Defender Vs. Corruptor


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Posted

Ok, so i just rolled a Dark/Dark fender and cor, and i want to know which is better. I know that Fenders get the buffs to the secondary effects, and they just recently got a damage boost, but is the damage output better than cors now?
help!



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke24 View Post
Ok, so i just rolled a Dark/Dark fender and cor, and i want to know which is better. I know that Fenders get the buffs to the secondary effects, and they just recently got a damage boost, but is the damage output better than cors now?
help!
If you want the damage with out the hassle of differing end reduction requirements whether teamed or solo go corr.

If you want higher buffs on a team go defender.

I personally won't roll a new defender ever again once GR goes live except in the cases of a power set that is unavailable to corrs.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke24 View Post
Ok, so i just rolled a Dark/Dark fender and cor, and i want to know which is better. I know that Fenders get the buffs to the secondary effects, and they just recently got a damage boost, but is the damage output better than cors now?
help!
Defenders do not output more damage than Corruptors after the changes.

Based on numbers that others have posted, Corruptors deal approx 15% more base damage and another 15%+ for scourge (averaged over time). So they have 30%+ more damage with 30% less effective buffs than Defenders. This is balanced.

Defenders now get a 30% damage buff while solo, which under some limited circumstances could push them to be equal in damage WHILE SOLO. This all disappears on a team of 4 or more and the Defender trades his damage dealing ability for an Endurance savings Inherent.

Overall, Corruptors will still have a damage edge, However Newbie Defenders and Solo Defenders will have a noticeable boost in damage.

I dont play Corruptors, so my opinion is fairly biased towards Defenders, however I would still be tempted to play Corruptors simply because they are more capable of dealing damage to "Hard Targets" than Defenders, and will probably stay that way.


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Posted

Defenders real advantage is not in their inherit, but in their buff values. A defender can and will out damage a Corr if they get a hold of some decent +dam (aka Fulcrum Shift).

Corrupters primary advantage is that, against targets that actually matter, they will get their fancy SCOURGE bonus.

If it weren't for Scorpion Shield, and my unhealthy obsession with stacking defense, I would probably favor defenders almost always.


 

Posted

oh, ok thanks, im gonna stick with my Cor then, thank you so much i didnt know what to do haha


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
Defenders real advantage is not in their inherit, but in their buff values. A defender can and will out damage a Corr if they get a hold of some decent +dam (aka Fulcrum Shift).

Corrupters primary advantage is that, against targets that actually matter, they will get their fancy SCOURGE bonus.

If it weren't for Scorpion Shield, and my unhealthy obsession with stacking defense, I would probably favor defenders almost always.
But doesnt ALL toons benefit from FS? And if corrs put out more, then got FS also, then theyd still put out more. I dont understand why FS is mentioned??


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
But doesnt ALL toons benefit from FS? And if corrs put out more, then got FS also, then theyd still put out more. I dont understand why FS is mentioned??
I think he means the much stronger damage buffs that defs have from powers like FS, aim, souldrain. It can very quickly close the damage gap. FS is maybe not the best case though because it is pretty easy to cap your damage with it at which point the corr is significantly ahead of the def due to having a much higher ceiling.


 

Posted

But don't Defenders have a lower damage cap than Corruptors?


EDIT: Nevermind, I see that's already been addressed.


 

Posted

This is just a "gut feeling" kinda observation but having played a lot of defenders and corruptors, I can say that I miss the damage when I play defenders but I never notice the lower strength buffs on corruptors. Corruptor buffs are more than strong enough, they are awesome force multipliers while not being limited to dealing laughable damage in most cases.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
But doesnt ALL toons benefit from FS? And if corrs put out more, then got FS also, then theyd still put out more. I dont understand why FS is mentioned??
It was the quickest example that came to my head that was also the most dramatic damage enhancement I could think of.

Listen to Frosticus though, he's smart.

Point is that defenders biggest advantage is their buff multiplier, not their inherent.


 

Posted

Defender numbers carry over to pools as well. Just another thing to consider. Seeing as how you're going dark/dark, though, both of those will provide enough -tohit to floor normal enemies after a few powers anyway. If your primary focus is damage the corr is the best choice. That said, if you're more interested in Dark Miasma rather than Dark Blast, you can go defender since they have DM in their primary so those powers come a lot sooner. With Dark Blast your best powers are the ST blasts and the two cones, and those all come by level 20 on a defender.


 

Posted

On the test thread, last I knew...solo wise...Defenders = more damage on enemies generally, with Corrs pulling ahead when scourge actually made a difference (ie...harder targets).

Defenders also have the better defense numbers. Making them more survivable.

That said...Corrs will stay the same, while Defenders damage will lower as soon as they team, untill they smooth out at 4 teamates.

Sooo...if that's still the case, it comes down to:

1) Where you want to start. RI or Paragon.

2) If that doesnt matter, which do you prefere? Blast Primary or Buff/Debuff Primary?

3) When teaming your buffs are great no matter which way you go...sooo...maybe you want to always have the top damage you can put out? Corruptor.

4) Or maybe you just want a little more survivability. Defender.

You can't go wrong with either one. So I'd base it off which you want as a primary, and where you want to start (red or blue side).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post

Defenders also have the better defense numbers. Making them more survivable.
I might challenge this. While Defenders can buff their defense values a wee bit higher than Corr, I think only Force Fields has a big enough number to make a very noticeable effect. Meanwhile Corrupters have access to the Epic Power Pool power called Scorpion Shield, which grants a rather large defense bonus to S/L that I could not get defenders to emulate.

Unless you meant debuffs as well, which isn't something I've fully calculated for.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
I might challenge this. While Defenders can buff their defense values a wee bit higher than Corr, I think only Force Fields has a big enough number to make a very noticeable effect. Meanwhile Corrupters have access to the Epic Power Pool power called Scorpion Shield, which grants a rather large defense bonus to S/L that I could not get defenders to emulate.

Unless you meant debuffs as well, which isn't something I've fully calculated for.
Ok, yes...you're right. Corrs can get the higher S/L defense because of Mace Shield (though I figure Defenders will get access to that as well when they can pick up PPPs in GR).

However. Not all sets are better off going with S/L Defense. For instance, I don't think it's better to go for S/L defense on my Dark Miasma user. Better to go with the Positional Defense (which with any of the same pairing, you'll have better numbers on the Defender).

Also, Mace Mastery doesn't fit all concepts.

...[deleted rant about people picking numbers over concepts here]...

And S/L defense can be tougher on the Blast sets getting. I mean really, you see some of those builds right? let's slot out boxing/brawl/kick/epic melee power to get that higher S/L defense...

Where as I can slot out the powers I plan to use, on my Dark/Sonic Defender and get the positional defenses easier.


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Posted

Ahh yes. Being the dirty min/maxer that I am, I often have to make 'alterations' to my concept to fit in what I need to make a power work. I consider it an interesting mental exercise, at any rate.

A mace is hard to fit, however. Thankfully we can just take the Scorpion Shield and gtfo of the rest of the set.


 

Posted

IMO, and it's only IMO, villian AT's are just better for my playstyle then hero AT's. IMO they are just better balanced.

I like Brutes over scrappers, and tanks. Brutes can be tough enought to tank, and do great damage. A sort of blended Scrapper/tanker hybride.

I prefur Coruptors to Defenders, and blasters. For the same reason. Good damage and good team support. They have 2 roles they can fill at one time, and do both well.

And i LOVE the novality of Stalker and MM's. They are so different.

Villian EAT's are better IMO, though i don't really like playing either EAT very much really.

Only AT in villians i'm not all that found of are domonaters. I prefure the controller.

But i play heros more often, cause i like being the hero of the story, not the villian.

Needless to say, I'm looking very forward to GR.

As for the OP. IMO, the Corr is a better choice. But again, it's all IMO.


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Posted

I'm a Corruptor fan but I have to admit the latest change to the Defender inherent and the possibilities offered by GR patron pool switching are very tempting. You end up with a toon that automatically shifts between solo and team-friendly without having to swap builds. Less damage on teams, sure, but this is also when you least need it. Compare the two against each other and the damage may be noticeable but compare each against the team damage output. Is the difference noticeable on a team?

The other point is that it is far easier to compensate for damage in a build than it is for buff/debuff values. I can't IO my way to a better Enervating Field for my Corruptor but I can always add more damage bonus. Heck, sacrifice some endurance for it if you can, solo or teamed their inherent grants them increased DPE.

Long story short: I think I agree that they may now be so close the only good reason for picking one over the other once GR arrives could well be just powerset availability. That or the availability of certain powers while exemplared. Defenders get their buffs sooner. Corruptors their blasts.


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Posted

It´s a valid question.
As I began to tripplebox, my main question was where to find the best synergy for my trio. It boiled down to having the best buffs/debuffs avaible. A single force-defender provides enough defense for the rest of the team for near softcapping. A single sonic-defender provides enough resists for the rest of the team. Try it redside.
Since I fell in love with - res debuffs and maximizing that, I could theoretically provide a -300% res debuff with my tripple defenderteam. That would be hard to get with a tripple of corruptors. I would rather have a defender sonicblast on team than a corruptors. Since he is a better forcemultiplier. For soloing i would stick to Corrs-no question.

So the question is not, which is better, but which task do you want to be done. I love the Buff/Debuff values of defenders much more than raw damagevalues. SO I go defender. My new trios are now always defenders.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
Point is that defenders biggest advantage is their buff multiplier, not their inherent.
Defenders vs Corruptors is sort of a Tortoise vs Hare comparison. Corruptors get the greater damage to start with, and get a high burst damage at the end of the fight with their Inherent. However, power per power Defenders get higher values for their buffs and debuffs. Thus, IF the Defender can buff his damage or debuff his foe's Resistance to the damage, his damage overtakes the Corruptor's as the buff/debuffs build up and stack.

I'd also like to add that while the Defender gets the better numbers for Defense, Resistance, and Damage/To Hit debuffs, the Corruptor not only gets Scorpion Shield, but higher Hit Points as well. So again, the Corruptor has the advantage in the absense of buffs, but once the Defender starts applying them, he closes the gap to be closer to equal.

The solo bonus helps the Defender equalize his stats when he doesn't have a lot of teammates to help him, or lots of foes to maximize his buffs. It also really helps those Defenders that don't have a damage boosting power to start with. Even so, the numbers seem to show that there's really not that much difference. Defenders just tend to take a little longer to get to the maximum damage, and tend to be more slow and consistent over time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
Ahh yes. Being the dirty min/maxer that I am, I often have to make 'alterations' to my concept to fit in what I need to make a power work. I consider it an interesting mental exercise, at any rate.

A mace is hard to fit, however. Thankfully we can just take the Scorpion Shield and gtfo of the rest of the set.
This is true. Mace Mastery is an easy one to avoid the Mace part on

And really it comes more to me seeing /Arctic Mastery on blasters more than anything. But there's no denying how great it can be on a blaster...Defense, a heal and hibernate.

It would probably bother me less if people took some effort into figuring a way for the set to fit their concept.

Though, I find it more of a mental excersice to pick the concept powers, and THEN min/max the build through IOs.

Though that's not true min/maxing.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
It would probably bother me less if people took some effort into figuring a way for the set to fit their concept.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know who has / hasn't put some thought into their epic/patron choices? The only way you can really judge if someone has justified it in game is by reading their bio... if they filled it in. I know I'm terrible at writing bios for my in game characters, but that doesn't mean I haven't thought about their choices.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
Just out of curiosity, how do you know who has / hasn't put some thought into their epic/patron choices? The only way you can really judge if someone has justified it in game is by reading their bio... if they filled it in. I know I'm terrible at writing bios for my in game characters, but that doesn't mean I haven't thought about their choices.
Easy. I ask. I've found alot don't.

I don't get all "omg you suck" about it or anything. And like was said (and I agree with), the Mace Mastery Shield is pretty easy to fit into concepts, as it really isn't much of anything.

/Arctic Mastery becomes a little harder.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Easy. I ask.
Ahh, good 'ole Occams' razor. Yep, that'd do the trick, alright.

I'm honestly not that surprised that not all people have concepts for their epic/patron powers. Likewise, it doesn't bother me too much when others have mismatched powers / concepts. The only time things like that bug me is when it happens to my characters.

(It's also why some of my characters haven't been played / respecced in ages. I feel like the powers I could/should respec out of for more potential are pivitol to their concept. For example, my BS/Regen is still using SOs/HOs, no MoG, but 3 powers from the Dark Epic and Assault/Tactics. I could make her a lot stronger, but I don't want to make the sacrifices necessary to do so. So she's been benched... that and I'm not that great at playing with the new Regen.)


(Unrelated tangent: While looking up the correct spelling for Occam's razor, I found Newton's Flaming Laser Sword. I'm now snickering like an idiot at work.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
This is just a "gut feeling" kinda observation but having played a lot of defenders and corruptors, I can say that I miss the damage when I play defenders but I never notice the lower strength buffs on corruptors. Corruptor buffs are more than strong enough, they are awesome force multipliers while not being limited to dealing laughable damage in most cases.
I got the same gut feeling. If GR comes out i'll never roll a defender again. And I only have one not deleted defender left at the moment I'll take the higher base damage, over superior (de)buff values anytime.
The 2 AT's are really well balanced against each other imo. It all comes down to personal preference.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
Ahh, good 'ole Occams' razor. Yep, that'd do the trick, alright.

I'm honestly not that surprised that not all people have concepts for their epic/patron powers. Likewise, it doesn't bother me too much when others have mismatched powers / concepts. The only time things like that bug me is when it happens to my characters.

(It's also why some of my characters haven't been played / respecced in ages. I feel like the powers I could/should respec out of for more potential are pivitol to their concept. For example, my BS/Regen is still using SOs/HOs, no MoG, but 3 powers from the Dark Epic and Assault/Tactics. I could make her a lot stronger, but I don't want to make the sacrifices necessary to do so. So she's been benched... that and I'm not that great at playing with the new Regen.)


(Unrelated tangent: While looking up the correct spelling for Occam's razor, I found Newton's Flaming Laser Sword. I'm now snickering like an idiot at work.)
True. this is why my DP/MM doesn't get played. I feel only /Arctic Mastery works well with Blasters for survivability (again...it's imo and based solely on my playstyle). Why I don't play her. :/


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