Incredible Cosmic Power... Itty-bitty living space.
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2010-04-27 10:18 in Roleplaying
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Not sure about said group, but do you have any idea how long 48 hours can take to pass in a forum RP thread? I've been in threads where it took us months to a year for a single day to pass - and that was the average. <_<
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
The group I usually RP with would not be amused if I went along with that for my character. Thanks to the way she's developed in recen't months, no powers = dies within about 48 hours, and they don't like it when I get a chance to angst her up!
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"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
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Ellie can angst up in 48 seconds!
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Originally Posted by DeviousMe
Not sure about said group, but do you have any idea how long 48 hours can take to pass in a forum RP thread? I've been in threads where it took us months to a year for a single day to pass - and that was the average. <_<
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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
It's also an issue that if said 48 hours take that long to pass in a forum thread, yet IC said 48 hours happen say... this weekend, it leads to problems and conrdictions for on server RP.
Something as powerfull that can take away these powers will be able to manipulate time and space itself... So plot wise there will be no reason to not join in.. Unless you dont want ofcourse.
It is still a free world 
Even the virtual one...
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Oh, you misunderstand me. I kinda find myself intrigued by the idea, and would add a kind of "save the cheerleader" (she's not a cheerleader) aspect to the plot too!|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
Something as powerfull that can take away these powers will be able to manipulate time and space itself... So plot wise there will be no reason to not join in.. Unless you dont want ofcourse.
It is still a free world Even the virtual one... |
But I'm not sure the grief I'd get from my friends would be worth it, AND she's my main live RP character too.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I more or less agree with everything Fea said after this. (And am sorry I missed the beginning of this thread!) |
Originally Posted by _Fea_
In my opinion, I think the game mechanics should be used as a guideline, rather than any specific rules. After all, there are times when the way the system works makes a toon far too powerful, as well as not powerful enough to fit a concept.
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Actually, what I find in my threads so far is that the frustrated hard science fiction writer in me starts imposing a lot of limits on my characters even before I start typing a move. I start thinking how a super-power might actually work and immediately rigor starts imposing lots of limitations in my mind. I start thinking, "Electricity doesn't work like that!" or "Fire has to work like this!" and so on. Have you actually ever been thrown through a plate glass window? It's a lot more bloody and damaging than most movies make it out to be. Batman or Captain America can't run much faster than 24 kph, no matter how much training he does or how many steroids he takes. Sports cars can't flip buses.
And so on.
God modding never really becomes a problem for me.
But having said that I have one or two characters that could one day evolve towards the kind of power Kang, Thor or Galactus has. At that point I just treat them like plot devices more than actual characters. And they stop being that fun for me because they really can't be played in interactive, collaborative fiction like we're all writing here.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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I know what you mean. With my main being a fire blaster who is capable of causing a lot of damage (IC obviously), I find myself coming up with reasons for why she doesn't regularly cause major fires and serious injury to team mates, never mind any enemies she's fighting. The fluff that's evolved from it is that so long as she is in control, she can choose how much her flames burn and how hot they are, and so long as she is able to keep mental tabs on team mates and any civilians, they will remain unharmed by any fire she is throwing around - a mental IFF tag if you will.|
Originally Posted by synthozoic
I start thinking how a super-power might actually work and immediately rigor starts imposing lots of limitations in my mind. I start thinking, "Electricity doesn't work like that!" or "Fire has to work like this!" and so on.
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It is something that I find is continuously evolving as new situations come up, but ultimately my aim for the character is for her to be a useful artillery piece, rather than anything that could cause any Plot™ breakage. The last thing I want is for her to become some all powerful cosmic being because that's just not fun, and isn't fun the point of this whole game?
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Ah, Annette's swords. When she was an itty, bitty hero, she used a fairly standard pair of Japanese swords, and that was fairly reasonable. As soon as she could, she got her hands on a pair of Talsorian energy blades. Now, that covers how she was able to carve up armoured Rikti and the like.|
Originally Posted by _Fea_
I know what you mean.
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Now she uses her wonderful, mega-flange Masamune daisho. Masamune was a real Japanese swordsmith. Half a legend. With something like magic woven into the metal, these swords can cut anything, or, when a 3 year-old picks one up and tries to chop her Dad's arm off, cut nothing. They also come when summoned, so she can pull them out of the air whenever she wishes.
Evolving game mechanic rationalisation.
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| and isn't fun the point of this whole game? |
To you (and I) fun does not involve playing overly powerful characters. It's too easy. No challenge.
To some, it is fun to play such characters, so long as they limit them in some ways which makes them vulnerable.
And to some, unfortunately, the fun aspect of a game is winning and that even applies to roleplay. How do you win at roleplay? Apparently, it's by having a character which is better than everyone else's character.
My point throughout really, has been that creating CP characters for that third variety of fun is generally to the detriment of all those around you.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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A similar thing happens with Cindersnap. He either snuffs the fire out on point of impact, making it more like a blast of heat and kinetic energy, or shapes the fire around friends and civilians.
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Originally Posted by _Fea_
The fluff that's evolved from it is that so long as she is in control, she can choose how much her flames burn and how hot they are, and so long as she is able to keep mental tabs on team mates and any civilians, they will remain unharmed by any fire she is throwing around - a mental IFF tag if you will.
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I kind of went at the sword thing with Damia the other way up. Most of her weapons are otherwise mystically unremarkable. Even the most exotic of them is merely well-designed for mystic energy flow mechanics. The power in her strikes (build up, the fact she can hit otherwise intangible and etheric things, related stuff) is basically all her own power channeled through the weapon. Frankly, the way her ability is written, she could pretty much achieve a similar effect with practically any melee weapon. it's just much easier for her in terms of familiarity, channeling technique, comfort value, and her martial skill to have that weapon be a sword. The magic she has is also part of what lets her pull them out of air. (Extradimensional spaces are much easier to handle when you don't have to worry about making sure whatever's in them can breathe, not go mad from sensory deprivation, etc)|
Originally Posted by Ravenswing
Ah, Annette's swords. When she was an itty, bitty hero, she used a fairly standard pair of Japanese swords, and that was fairly reasonable. As soon as she could, she got her hands on a pair of Talsorian energy blades. Now, that covers how she was able to carve up armoured Rikti and the like.
Now she uses her wonderful, mega-flange Masamune daisho. Masamune was a real Japanese swordsmith. Half a legend. With something like magic woven into the metal, these swords can cut anything, or, when a 3 year-old picks one up and tries to chop her Dad's arm off, cut nothing. They also come when summoned, so she can pull them out of the air whenever she wishes. Evolving game mechanic rationalisation. |
That said, she has used a proper magic sword at least once. She broke it off in the face of a Tentacled Cthulhoid Entity from the Dungeon Dimensions. There's fiction about it by Z. The paperwork was fearsome.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
That's more Crow's line of thing, chanelling magic through his sword.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Okay, so what I finally figured out about uber characters is that, even amongst the most sane players, it tends to end up in a urinating match to see who's best.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Hey, Sue isn't an uber character damn it, and that argument was simply based on teh fact there wa a glitch in the mission so it made it look like there was a hostile where there wasn't, leading the other character who sued super senses to say there was more people to inist there was more people, as the glitched map said there was, when there clearly wasn't anyone there.
This is another issue with high level powers like that, it can lead to this sort of situation.
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Oh indeed, and it almost led to Sue finding out if she can pass through solid objects, with a little help. |
Originally Posted by Omega_Chief
Hey, Sue isn't an uber character damn it, and that argument was simply based on teh fact there wa a glitch in the mission so it made it look like there was a hostile where there wasn't, leading the other character who sued super senses to say there was more people to inist there was more people, as the glitched map said there was, when there clearly wasn't anyone there.
This is another issue with high level powers like that, it can lead to this sort of situation. |
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Well, I think there is another way to win in collaborative roleplaying. It's to have the plot (or a subplot) evolve in a way that is satisfying to you. If you build a character and you think that some point they should die heroically or wind up in prison or just retire to make way for the younger heroes, then that doesn't necessarily mean that your character has to demonstrate they are the biggest can of whupass on planet. I think a lot of people in this hobby don't really mind losing fights or being, at least initially, frustrated from their goals--sane or insane--as long as those events happen in a way makes for a great read!|
Originally Posted by Ravenswing
Aha! We come to the core of the issue: What is fun?
To you (and I) fun does not involve playing overly powerful characters. It's too easy. No challenge. To some, it is fun to play such characters, so long as they limit them in some ways which makes them vulnerable. And to some, unfortunately, the fun aspect of a game is winning and that even applies to roleplay. How do you win at roleplay? Apparently, it's by having a character which is better than everyone else's character. My point throughout really, has been that creating CP characters for that third variety of fun is generally to the detriment of all those around you. |
Some people make characters they are know are doomed to failure and they don't mind, just so long as the character doesn't look like a chump when doing so.
When Galactus shows up and threatens to eat the Earth, we know Reed Richards is gonna figure out a way to stop him. But it's okay because Galactus gets to posture a bunch and demonstrate he's a nearly invincible space alien that can shrug off nuclear weapons and what have you. If I were a player running Galactus, I wouldn't feel bad when Mr. Fantastic pulls out the Ultimate Nullifier because I had a hand in creating a story that lasted a few issues and made me one of the more interesting villains in superhero comics.
Does this make sense? It's why roleplaying games, while being zero sum in parts, are considered cooperative, positive sum games. The GM isn't the opponent, the players might occasionally be opponents but, if they are mature about it, they realize they are creating a story that's bigger than any of them.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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But the other players might conversely feel a bit annoyed that only Mr Fantastic could do anything about it.|
Originally Posted by synthozoic
When Galactus shows up and threatens to eat the Earth, we know Reed Richards is gonna figure out a way to stop him. But it's okay because Galactus gets to posture a bunch and demonstrate he's a nearly invincible space alien that can shrug off nuclear weapons and what have you. If I were a player running Galactus, I wouldn't feel bad when Mr. Fantastic pulls out the Ultimate Nullifier because I had a hand in creating a story that lasted a few issues and made me one of the more interesting villains in superhero comics. |
Galactus isn't a good idea for a PC. He's an NPC and thus should really stay within his own self contained plots. I don't mind people using these kind of things as Antagonists, just not as Heroes! Because being on a team with Galactus when you're say... Spider-man, is kind of a "Why am I here again?" moment.
It's why I love AE. Because these kind of characters either have to scale back to account for their occasional face-planting and lack of proclaimed power, or just plain accept their idea is out of whack with overall tone of the game.
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Good point. Often the players are a group of heroes of all roughly equal strength, or even better, with overlapping strengths to compensate for their various weaknesses. That way everyone has a crucial part to play. If one player has all the powers, or is so immensely powerful that even their weaknesses aren't all that weak, what do they need with the other players? That makes it boring for everyone.|
Originally Posted by Fanservice
But the other players might conversely feel a bit annoyed that only Mr Fantastic could do anything about it.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
Galactus isn't a good idea for a PC. He's an NPC and thus should really stay within his own self contained plots. I don't mind people using these kind of things as Antagonists, just not as Heroes! Because being on a team with Galactus when you're say... Spider-man, is kind of a "Why am I here again?" moment.
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But then you run into another problem, at least as a GM, where if you have player characters of that strength, you may run out of believable challenges for them.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
It's why I love AE. Because these kind of characters either have to scale back to account for their occasional face-planting and lack of proclaimed power, or just plain accept their idea is out of whack with overall tone of the game.
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This pretty much excludes certain character conceptions or actions.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
Synth...
Could I suggest you read the rest of the thread?
That way we won't end up repeating exactly the same arguments over again.
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I'm 45. I got my first PnP RPG (the original black-box Traveller) for my 13th birthday. I've run an NwN server and I've done LARP. I'm quite aware of what roleplaying is.|
Originally Posted by synthozoic
Does this make sense? It's why roleplaying games, while being zero sum in parts, are considered cooperative, positive sum games. The GM isn't the opponent, the players might occasionally be opponents but, if they are mature about it, they realize they are creating a story that's bigger than any of them.
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I'm also aware that a lot of the people playing computerised RPGs don't.
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| But then you run into another problem, at least as a GM, where if you have player characters of that strength, you may run out of believable challenges for them. |
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| This pretty much excludes certain character conceptions or actions. |
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Am I the only one here whose heroes are actually about what you'd expect a hero to be power-wise?
I give them a few powers, a few weaknesses, and let them slowly "become more powerful" as they level.
I mean, screw bad RP... Cosmic Powers are boring. At least, godlike ones are. Ones that are less consciously controlled, somehow restricted, only occur at spontaneous intervals, or are somehow linked to some bizarre and alien aspect of the characters' psyche, those are interesting, but then, those also aren't as much of a problem.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
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No. You're really not. I have never been a fan of cosmic scale characters, either in playing them or having to try and squeeze them into plots as anything other than an NPC villain. I think it's all a bit symptomatic of wanting to keep advancing a character beyond the limits of the game. Which is ok within some ways but when you can fling Statesman through the sun just by blowing your nose, I think it's probably gone too far. And never mind the ******* contest that it can turn into if you get two in the same room... |
Originally Posted by Tramontane
Am I the only one here whose heroes are actually about what you'd expect a hero to be power-wise?
I give them a few powers, a few weaknesses, and let them slowly "become more powerful" as they level. I mean, screw bad RP... Cosmic Powers are boring. At least, godlike ones are. Ones that are less consciously controlled, somehow restricted, only occur at spontaneous intervals, or are somehow linked to some bizarre and alien aspect of the characters' psyche, those are interesting, but then, those also aren't as much of a problem. |
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Nope. You didn't read the thread either.|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
Am I the only one here whose heroes are actually about what you'd expect a hero to be power-wise?
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Nitoichi remains a human, if a rather capable one. Gunwitch will be a step down again.
Ni's progression to 50 was part of the character story, in fact. Her whole reason for all that leg work was to reach 'security level 35' so that Vanguard would take her on and let her beat the carp out of Rikti in the war zone.
Gunwitch is staying a street hero. I'm not sure I'll ever treat any of the 'world saving' missions as IC in her case, unless she's tagging along with other heroes. Carnies, maybe, since they affect normal folks, but she's far more interested in making sure the streets are safe than making sure the multiverse doesn't implode.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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That's my point. Half the people in this thread are in favor of Phenomenal Cosmic Power, the other half are all "I'm Batman, so GTFO!"
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Originally Posted by Ravenswing
Nope. You didn't read the thread either.
Nitoichi remains a human, if a rather capable one. Gunwitch will be a step down again. |
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
Dante sums it up quite nicely for me.
I'm not against powerful characters! Any level 50 is fairly badass no matter what their power-sets are. I've never made a Batman like character. I've made a heat controller (Ice/Fire tanker) a bio manipulator (Sonic/Rad ... long story) and a mutant with the power over nature (Plant/Storm Controller) who are all fairly damn powerful. But not crazily so!
But that's not really the subject here, it's the more 'Cosmic' level stuff. Things that don't really fit into the game as even the biggest of bads aren't exactly what you'd call Cosmic.
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So, you think Birdy's character, Nitoichi, is a Batman type?|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
That's my point. Half the people in this thread are in favor of Phenomenal Cosmic Power, the other half are all "I'm Batman, so GTFO!"
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WRONG!!!
Read the thread and try again.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.