(Villains only) How evil do YOU want to be, really?
By
Anti_Product,
Posted on: 2010-04-30 24:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It doesn't surprise me. Some folks have a hard time seperating "Players who play Villains (some or all the time)" with "Villains".
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Well, I must say I didn't actually expect you to be OK with a game insulting players.
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Yeah, that's an ever-present problem on these boards, and I'd lie if I said there haven't been a bunch of ******** who lend some credence to that supposition, but overall yes, one has to make a distinction between the player, who is generally a decent person, and the villain character for whom the story is written.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
It doesn't surprise me. Some folks have a hard time seperating "Players who play Villains (some or all the time)" with "Villains".
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If you go from Villain to Rogue, and get access to Paragon City, doing evil there will tip you back to being a full villain, and you'd be locked out of the blue side until you did enough good deeds to become a Rogue again |
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I can't wait to go rogue and make Paragon a better place... for evil.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Someone took my "Pro-Loyalist" posts as proof that I am actually a facist. Boy, was that an awkward cord to untangle.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, that's an ever-present problem on these boards, and I'd lie if I said there haven't been a bunch of ******** who lend some credence to that supposition, but overall yes, one has to make a distinction between the player, who is generally a decent person, and the villain character for whom the story is written.
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Essentially, if you want to be treated decently by the game, you need to leave Villainy behind. Thus, City of Villains was a complete waste of time, effort and money and should be shut down.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you go from Villain to Rogue, and get access to Paragon City, doing evil there will tip you back to being a full villain, and you'd be locked out of the blue side until you did enough good deeds to become a Rogue again
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That about sum it up?
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Let me see if I can summon up my inner Golden Girl:
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Yup |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Essentially, if you want to be treated decently by the game, you need to leave Villainy behind. Thus, City of Villains was a complete waste of time, effort and money and should be shut down.
That about sum it up? |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No - I think it's cool players can be villains as well as heroes - but they can't really expect the same treatment from the game, because the midnset of villains means their chosen path is going to be rougher than the heroic path.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Essentially, if you want to be treated decently by the game, you need to leave Villainy behind. Thus, City of Villains was a complete waste of time, effort and money and should be shut down.
That about sum it up? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There's a difference between newspapers running smear campaigns and our king saying "You with the fat ankles! I'm sending you on a mission... to fetch... my coffee!"|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No - I think it's cool players can be villains as well as heroes - but they can't really expect the same treatment from the game, because the midnset of villains means their chosen path is going to be rougher than the heroic path.
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Which is oft where we are now. Less Wormtongue, more Saruman.
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Essentially; "Don't expect to be anything more than a purse snatcher, because you as a player Villain have no power, and can't even stand up to a level 1 minion."|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No - I think it's cool players can be villains as well as heroes - but they can't really expect the same treatment from the game, because the midnset of villains means their chosen path is going to be rougher than the heroic path.
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No dice. We've not been asking to be revered like Heroes, but feared as someoen of the power we display in game. Just like Heroes, there's no NPC that can stand up to us. Yet none of them consider us more threatening than the dead ficus.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Let us revise the wrongness, then: if you want to be treated decently by the game, you need to leave Villainy behind. Villain content exists only as an object lesson that no matter how powerful you are and how willing you have demonstrated yourself to be to apply that power to anyone who stands in your way, you still should not expect respect from anyone - unless you're a hero, in which case everyone should be nice to you. Not that it matters because heroes are so good that they'd do the right thing even if treated like dirt.
Yes, that is a very nice and shiny piece of WRONG. Let's just hold this shiny WRONG up to the light a moment. See how it glimmers with falsehood? Now, let's put it in the cabinet and never think of it again.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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I'm pretty sure CoV lets you progress past the purse snatching phase of villainy |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Essentially; "Don't expect to be anything more than a purse snatcher, because you as a player Villain have no power, and can't even stand up to a level 1 minion."
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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They thought that it could not be done.| "It's never been done before!" sounds more like a reason to try it than to avoid trying it. |
Some even said they knew it.
BUT HE DARED TO ATTEMPT WHAT THEY SAID COULD NOT BE DONE...
...AND HE COULDN'T BLOODY DO IT!
-- Benny Hill
As for the rest (TL;DR), the simple fact is that this is not a world-building game, nor can it be made into one. That's the kind of decision you have to make at the start. This means no, you can't be Dr. Doom, or even Dr. Doom Lite. You are not going to take over the world, or any appreciable part of it. Neither, on the heroic side, are you going to put an end to all villainy, user in a new golden age, etc., and your Reed Richards knockoff is going to be just as useless as the original.
Asking that we not have to deal with Contacts like Darla Mavis, never mind Hard Case, is one thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that this game is predicated on the players performing tasks at the behest of NPCs. Either limit your character conceptions accordingly, which frankly is not all that hard, or accept that this game doesn't deliver what you want and move on.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
So... Anyway... The answer is: The average should be 5, but it should go up to 11
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Isn't Westin Phipps at 12? |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So... Anyway... The answer is: The average should be 5, but it should go up to 11
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Stop having fun, guys. The new arcs don't actually deliver. It isn't possible to feel like you're in charge when you're taking missions from contacts, no matter what you may have thought at the time. Bases can't be expanded, dialogue can't be rewritten, new systems can't be implemented. Party's over.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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No, not really.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm pretty sure CoV lets you progress past the purse snatching phase of villainy
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Lemme go back to your Scrubs reference from a few pages back. You mentioned thinking that Villains were JD to Recluse's Dr. Cox. To make it more accurate, let's imagine that there's someone that JD treats exactly like Dr. Cox treats him. Now let's further imagine that this person treats someone else similarly. We'll call that person at the bottom there Paul Chalmers, or PC for short. Now PX actually has the medical knowledge, credentials and expertise to outshine Dr. Cox, and in fact does so on a regular basis. And yet they still get crapped on by people who get crapped on. And why?
Well, that's a question we PCs have been trying to answer for a while now.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Content wise, I think you're probably going to have to look for respect in the new stuff - revamps of smaller things like some of the older enemy models has been said to be a major bit of work by the devs, so the chances of them going through the entire red side game and revamping contacts and missions to give you more respect seems pretty small right now.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Stop having fun, guys. The new arcs don't actually deliver. It isn't possible to feel like you're in charge when you're taking missions from contacts, no matter what you may have thought at the time. Bases can't be expanded, dialogue can't be rewritten, new systems can't be implemented. Party's over.
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Something like the Incarnate System could invovle you being sent by Recluse to investigate whatever it is that's going to be the source of it, and then double crossing him to get the power for yourself, making you an incarnate, and so you'd then be his equal in power.
Or you could be sent to Praetoria to investigate the new dimension because Recluse trusts you as an equal, and thinks only someone with your power would be capabale of the mission.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
To be honest, the new arcs really aren't anything special. They boil down just like any other to 'go here, kill this, click that'. And yet the new Villain arc is widely considered the best thing ever done in the game. Why? If I were to guess it's because D-Mac actually sees your character as a power and a real threat in the isles. He actually treats the character with respect, dignity, and decency. If it can be done here, why can't it be done anywhere else?
EDIT: Removed redundancy.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Words frequently associated with villains |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
He actually treats the character with respect, dignity, decency and respect.
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Also, from what I've heard, he's a little less big on the dignity, decency and respect if you're not male - like he actually tries hititng on you
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Until GR introduces Praetoria where it isn't.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Asking that we not have to deal with Contacts like Darla Mavis, never mind Hard Case, is one thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that this game is predicated on the players performing tasks at the behest of NPCs. Either limit your character conceptions accordingly, which frankly is not all that hard, or accept that this game doesn't deliver what you want and move on.
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GR has player choice in arcs, and the ability to be proactive. Either accept that, or move on.
Again, what we are asking for is THERE NOW. The "it can't be done" crowd has already been beaten at this debate.
Unfortunately a forum purge deleted my topic where I sggested Storm MMs and got flamed for such a ridiculous idea, or I would probably sig it with the way people around here get hostile to suggestions.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Or, more in line with the current mode of thinking, he's going to order you to Praetoria, because he doesn't expect you to survive and would rather save his Wolf Spiders for something important.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something like the Incarnate System could invovle you being sent by Recluse to investigate whatever it is that's going to be the source of it, and then double crossing him to get the power for yourself, making you an incarnate, and so you'd then be his equal in power.
Or you could be sent to Praetoria to investigate the new dimension because Recluse trusts you as an equal, and thinks only someone with your power would be capabale of the mission. |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
Villains who are a threat usually get this treatment from those weaker than themselves. Minions of Thugs are the ones that usually don't.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Words frequently associated with villains
Also, from what I've heard, he's a little less big on the dignity, decency and respect if you're not male - like he actually tries hitting on you |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
I think you're maybe expecting a little more from GR than you're actually going to get |
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Until GR introduces Praetoria where it isn't.
GR has player choice in arcs, and the ability to be proactive. Either accept that, or move on. |
If the devs don't feel that revamping a single zone like Dark Astroia is a good use of resources, then the chances of them going through the entire content of CoV and rebuilding it are close to zero - as in minus 5 or so
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Actually, Westin Phipps is, like, a 4 or 3. He's is just so much more of a relatable evil that it drives home the point more.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Isn't Westin Phipps at 12?
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Phipps would aspire to break a woman's will until she becomes a prostitute. Daleks would aspire to destroy all life in the universe. One is clearly more evil than the other, but the other one is something we can imagine.
Random tangent. Or rather, random rerailing.
I can't wait to go rogue and make Paragon a better place... for evil.
The reason why you can't actually take over the Rogue Isles is the reason why you can't actually defeat the Malta Group. The reason why you can't try to take over the Rogue Isles is because the developers didn't think we would want to, which was not very clever of them.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs