New toon, Scrapper or Brute?

I have decided to roll up another new toon. While at first I was contemplating a non melee toon (almost 6 years now and all I've managed to get past 30 is Scraps, brutes, and a single blaster) then I realized I had been smelling my dogs farts and needed some air.

After clearing my mind, I decided.
Fire Melee and Invulnerability.
Now the only question is, Scrapper or Brute?
I don't really prefer one A/T over the other, and I have more than a couple of each at 50.

So can someone help sway my decision?

Forgot to mention, I will be doing some PvP with this toon, as well as the late game tfs/sfs frequently.

Brute: Higher base HP means you get more out of Dull Pain.
Scrapper: No need to chase fury.
Brute: DoT on Fiery Melee attacks Are affected by fury's damage buff but are Not affected by crits.

Brute wins.

Scrapper > pvp > brute ?

The PvP would be mostly for fun, not really concerned with trash talking and stuff. I have no problem with fury. I think of it as an incentive to have scrapperlock. Guess I'll be goin redside. With that said, anybody wanna make a new toon on Freedom and join me? lol

I prefer Brutes to Scrappers in general. There are a few exceptions where I pick scrappers over brutes. Scrappers benefit from damage buffs MUCH more than brutes. So if you are rolling sets that buff your damage for a considerable portion of your smacking things, scrappers will have much sexier orange numbers (not talking exreme conditions but general play).

This will be moot once GR hits and Brutes can take APPs but on some builds I love Physical perfection so much, that I roll scrappers just for that.

That being said, I love fury. I love chasing fury, and I love sets such as WP and Inv on brutes. The higher HP is small but makes a difference in my play experience. For Fire/Inv I'd do brute over scrapper. But I think the biggest difference will be personal prefference.

And as always, dude, you get a friggin fist as an AT icon for brutes, how can you beat that?

Go with the brute if you want superior overall performance. Brutes are not ridiculously better, but they do have more advantages. And don't let the 'fury mechanic' scare you off. Completely ignore it if you want, and you'll still be at 50%-75% fury most of the time, which means you'll be doing similar damage to scrappers while having superior health and mitigation caps. Once you become a non-stop killing machine, you'll be doing more damage most of the time as well.

In regards to rttc and the fact it detoggles, all because of the miniscule to hit debuff it applies, is a terrible design decision.

I see in a variety of threads stating that Brutes now have difficulty in reaching scrapper level damage though for some reason when I monitor the real numbers, the damage bonus from Fury seems to make the scalar difference up in a heartbeat.

.75 (brutes) *150% = 1.125 (scrapper). Without considering criticals (which only really improve damage by the critical rate... significant but not more than 12%) Brute damage equals scrapper damage at 50% damage bonus from Fury? My damage bonus monitor often seems to top 100% without inspirations and without difficulty. What am I missing? Is my damage bonus monitor not correctly reporting the bonus?

I'm not certain, but I think your damage bonus monitor is reporting base damage enhancement. Enhancements also improve damage. So do build up powers, team buffs, and so on. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that everyone averages about 140% enhancement, and that your damage bonus is reporting 120%.

Brute: 75 * (100% base + 140% enhancement + 120% buff from fury) = 270
Scrapper: 112.5 * (100% base + 140% enhancement) * 110% criticals = 297

NOTE: I have no idea if I'm doing this right. I've played a few brutes, but never number crunched them, or cared much about inter-AT differences as long as I'm having fun and others say they're at least vaguely in range of each other.

(Edit: Didn't see Bill's post before posting. I gather I'm doing it right, then.)

One thing that I can say that I definitely like better about my Brutes than my Scrappers is that I can somewhat gauge my ability to kill a target, since there aren't the oh-so-random chances to crit and that I don't have to waste my big damage attacks on a minion with less than half health unless I choose to. In otherwords, I've had several countless occassions on my Scrappers where I'll get dang near zero crits on a boss during a fight...and turn around and get a critical on both minions standing next to him...even though they are already at like 1/4 health and 1 "regular non-crit" attack would have taken each out anyways. It's sorta the same frustration a Corruptor gets when his Scrouge doesn't actually kick in or work until a mob is at less than 10% hp...at that point Scrouge was just overkill and the "non" Scourged attack would have gotten the job done just fine.


Anyways, in the end, I still sorta lean just a tad more towards Scrappers as my favorite for some reason lol

I see the point with scrappers getting more out of enhancements. Generally speaking it seems that my brute (KM/FA i have made the same toon as a scrapper as an experiment) runs around with a fairly consistent fury of 65~70% though KM might be playing faster than the animations feel. I think the damage auras (which don't crit?) seem to play into the brutes strength - sustained damage vrs burst.
Also as enhancements seem to play such a large role in the scrapper's advantage and my slotting habits are generally poor until the end game (im kind of stingy) it may be that my scrapper simply hasnt reached the point yet where additional enhancement values times the scalar multiple have reached the benefits from Fury.

I'm not sure the play time has been exact but it appears as the brute is progressing much faster.

Hmm wait a second. The communicative property seems to be in effect here.

If Scalar * critical modifier = Scalar * fury modifier. Then additional enhancements to either side wouldn't effect the equality of the equation.

Unless of course Fury only modifies the un-enhansed base damage and not the slotted value. Is that the case? Does the global damage bonus only effect the unsloted portion of a power?

I see what your saying, but in the long run a criticals are only a damage buff equal to the chance for a critical. 10% of double damage is really only a 10% damage buff over time. That said if any given level of fury makes unenhanced damage for brutes = unenhanced levels of scrappers-including criticals, then bonuses added on equally to both the scrapper and the Brute do not affect the final outcome.

We know unsloted power X on scrappers does 1.125 *1.1 (critical) and for brute does .75 * (1+fury)

Assuming fury to be 32.5% then the Damage buff is %65 ( or %165 of normal damage) and both sides of the equation are equal. (1.125 * 1.1) = 1.2375 = (.75 * 1.65)

Slotting should not have any bearing on this equality because 2*3*4= 4*3*2. We know that when you multiply both sides of the equation by a constant the equation remains true.

All Scalar differences are made up when Fury grants a %65 damage bonus. As long as that bonus applies to the final slotted damage and not just the base damage of a power then all things are equal. I guess the question is

"Is damage calculated (Base * Scalar* enhancement*((1+Global damage bonus)) or is it calculated (Base*enhancement*scalar)+(Base* Scalar *(1+Global damage bonus)) ?"

To the OP, ask yourself this question: Which mechanic do you like better, crits or fury? The answer to that question is your answer to which AT to play imho.

Me? I love Spines. Gimme gimme more spines scrappers. Spines/WP, Spines/Dark, Spines/Fire, heck I'd do Spines/Spines if I could.

Now if they ever give Spines to Brutes.......I'm done for. Absolutely done for. Because then I will have no farking clue what AT to play either as I love them both.