which is why I'm not personally bound to either one. I think it's best if everyone understands what it is they're voting for, though.
*Not in this ladder, but trowing my 2 attacks anyways*
I dislike the double-blind lineups because it creates gimmicks. I dislike not having it because of the freakin long wait times.
I personally didn't dislike counter switching, In fact, its sometimes how I planned out lineups. If I knew what my team played best. If we forced the other team into a lineup they either didn't practice, or had a weaker player playing a support role, our goal was successful.
The issue you are going to have in enforcing the limit is this: Whose time determines that you're late and who rules on the DQ for that round? If Team A has 8 people in the match and Team B has 7 and its 30 seconds till - there isn't room for a third party to watch to rule on issue because the third party is taking team B's last spot.
You could start each match as 8v8v8 and have a third party present I guess, but that just prolongs the process by having to have them leave and resetting to a 8v8.
So...how bout you guys just run without blind lineups submits and try to enforce the 15 minute rule? If you get drama, then you know you need to work on the rules a little better.
It might be best to get the ladder off the ground first and see if problems arise before you end up taking to long and having people get bored/not want to participate anymore.
Pretty sure this isnt an issue since it was a land slide in favor of double blind.
Defender tk is allegedly fixed on test and can come off the list of banned powers if so.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Hint: dUmb will run goofy lineups, can we have double-blind now?
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Has anyone used Def TK on test? I haven't, personally. I read it was fixed, but that's the extent.
Yeah, I need this confirmed as well. Assuming it's fixed, this is what the draft I have now looks like:
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Look it over very carefully and point out problems, etc. (Btw, mac voted for the alernating map pick process for Convenient, meaning it win 4-2 over the all random map option.)
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Initial Ladder Entry and Positioning: Initial ladder placement will be determined by a tournament on Sunday, June 13th, at 9:30PM ET. Each team will play a 10-minute, random-map round against every other team. Match settings will conform to ladder standards: No Travel Suppression, No Heal Decay, Observers On, Small Inspirations Only, and Super Heavyweight. Head-to-head results will be used as the first tie-breaker for teams with identical records, followed by additional rounds if necessary. After the initial ladder placement tournament, new teams sign up for the ladder by announcing so in this thread after creating an official team thread (on these same PvP Arena boards) with their official roster and team name. Challenge Process and Positioning Changes: Teams may climb rungs by challenging and beating teams on higher rungs. Challenges are to be made and responded to in this thread. Challenges must be accepted by teams that are less than 3 rungs higher than the challenging team. (Teams on rungs higher than 2 spots above the challenging teams can refuse the challenge.) Challenging teams can only move up 1 rung at a time by winning matches against teams on higher rungs. Challenges must be responded to by a challenged team's captain within 48 hours or the challenging team is awarded a forfeit. Captains have 48 hours to work out a match date after a challenge has been accepted. If captains cannot settle on a match day and time within 48 hours of an accepted challenge, the match defaults to taking place on the 2nd Sunday that follows the accepted challenge date; the match time for a default date is 9:30PM ET. Banned Powers List: Banned: Dominator Poisonous Ray Banned: Corrupter Lingering Radiation Team Captains must be able to show proof for a ruling to be made on the use of restricted powers, enhancements, and/or procs. Use of the above-listed powers will result in a forfeit for the violating team. Match Rules: All matches will take place in Pocket D, Test Server. If Test is down, Freedom Server will be used as a substitute during that time, though a captains' meeting will take place to determine the continuation process; until that meeting, any schedule matches are put on hold. Matches will consist of 10-minute rounds by default. If both captains are agreeable, 20-minute rounds are permissible. Rounds will be played until 2 rounds have been won by one of the teams. Matches will be 8v8. If both captains agree to it, team sizes may be reduced. Round Wins: The team that has scored the most kills at the end of a 10 (or 20) minute round is the winner of that round. Rounds in which Sudden Death occurs are considered ties, no matter the result of the Sudden Death Round. Round Details: Round Length: All rounds will be 10 minutes in length by default. If both team captains are agreeable, 20 minutes rounds are permissible. Round Settings: All rounds will be set with only the following options selected: No Travel Suppression; No Heal Decay; Small Inspirations Only, Super Heavyweight. Map Selection and Illegal Maps: Map selection will alternate for the first two rounds of a match; the defending team picks the map in round 1, and the challenging team picks the map for round 2. All additional rounds will be set to Random map selection. Resets occur if the map draw is: Monkey Cage, Office, or Cave. Each team is allowed one reset within 60 seconds of round start if a player did not load into the round, disconnected, or loaded in off-team. Teams will play short-handed if their reset has been spent. If a round is reset, the line-ups submitted for that round are to be played again with no AT alterations and on the same map. Only small inspirations and temp powers bought from the Arena Store are allowed. No Base Buffs or special inspirations (i.e. Presents and SoWs) are permitted. No more than 2 stalkes may be included in any line-up. Barcode-type names will not be permitted. Player names shall be easily distinguishable. If 4 or more players from the same team disconnect from a round, that team forfeits the round. No Ouroboros portals will be permitted during the match. All matches must start within 15 minutes of the agreed upon match time. This includes time required to submit and approve line-ups. Match Results: The captain of the winning team must post the match results in the official ladder thread within 24 hours of match completion. Both team captains should be prepared to supply screenshots of the results for all rounds if necessary. Line-up Submission Rules and Procedures: Prior to each round of a match, the captains of each team will be required to present their lineups via private tells to a neutral, 3rd party line-up taker (agreed upon by team captains). The 3rd party line-up taker will ask both captains for their lineups at least 5 minutes prior to the start of each round. The line-up taker will announce that the round is playable once he or she has received both team line-ups. The line-up taker will NOT disclose the line-ups to anyone until both line-ups have been received. A team will forfeit the round if they do not submit a line-up prior to that round. A team will forfeit the round if they run any line-up other than the one submitted to the line-up taker. General Match Procedure: 1. Team Captains present their lineups to the agreed upon line-up taker. 2. In arena chat, the line-up taker announces both line-ups and that the round is cleared to start. 3. The round is listed and played out. Roster Eligibility: Players that have not been on a previous ladder roster are immediately eligible to compete in matches. Players that have been on a previous ladder roster and are added to a different ladder roster are not eligible to compete in any matches for their new team until sitting out 1 official match while on that roster. This rule is subject to waiver if both captains are agreeable. |
H/A/R vs R/R/R because R/R/R eliminates the ability to run teams tailored to a specific map and basically turns it into a gamble of "do we run this team and hope for this map, or do we just run a jump team," and every match being a jump team is boring as hell.
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."