.....Are you on drugs right now?
Can we get rid of Statesman now?
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Originally Posted by Tongz
I mean, he's not that interesting of a character anyway compared to Posi and Sis Psyche, and hey... he doesn't even work here anymore.
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Plus, he wears a stupid half helmet/half mask thing that looks goofy. I'm all for this idea.
But then we'd have to replace him with 4 clones, and that never ends well. (Armor Statesman, Kid Statesman, Cyborg Statesman, and Silly Glasses Statesman.)
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I'd like it if they did SOMETHING with him, other than having him stand around going "Me big bad good guy, me real tough, lolol!11" etc etc.
Y'know...anything? Other than him being a cheating **** in the LRSF...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah. Good idea. You can flush him like a turd.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'd like it if they did SOMETHING with him, other than having him stand around going "Me big bad good guy, me real tough, lolol!11" etc etc.
Y'know...anything? Other than him being a cheating **** in the LRSF... |
Hmm, a memorial?
Hows about a statue positioned so that he looks like (If you're standin' in the right place) you're just about to get smashed with some form of Bat.
Be a nice place for the kids to get thier photo taken.
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Read the novels. The best portrayals of Statesman you're going to get. And IMO, they redeemed his character after his constant jerkish appearances in the comics.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
I mean, he's not that interesting of a character anyway compared to Posi and Sis Psyche
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Of course, I'm not really clear on how Positron or Psyche are necessarily more interesting. None of them really do much in the game at the moment outside of give TFs and fight villains in a few arcs.
But then, here I go taking joke posts seriously.
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I'm trying to decide if this is a For Fun suggestion, or a I'm serious, let's actually do this suggestion. I guess I'll treat it as a I'm Serious suggestion.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
I mean, he's not that interesting of a character anyway compared to Posi and Sis Psyche, and hey... he doesn't even work here anymore.
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No. One of the big problems with the City of Heroes lore is that Jack Emmert's Statesman plays a part in many of the storylines that created the environment that is Paragon City, and indirectly, the environment that is the Rogue Isles. "Getting Rid" of Statesman because his original player was a, well, jerk, and is no longer with the company would require rewriting nearly all of the game's cannon storyline... and coming up with a new lead character who would have to do all the things Statesman did in order to create the story as it is now.
I think one of the issues here is the lack of separation between the character of Statesman and the person of Jack Emmert. For the purposes of the game, I think the writers approach Statesman in the terms of what would Statesman do, not as what would Jack Emmert PLAYING Statesman do. Which, is an issue as Statesman is more than a little bland. He's Heroic; a Boy Scout; upholds Truth, Justice, and the American Way; he's an American Patriot; and... so on and so forth. We get it. He's our answer to Superman and Captain America.
It is also annoying, in some aspects, that two of the Game's major archvillains are alternate dimensional versions of Statesman: Reichsman and Tyrant. To be fair, many of the signature characters do have Praetorian counterparts, and Mother Mayhem is far more threatening than Tyrant in Maria's arc, unless you have some protection to PSI.
So, getting rid of Statesman is pretty much out of the question.
RETIRING Statesman.... hmm. That could be interesting. Wonder what would happen if The Shivan Storm was too much for States to handle...
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You mean, it would end with him coming back?|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
But then we'd have to replace him with 4 clones, and that never ends well. (Armor Statesman, Kid Statesman, Cyborg Statesman, and Silly Glasses Statesman.)
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And worse, somewhere down the line, having two of him!
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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We've already got THREE of him as is.
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Originally Posted by Kiken
You mean, it would end with him coming back?
And worse, somewhere down the line, having two of him! |
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Well, now I want a Silly Glasses Statesman.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
But then we'd have to replace him with 4 clones, and that never ends well. (Armor Statesman, Kid Statesman, Cyborg Statesman, and Silly Glasses Statesman.)
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Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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Four, if you count Imperious |
Originally Posted by je_saist
We've already got THREE of him as is.
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Also, the character of Statesman in the game is only vaguely connected to the character Jack created - the CoH Statesman was created by another designer as an important part of the game lore, and wasn't just inserted as a vanity thing by Jack - he just added the name.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If you're joking, it's not funny and has been done before.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
I mean, he's not that interesting of a character anyway compared to Posi and Sis Psyche, and hey... he doesn't even work here anymore.
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If you're serious, then that's badly misguided, specifically because it mistakes personal problems with the Statesman aka Jack Emmert and the Statesman aka Marcus Cole. It also misses the point that, as much as people spit in Jack's general direction his is still responsible for most of the lore we have even now. Most of Paragon City's backstory, and I dare say a lot of the Rogue Isles' as well, can be laid at his feet. Granted, Crypitic did get professional writers at some point, but Jack had a way of bringing the world to life and integrating even stupid and minor changes into canon.
Where Jack failed was in the more mundane aspects of managing the game, such as balance intent and vision of game mechanics, but when it comes to lore and related subjects, he did more than good. To be honest, as much as I'm a fan of Paragon Studios and what they've done with the game, their additions to the lore over the past few Issues (I17 notwithstanding) have been ham-handed at best. An Architect building in every zone, even zones it had no business being in (like Croatoa and the War Zone), a dozen Merit Vendors per zone, even when you don't need even one in every zone and so on and so forth.
Going Rogue seems to be a turning point in the game's story and lore, apparently having been given serious thought and consideration, but the stories in the previous Issues? Ugh! I'm still reeling from the 5th Column TFs and how they mangled that storyline, as thought the 5th Column were crapped on enough as it is. Their timeline no longer makes sense, and I'm not sure it has made sense since I3.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually, a rather fair chunk of the story bible was written by Rick Dakan. I'm not really sure what the split of the work is between him and Jack, but I'd definitely credit Dakan (and later, Sean Fish) with bringing the universe to life over Jack.
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I do tend to think that they should use him or lose him. If he's Paragon City's premier hero, he ought to have better digs than a barge in IP. Recluse does.
And insofar as lore is presented in the game itself, as opposed to novels or the comic books, I get a far clearer picture of Atlas, Back Alley Brawler, Blue Steel ---- and for that matter Spanky Rabinowitz --- than I do of Statesman.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Statesman? |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I do tend to think that they should use him or lose him. If he's Paragon City's premier hero, he ought to have better digs than a barge in IP. Recluse does.
And insofar as lore is presented in the game itself, as opposed to novels or the comic books, I get a far clearer picture of Atlas, Back Alley Brawler, Blue Steel ---- and for that matter Spanky Rabinowitz --- than I do of Statesman. |
"He's a Hero!"
What has he done?
"He's a Hero because we wrote that he was a hero so he's a hero! "
But what makes him heroic?
"He got his power from the well of the furies! "
But that's not what makes him heroic...
"He's a hero!"
But what has he done to be a Hero?
"He fought in the Rikti War but wasn't on the Omega Team and certainly didn't die for the sake of others unlike Galaxy Girl, Atlas, or most of the Omega Team! But he's a Hero!"
Honestly.. I get that the novels might make him out to be more of a hero. But from a pure lore in the game standpoint he's just... There. He's a hero because he is a Hero. That's all, really. He's also such a huge hero that one body couldn't contain his heroicness. So there's an Ancient hero who is, basically, him, and an Evil(?) hero that is also him from another reality.
I think Jack (Statesman!) Emmert took a cue from Richard Garriot and auto-inserted himself as the game's single most important person as an ego trip. No reason he's the hero. He just -IS-. Of course I expect no less from someone who thinks people who enjoy roleplaying and character development are doing it wrong.
-Rachel-
I once made a suggestion that they should have Statesman and Lord Recluse kill each other in an epic battle, and then let Positron and Ghost Widow take over the Phalanx and Arachnos respectively.
Then they could move away from the frankly quite boring vendetta that seems to drive the entire Arachnos plot and do something more interesting with it.
If they don't want to actually kill them, they could have them shunted off to another dimension where they will be locked in eternal battle, constantly preventing each other from figuring out how to come home.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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I'd prefer kill. But this also works well... Oh hey! Statesman can be the one "Destined One" who kills Recluse -and- dies, without the world ending. That can be the coming storm, right? Pleeeeeeeeeeeease?|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I once made a suggestion that they should have Statesman and Lord Recluse kill each other in an epic battle, and then let Positron and Ghost Widow take over the Phalanx and Arachnos respectively.
Then they could move away from the frankly quite boring vendetta that seems to drive the entire Arachnos plot and do something more interesting with it. If they don't want to actually kill them, they could have them shunted off to another dimension where they will be locked in eternal battle, constantly preventing each other from figuring out how to come home. |
-Rachel-
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Actually we "know" that the Storm has something to do with the Shivan's from your final introductory mission into Ouroborus. Beyond that...
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
I'd prefer kill. But this also works well... Oh hey! Statesman can be the one "Destined One" who kills Recluse -and- dies, without the world ending. That can be the coming storm, right? Pleeeeeeeeeeeease?
-Rachel- |
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That can be what the giant web is doing! Calling down the Shivans. Statesman finds out and goes after Recluse while the heroes and villains are fighting against the Shivvies. At the end of the Invasion event (you know that's what it will be!) have a big TF in which both States and Recluse fight to the death!|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Actually we "know" that the Storm has something to do with the Shivan's from your final introductory mission into Ouroborus. Beyond that...
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There! Project Destiny AND The Coming Storm both resolved along with the death of States and Recluse!
-Rachel-
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Well, the Rikti mothership in White Plains (which then became the Rikti Crash Site, which later became the Rikti War Zone) was put there by Statesman single-handed...|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
But what has he done to be a Hero?
"He fought in the Rikti War but wasn't on the Omega Team and certainly didn't die for the sake of others unlike Galaxy Girl, Atlas, or most of the Omega Team! But he's a Hero!" |
Of course, that makes one wonder why he didn't destroy the other motherships.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
That can be what the giant web is doing! Calling down the Shivans. Statesman finds out and goes after Recluse while the heroes and villains are fighting against the Shivvies.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Well, I am sort of indifferent about old Statesman, I missed the whole Jack thing entirely almost so have never seen him as Statesman, but all I have to go on concenring him is, he stands around in a light of awesome, he makes the occasional speech, he can punch space ships out the sky and errm he punches villains in one arc but dont seem all that interested in punching villains. I mean he seems to have a bit of a odd edge to him as well, he dont seem to mind that Longbow go about beating on people in the streets of Mercy, some of which might not even be escappes from the zig.
Yet when Arachnos sends its soldiers to Paragon to rough some heroes up, they are the scum of the universe! Even though Recluse don't do that much he is a more interesting character than Statesman, he does have a vision, he is working towards something, and it seems now despite his vendetta against statesman its more Liberty who is interested in trying to reason with Recluse. Where as States as a whole seems to stand around going LOL RECLUSE. Even the reason on the vendetta seems to be more because Statesman is now a figurehead for good not for anything hes done recently. Maybe the books expand on this, I am just going on what we see or what I have seen in game.
So just going on that Statesman dont seem to really do much of anything though I dont hate the character as I dont think of him as Jack so humm in game thus far removing him wouldnt really matter but the devs no do have a chance to make him show what hes really about and perhaps make him more likable or at least give him a personality of his own.
The end is just a new beginning, Goodbye all my coh friends and even the enemies, its been a blast I will miss you all. Thank you Paragon team, you gave me a home from home I will always appriciate it.
Actually, No. I hadn't. >.>
And I have to reply: So what? That doesn't change a whole heck of a lot. It could still be a gigantic tuning fork set to Shivan frequency going "HEY! WE'RE OVER HERE! Drop in and say hi!" Even if that's not it's original design.
-Rachel-
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Statesman dies or is killed, disappears. Recluse of primal earth leads the fight against Tyrant the man who murdered recluse in the praetorian universe and Recluse becomes primal earths reluctant hero. |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
That can be what the giant web is doing! Calling down the Shivans. Statesman finds out and goes after Recluse while the heroes and villains are fighting against the Shivvies. At the end of the Invasion event (you know that's what it will be!) have a big TF in which both States and Recluse fight to the death!
There! Project Destiny AND The Coming Storm both resolved along with the death of States and Recluse! -Rachel- |
I mean, he's not that interesting of a character anyway compared to Posi and Sis Psyche, and hey... he doesn't even work here anymore.