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That's one of the primary reasons people complain that the game's engine is old. It was old even when the game launched in 2004. Through a series of delays and rewrites, the game managed to launch a few years after it was supposed to, and it's been an uphill battle since then. It's easy to understand why people keep clamouring for "a new engine," impossible as that may be.
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Originally Posted by PureAmerican
Another funny thing is the article says the game would be released July 2001.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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To be honest I sub to this game but I dont play it, I play Champions, and you are dead on right. I have a nice 260GTX card and a 26 inch 1080P HD monitor, I checked out "ultra-graphics" and was severely disappointed. All due respect to the work that they put into this game, but I wouldn't shine up my old 2001 pickup and call it a 2010, what's under the hood is what matters. So you ask yourself, the models in the screenshots look exactly like the ones in the game today. I have more scans to make, but you will say "hey that costume piece is still around and still looks the same" they said that the game was due out in 2001, so that means the models have been around since when ...1999- 2000 ?? When I get home from work I will finish the scans, you'll see there is not much difference in the skins on those models. Even Atlas Park looked the same in 2001.
CO has a newer engine, yet somehow it runs so much worse for so little gain. Same deal with STO - the graphics don't warrant the grunt needed.
In before GG starts argueing with the guy about CO. 
Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TL
R"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno
Huh... That looks like a point based system, like you see in Mutants and Masterminds or HERO System (Which is what Champions is based off of).
You get a set number of points, and you can use them to buy powers. Then you gather more points as experience.
I guess that was too difficult to implement in an MMO. I kind of like the more traditional system we have now.
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Exactly. I don't know what went into the creation of Champions Online, but that game's graphics offend my senses. I'm not sure if it's bad quality or ****** artwork, but if there's one central reason why I hate the game, that would be it. Like World of Warcraft, I just can't stand to look at it. Forget City of Heroes. I would pick Oni over that, and that's saying something.
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
CO has a newer engine, yet somehow it runs so much worse for so little gain. Same deal with STO - the graphics don't warrant the grunt needed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The reason old costume pieces are still in the game and still as they are is because players have expressly and unambiguously demanded that they stay in the game. Check out the "all things art" thread and you'll notice that there's no consensus on updating and/or removing old bits. In fact, plenty of people (myself among them) are even now requesting non-reflective versions of the new reflective costume pieces, not because reflections look bad, but because non-reflective items sometimes mesh better with older designs.|
Originally Posted by PureAmerican
hey that costume piece is still around and still looks the same
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City of Heroes is what it is. To expect a brand new game is unreasonable not just because of the technical difficulties involved and the cost of it all, but because a lot of people who play right now want THIS game, not a brand new one.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I have to disagree. People like aspects of this game; no loot, no open PvP, easy learning curve, etc., but there are a lot of things in this game that people would like to have, but can only be had in a new game (or engine). Lets admit it, the game-play is repetative, and the mission objectives are the same thing dressed in different cloths. There are a lot of things are improving, but really this game is still all about the costumes and slowly, but surely, the CC isn't going to be enough to keep the lights on.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The reason old costume pieces are still in the game and still as they are is because players have expressly and unambiguously demanded that they stay in the game. Check out the "all things art" thread and you'll notice that there's no consensus on updating and/or removing old bits. In fact, plenty of people (myself among them) are even now requesting non-reflective versions of the new reflective costume pieces, not because reflections look bad, but because non-reflective items sometimes mesh better with older designs.
City of Heroes is what it is. To expect a brand new game is unreasonable not just because of the technical difficulties involved and the cost of it all, but because a lot of people who play right now want THIS game, not a brand new one. |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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This comes up a lot, but "a new game" is not going to have even half the stuff the old game had, for the simple fact that the old game had six years to amass all that stuff. If you went out now and out and out REMOVED all old, outdated costume pieces until you could peace-meal better ones in, people would riot. I guarantee it.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I have to disagree. People like aspects of this game; no loot, no open PvP, easy learning curve, etc., but there are a lot of things in this game that people would like to have, but can only be had in a new game (or engine). Lets admit it, the game-play is repetative, and the mission objectives are the same thing dressed in different cloths. There are a lot of things are improving, but really this game is still all about the costumes and slowly, but surely, the CC isn't going to be enough to keep the lights on.
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Hell, look at something as simple as the fix for the old skirts, or the fix for the thigh-high boots. Or even now, the improvement to some metallic textures. They were all better in an objective sense, but people still requested that they be allowed to use the old pieces. You'd think people would be ecstatic over having something new, but many are often most concerned with losing access to what they already had. This is the reasons they've been trying to leave old pieces in as much as they could.
Basically, people put too much faith in what is going to end up being a brand new game. There is simply no way to make one that has EVERYTHING City of Heroes currently has and more. Champions Online fell FAR short of that, and it's been doing mostly just catching up ever since it launched. Sure, it has a number of new, often-requested features, but its stock of practically everything is tiny. It's getting bigger, obviously, but it has more time yet to catch up. I don't know about you, but I'd be very hesitant to jump into a City of Heroes 2 that lacked half the costume sets and a third of the zones and missions.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Exactly. I don't know what went into the creation of Champions Online, but that game's graphics offend my senses. I'm not sure if it's bad quality or ****** artwork, but if there's one central reason why I hate the game, that would be it. Like World of Warcraft, I just can't stand to look at it. Forget City of Heroes. I would pick Oni over that, and that's saying something.
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I don't get it when people make statements like that. I think the graphics in CO are awesome, and it runs better on my old pc than CoX does as it is right now. I'm not sure I'll be able to play GR, CoV and the addition of Ultra Mode already lag me.
I threw some pics up on a Facebook page, those really offend your senses? How so?
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I don't think it'll be made illegal to play both |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't know about you, but I'd be very hesitant to jump into a City of Heroes 2 that lacked half the costume sets and a third of the zones and missions.
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Like don't NCSoft still run Guild Wars 1 and 2 and Lineage 1 and 2 together?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yeah, they very much do. I HATE the characters in Champions Online. Any pic that has characters in it bugs me. A lot. Their settings aren't too bad, but then again, nothing too good. It's the characters themselves that really, really bug me. I hate how they cartoony art style they've chosen. I hate the horribly overbright primary colours. I hate THAT FACE! I've been over their character creator dozens upon dozens of times and I can count the pieces I liked on the fingers of one hand. I HATE HATE HATE their chosen art style.|
Originally Posted by SuperTrial
I threw some pics up on a Facebook page, those really offend your senses? How so?
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It's not even down to the graphics or the engine, really, so that reflective ball in the display case does little for me. It's the STYLE they've chosen which kills me. Like I said, for the same reason I hate World of Warcraft's graphics while plenty of people keep insisting they're great. I just can't stand that style.
As far as Champions running better, it simply doesn't. Not on any machine I've tried. I've not been able to run it without stuttering me to hell and back, and I can't play like that. I can run City of Heroes just fine and maintain 60 FPS in almost all places, the few FPS holes notwithstanding. Champions Online I can't get more than 30 ANYWHERE. None of the times I've tried.
And then there are the animations. GOD I hate those animations. On almost every single power, every single effect. I don't know if they've changed Martial Arts since I tried it, but the auto-attack I saw simply offended my intelligence. I hate how you carry things over your head like they're made of hollow plastic. I hate all the AWFUL animations while running, I hate the way you travel, I hate the stupid, unresponsive, laggy controls that make me feel like I'm swinging my fists at the air and my enemies get hurt whenever they get around to it.
Up until I get out of character creation, I can stand Champions Online. I don't LIKE it, as I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for items to make a costume anything less than silly, but I've managed to do that a few times without giving up TOO much concept. But as soon as I set foot into the actual game, it just hurts. Seriously. Last time I tried the game as a favour on a free trial a friend of mine gave me, and the whole time I was fighting an overbearing feeling of "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" There is NOTHING in this game that I like, with the possible exception of eye customization.
Seriously, the Champions Online engine may or may not be good, but I want to hang their artists.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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What Sam said.
The CO engine has been criticised in a lot of places simply because it gobbles up far too much power for what it does, and has inconsistent performance compared to a lot of games out there; similar deal with Star Trek Online. Framerates are jumpy and can be all over the place, and in same cases has seen to GPUs breaking down if not outright melting.
Speaking from personal experience I get very distinct pauses whenever I play(ed) either game every few seconds, regardless of the options I changed or the drivers I used, nor was I the only one suffering this problem. Given my rig can knock boots with the likes of the Unreal 3 engine it's a very frustrating issue.
Well that and the ******* ugly style. Improved models are all very well and good, but the style of CO is just...eh. Everything seems so gormless and childish even if there are higher polygon counts.
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No no no - innocent bystanders. There's a difference. Maybe.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
"Kill too many civilians?" Dang! What happened to that?
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Originally Posted by SuperTrial
I don't get it when people make statements like that. I think the graphics in CO are awesome, and it runs better on my old pc than CoX does as it is right now. I'm not sure I'll be able to play GR, CoV and the addition of Ultra Mode already lag me.
I threw some pics up on a Facebook page, those really offend your senses? How so? |
Also, interestingly enough, whatever happened to CoX has made my machine run basically the same as before - but with better graphics. I don't know if it's the fact that I finally updated my drivers, or what, but CoX is better than before for me.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
fix for the thigh-high boots... I'd be very hesitant to jump into a City of Heroes 2 that lacked half the costume sets and a third of the zones and missions.
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I agree with Samuel, CO's chosen art style is hideous.
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Originally Posted by SuperTrial
I don't get it when people make statements like that. I think the graphics in CO are awesome, and it runs better on my old pc than CoX does as it is right now. I'm not sure I'll be able to play GR, CoV and the addition of Ultra Mode already lag me.
I threw some pics up on a Facebook page, those really offend your senses? How so? |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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That's really what gets under my skin. I can deal with the engine, and for what it is, it looks like it's capable of some pretty amazing graphics. But as I've said many times, the world's best graphics don't mean crap unless you have a talented artist to make use of them, and I don't know who they hired to do the Champions artwork, but he doesn't seem to have had a soul. Or talent. Skill, maybe, but not talent. The game is just... Lifeless. There's lots of garish, loud colour everywhere, but nothing that inspires me to say "Wow! I want to be like that!"
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
Well that and the ******* ugly style. Improved models are all very well and good, but the style of CO is just...eh. Everything seems so gormless and childish even if there are higher polygon counts.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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CoH's engine is horribly inefficient though. It asks a lot of your PC for the quality it delivers.
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
CO has a newer engine, yet somehow it runs so much worse for so little gain. Same deal with STO - the graphics don't warrant the grunt needed.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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OMG! This is excactly how I feel about CO. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, they very much do. I HATE the characters in Champions Online. Any pic that has characters in it bugs me. A lot. Their settings aren't too bad, but then again, nothing too good. It's the characters themselves that really, really bug me. I hate how they cartoony art style they've chosen. I hate the horribly overbright primary colours. I hate THAT FACE! I've been over their character creator dozens upon dozens of times and I can count the pieces I liked on the fingers of one hand. I HATE HATE HATE their chosen art style.
It's not even down to the graphics or the engine, really, so that reflective ball in the display case does little for me. It's the STYLE they've chosen which kills me. Like I said, for the same reason I hate World of Warcraft's graphics while plenty of people keep insisting they're great. I just can't stand that style. As far as Champions running better, it simply doesn't. Not on any machine I've tried. I've not been able to run it without stuttering me to hell and back, and I can't play like that. I can run City of Heroes just fine and maintain 60 FPS in almost all places, the few FPS holes notwithstanding. Champions Online I can't get more than 30 ANYWHERE. None of the times I've tried. And then there are the animations. GOD I hate those animations. On almost every single power, every single effect. I don't know if they've changed Martial Arts since I tried it, but the auto-attack I saw simply offended my intelligence. I hate how you carry things over your head like they're made of hollow plastic. I hate all the AWFUL animations while running, I hate the way you travel, I hate the stupid, unresponsive, laggy controls that make me feel like I'm swinging my fists at the air and my enemies get hurt whenever they get around to it. Up until I get out of character creation, I can stand Champions Online. I don't LIKE it, as I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for items to make a costume anything less than silly, but I've managed to do that a few times without giving up TOO much concept. But as soon as I set foot into the actual game, it just hurts. Seriously. Last time I tried the game as a favour on a free trial a friend of mine gave me, and the whole time I was fighting an overbearing feeling of "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" There is NOTHING in this game that I like, with the possible exception of eye customization. Seriously, the Champions Online engine may or may not be good, but I want to hang their artists. |
And I bought a lifetime
Anyway... haven't been there in 3 months...
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Exactly.
Style can make a lot more impact with me than straight out detail. To me the likes of Metro 2033 (oppressive, rusty, very muted colour scheme), Darksiders (bold and chunky characters with vibrant colour schemes) and so on will sticks with me for a lot longer than, say, Crysis or Gears of War - the latter two are undeniably more advanced and powerful with their graphics but don't endear me as much as their less technically tricky counterparts do.
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It's also ten years old, compared to Champions Online which was meant to have had the benefit of experience, hindsight and a greater budget. Even the low end options are blighted with horrific performance issues.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
CoH's engine is horribly inefficient though. It asks a lot of your PC for the quality it delivers.
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That was kind of the point |
Originally Posted by Felderburg
That was no fix!
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| Anyways, I'm sure that a CoH 2 would not be lacking for costume parts, at all. I also note that you only address costumes in the reply I quoted, when it seemed to me that the person you quoted was saying that without a new engine, CoX can't have different sorts of mission objectives (although the new arcs with I17 show that you can do some pretty nice stuff with what is there) or things like player on player interaction, etc. |
Look at, for instance, UT2004 vs UT3. UT3 has a MUCH stronger engine that produces far superior graphics at a cost not too much higher than the old game, and it has more game mode support, too. At the same time, it misses a few weapons, it skimps on a few vehicles, it has like five maps, it lacks Assault altogether and it has almost NONE of the mods that came with the old games, including the Developer's Choice pack. It's like UT2004 Lite. I love the engine, I really do, but when UT3 Launched, UT2004 was still a FAR superior game, and not just because I've written a guide for it.
Do you honestly feel that a City of Heroes 2 will have every zone, every location, every contact, every power, every AT, every mission, every arc, every souvenir, badge, achievement and so forth? Because if it does AND has more stuff, then obviously I'm going to swap over to it in a heartbeat. But do you seriously believe that's even possible?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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6 years after it launches, yes |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Do you honestly feel that a City of Heroes 2 will have every zone, every location, every contact, every power, every AT, every mission, every arc, every souvenir, badge, achievement and so forth? Because if it does AND has more stuff, then obviously I'm going to swap over to it in a heartbeat. But do you seriously believe that's even possible?
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Obvioulsy not the exact same content - but a similar amount
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That's a problem. I can't afford two MMOs, and if a new one offers me a "similar amount" of content for a version of "similar" that I foresee as not being satisfactory, I will be unmotivated to drop this one and pick up that one. And herein lies the financial problem - this puts Paragon Studios in competition WITH THEMSELVES. They'll need people to support their new game, and a LOT of those people are going to have to come from their old game, which isn't going to happen unless their new game supports most everything the old one does. And even then, how many are going to abandon their characters and start over?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Obvioulsy not the exact same content - but a similar amount
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The only other option is to just stop development for City of Heroes and "nudge" current players to move onto City of Heroes 2. And that's just such a dick move that I don't foresee ANY gaming studio pulling, let alone one as cool as Paragon Studios.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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What about the easier way...
Give COH 2 as an upgrade to subscribers
Export the complete data of youre toons to the new engine
It is like installing Going rogue or City of Villains from CD/DVD then
This is an MMO with a monthly sub! There is no real need to run two next to each other unless youre afraid of loosing subs because of new specs.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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I guess. One of the problems a City of Heroes 2 would need to solve, however, are the various holes in the many combat mechanics we employ here, so I have a sneaking suspicion that, even IF a sequel used similar powers, it wouldn't use the same, or indeed even a similar character build system. Of course, it might, but I don't count on it.|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
What about the easier way...
Give COH 2 as an upgrade to subscribers Export the complete data of youre toons to the new engine It is like installing Going rogue or City of Villains from CD/DVD then This is an MMO with a monthly sub! There is no real need to run two next to each other unless youre afraid of loosing subs because of new specs. |
Of course, IF IT DID, then yeah, I'd play it. I'd buy it, I'd play it and probably move over to it full time sooner or later. I'm not sure how feasible that would be, however.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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lol
in the article they refer to COH as a "PC RPG" I guess the acronym "MMORPG" wasn't concieved yet. Another funny thing is the article says the game would be released July 2001.
I want my 9 year vet reward for buying that magazine !