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I wouldn't really say one is the Best by far all of them bring something different to /SD. The best AV solo is Dark/SD, the best all around I would say is Fire/SD. With Fire/SD you have good AoE with FSC and Shield Charge, and have good ST damage. Dark/SD you have great ST damage and a Self Heal that helps out It also has the -tohit in dark that helps too. With BS/SD you have Perry which gives you great defense early, with AAO makes HS and DE even bigger hitters.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
And there's also ElM/SD/Blaze which has silly amounts of AoE.
All three are good depending on what you want to do with the sets
If you want one that can farm decent and solo av's i say fire if you want purely farming elec/sd is pretty darn spiffy with the LR +FB and SC + FB
If you want pure ST and do not want to have to fit aidself then DM/SD rocks
any of the 3 sets perform well it just depends on what you are looking to do
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
My votes would be for Elm/SD and FM/SD for general, all around play.
Dm/SD is great solo, but I really feel you don't need such ST focused damage and a self heal when you're teaming and will provide more to a team if you have greater AoE potential.
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Id have to say BS/SD for 3 major reasons.|
Originally Posted by Firefist Ace
Hi guys/gals, new to the forum but have been playing for a while. What's the best primary for a /SD guy which will be good for solo and group play. I have quite a bit of influence on my Fire/WP (original, I know) so I'm not worrying about that.
I have feeling it will come down to opinion but lets discuss. Please elaborate on your points if you could. Thanks! |
1) Soft-Capping Melee Defense through Parry using only SOs.
2) AAO raising the already fugly Melee Damage your going to deliver.
3) Soft-Capped Melee Defense allows you to grab a entire mob to use a BU+AAO Damage increased Shield Charge.Ouch....
This is my opinion.
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My DM/SD is 43 and saturated SD + AAO + SC will kill +3 minions and leaves Lts. with a sliver of life. I do this specifically to Council to help level my SG-mates, and due to my SG-mates being lower level I can reliably pull, saturate SD and AAO and SC. With recharge times on SD and SC with Hasten being around 40 seconds(not a final IO build), I can herd, AoE, and mop up Lts and Bosses and have the combo ready for the next group.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
My votes would be for Elm/SD and FM/SD for general, all around play.
Dm/SD is great solo, but I really feel you don't need such ST focused damage and a self heal when you're teaming and will provide more to a team if you have greater AoE potential. |
Now, in a team situation this is going to be much more difficult and I agree that FM is much better for a well-rounded team player. While Elm/ is great for farming, it's ST damage is sub-par comparably.
BS/ is great for leveling, but Parry becomes obsolete once you soft-cap and the set's lethal damage is more commonly resisted than FM/, Elm/, or DM/, so I have trouble recommending BS/ over the other three. Even excluding BS/'s lethal being resisted more, it's ST attack chain, even without Parry, is lower DPS than FM/ or DM/.
So, in essence, I recommend FM/SD as a good choice for solo and team play with DM/SD coming in a close second due to it's higher inherent survivability with SL because not dying allows you to keep doling out damage for your team.
As stated there is no "best"
Most people comment on the end game IO'd up toons, but it's not all about end game.
I run a silly FM/SD build which is pretty nice, anything below level 45 missions etc are lame though and i'd hate too level it all the way 1-50.
DM/SD is really overlooked, it levels well, and tbh it hasn't got as bad AOE if you choose fireball from the epic. Unlike FM/ DM/ can run Fireball without the need for exspensive IOs.
BS/SD is fun, no doubt about it, with -res procs and some nice recharge. Granted it's damage is more resisted but with -res, procs and AAO it's really not as bad as people say. I swear those high damage attacks you get later in-game are a higher crit rate and do silly damage.
Elec/SD is for farmers, It's nice but it just can't beat one of the others for general game play imo.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
I use a EM/SD scrapper primarily for farming. It takes lots of money to get it good though unlike the fire/kin troller. It lacks single-target damage but you don't need it when you run farms solo.
If you are planning on making a farm toon i would suggest a fire/kin troller if you don't have a lot of inf. But Fire/SD seems a good allrounder.
FM/SD overall. Great ST damage, great AoE damage. Least survivable primary, but that's not much of a concern with SD.
The correct answer is Dark Melee.
No set meshes with Shield Defense more. It's like everything in both sets was entirely designed to work perfectly together.
SD is a Defense Set. Dark Melee has a -Acc debuff to enemies.
SD is slightly lacking in heals. Dark Melee has a nice, low recharge heal.
Dark Melee is somewhat lacking in AoE. Shield Defense has one of the coolest AoEs in the game.
Dark Melee and Shield Defense both have a stacking damage buff for each enemy in melee range. Combined, they give a tremendous boost to damage when fighting large groups.
They're perfect for each other.
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There are no "correct" answers, just opinions. Just about any of the forum regulars can make an equally compelling case for the other primaries.
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Originally Posted by Selenir
The correct answer is Dark Melee.
No set meshes with Shield Defense more. It's like everything in both sets was entirely designed to work perfectly together. SD is a Defense Set. Dark Melee has a -Acc debuff to enemies. SD is slightly lacking in heals. Dark Melee has a nice, low recharge heal. Dark Melee is somewhat lacking in AoE. Shield Defense has one of the coolest AoEs in the game. Dark Melee and Shield Defense both have a stacking damage buff for each enemy in melee range. Combined, they give a tremendous boost to damage when fighting large groups. They're perfect for each other. |
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Headsplitter is a 15% static crit rate and of course a small cone.|
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
BS/SD is fun, no doubt about it, with -res procs and some nice recharge. Granted it's damage is more resisted but with -res, procs and AAO it's really not as bad as people say. I swear those high damage attacks you get later in-game are a higher crit rate and do silly damage.
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The problem I have with an attack like headsplitter having 15% is that it results in massive overkill on minions and scrappers naturally have a higher crit chance vs luts/boss/av which closes the gap a bit against the things that it actually matters for.
It's nice, just not quite as nice as I was hoping it would be.
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No you can't |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
There are no "correct" answers, just opinions. Just about any of the forum regulars can make an equally compelling case for the other primaries.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I think the statement that dark melee has the most synergy with shields is accurate. Whether that makes it the "best" pairing depends on what you are looking to do with the toon.
Some uses remove the need for the heal and end refill that dark provides. For those uses it surely isn't the best.
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You have to make qualifications that it has the best synergy. I'd say that it has the best synergy in either builds where you're just using SOs or if you're building specifically to down hard single targets (AVs, pylons). |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think the statement that dark melee has the most synergy with shields is accurate. Whether that makes it the "best" pairing depends on what you are looking to do with the toon.
Some uses remove the need for the heal and end refill that dark provides. For those uses it surely isn't the best. |
When builds become soft capped, have high innate regen and recovery, some of those powers become redundant. I see quite a few dark/shield builds that skip dark consumption for example. Siphon life is taken because it's also a good damaging attack too. If it didn't do good damage, I'd contend that most players would skip it. Even the tohit debuffs become redundant because when you're soft capped, practically having the best mitigation in the game, it doesn't come into play that often.
And again, this thread is about what we think is the best pairing combination. There's no real guideline given as to what "best" is defined as. So to go ahead and proclaim there's a correct answer when there's no criteria given is kind of silly.
Seems fire is what has been going. Dark isn't my favorite tree so I'm leaning towards elect because I don't want to do fire again.
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No not really, no qualifications are necessary to state it has the best synergy with shields. The qualifications you just listed make it the "best" in those situations. You are welcome to claim a set that has better synergy with shields, but that will prove difficult.|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
You have to make qualifications that it has the best synergy. I'd say that it has the best synergy in either builds where you're just using SOs or if you're building specifically to down hard single targets (AVs, pylons).
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Like I said, that doesn't make it the "best" pairing though. The "best" depends on what you want the toon to do.
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| When builds become soft capped, have high innate regen and recovery, some of those powers become redundant. I see quite a few dark/shield builds that skip dark consumption for example. Siphon life is taken because it's also a good damaging attack too. If it didn't do good damage, I'd contend that most players would skip it. Even the tohit debuffs become redundant because when you're soft capped, practically having the best mitigation in the game, it doesn't come into play that often. |
A dm/shield that finds dark consumption unnecessary isn't slotted as aggressively as it could be, or has chosen a less damaging app. That's fine, but different from what could be done with dark consumption.
I also disagree entirely that if siphon life was returned to how it used to be dm/shields would be skipping it. They just wouldn't be including it as a fundamental part of their attack chain.
Anyway, synergy != best
So we might just be going in circles again.
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These are the answers you are looking for... (does jedi mind trick thing)
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Originally Posted by Hejtmane
All three are good depending on what you want to do with the sets
If you want one that can farm decent and solo av's i say fire if you want purely farming elec/sd is pretty darn spiffy with the LR +FB and SC + FB If you want pure ST and do not want to have to fit aidself then DM/SD rocks any of the 3 sets perform well it just depends on what you are looking to do |
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
As pointed out to me in another thread, my senses may be a bit dulled as of late as I struggle to discern between 43 and 45% def, but I can certainly tell that a set with no heal, no +regen, and no +recovery isn't being pushed to the limits if those things are found unneeded.
A dm/shield that finds dark consumption unnecessary isn't slotted as aggressively as it could be, or has chosen a less damaging app. That's fine, but different from what could be done with dark consumption. |
Unless of course you're on a halfway decent team.
At which point, you'd be doing more for you team with FM or Elm than you will with DM.
I think DM/SD is a great combo for soloing and doing scrapper challenges, but that synergy is mostly lost among the types of buffs you get on a team and the more AoE damage you can output the better.
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Originally Posted by Hejtmane
All three are good depending on what you want to do with the sets
If you want one that can farm decent and solo av's i say fire if you want purely farming elec/sd is pretty darn spiffy with the LR +FB and SC + FB If you want pure ST and do not want to have to fit aidself then DM/SD rocks any of the 3 sets perform well it just depends on what you are looking to do |
Probably the best answer so far.
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The synergy isn't lost, it just becomes unnecessary. Team composition shifts the "best" goalpost, but it doesn't affect any of the synergy aspects.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Unless of course you're on a halfway decent team.
At which point, you'd be doing more for you team with FM or Elm than you will with DM. I think DM/SD is a great combo for soloing and doing scrapper challenges, but that synergy is mostly lost among the types of buffs you get on a team and the more AoE damage you can output the better. |
You guys are getting hung up on the difference between synergy and best performance. They aren't the same thing.
When examining shields dark melee fills the weaknesses the set has. You may find yourself in a situation where those weaknesses no longer matter, but that doesn't equate to some other set synergizing better.
Here's a few more examples to hopefully help:
storm/dark is the most synergistic pairing you do for storm (when looking at blast sets). It provides a heal, an aoe immob, and an aoe stun to stack with the aoe stun of storm. That doesn't equate to storm/dark being the "best" storm you can make for specific different scenarios. It just means it is most complimentary.
stone/willpower is likely the most synergistic pairing you can do for willpower. The extreme control of stone allows the regen of the set to work to maximum effect and willpower offers extra recovery to fuel stone. But that doesn't mean stone/wp is the best stone melee toon or the best willpower toon you can make in specific situations. It just means they are the most complimentary pairing across the largest array of encounters.
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The OP was asking what is the 'best' primary to couple with SD. Obviously, that is going to be a matter of opinion, hell what he means by best isn't even certain, but I'm assuming he means what combo is best for the overall game.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The synergy isn't lost, it just becomes unnecessary. Team composition shifts the "best" goalpost, but it doesn't affect any of the synergy aspects.
You guys are getting hung up on the difference between synergy and best performance. They aren't the same thing. When examining shields dark melee fills the weaknesses the set has. You may find yourself in a situation where those weaknesses no longer matter, but that doesn't equate to some other set synergizing better. Here's a few more examples to hopefully help: storm/dark is the most synergistic pairing you do for storm (when looking at blast sets). It provides a heal, an aoe immob, and an aoe stun to stack with the aoe stun of storm. That doesn't equate to storm/dark being the "best" storm you can make for specific different scenarios. It just means it is most complimentary. stone/willpower is likely the most synergistic pairing you can do for willpower. The extreme control of stone allows the regen of the set to work to maximum effect and willpower offers extra recovery to fuel stone. But that doesn't mean stone/wp is the best stone melee toon or the best willpower toon you can make in specific situations. It just means they are the most complimentary pairing across the largest array of encounters. |
And imo, the answer is fire, hands down. And I have 3 lvl 50 sd scrappers, all fully io'd up, a fire/sd, an el/sd and a dm/sd. The dm/sd is best for inspless av soloing, but that's about it.
Now I understand your 'synergy' argument, but even by swapping 'best' with 'synergy', it's still a matter of opinion, and I'd still argue fire. Why? Because fire adds more value to the combo. Sure dm adds more 'stuff', but most of it is less valuable than the primary thing fire adds. Damage. Specifically, aoe damage. This game is an mmo, and most people team a lot in an mmo. That means lots of enemies to kill at one time, which means aoe damage is of very high value. It also means teamates who may might heal you or give you endurance buffs. Then there are inspirations that can be used to heal or recover end. That lessens the value of siphon life and dark consumption (even solo, i rarely ever need to pop a green or blue insp). But no teamate or inspiration is going to give you more aoe damage. That's why fire is better than dm, both in terms of 'best' combo and which 'synergizes' better. Of course, that's just my opinion...
Someday I will get an FM/SD to 50 and IO'd out. Someday...!
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Although I don't necessarily agree with the "MMO = team", everything else is spot on in my opinion. | Now I understand your 'synergy' argument, but even by swapping 'best' with 'synergy', it's still a matter of opinion, and I'd still argue fire. Why? Because fire adds more value to the combo. Sure dm adds more 'stuff', but most of it is less valuable than the primary thing fire adds. Damage. Specifically, aoe damage. This game is an mmo, and most people team a lot in an mmo. That means lots of enemies to kill at one time, which means aoe damage is of very high value. It also means teamates who may might heal you or give you endurance buffs. Then there are inspirations that can be used to heal or recover end. That lessens the value of siphon life and dark consumption (even solo, i rarely ever need to pop a green or blue insp). But no teamate or inspiration is going to give you more aoe damage. That's why fire is better than dm, both in terms of 'best' combo and which 'synergizes' better. |
Mitigation is convenience. Damage is rewards.
Hi guys/gals, new to the forum but have been playing for a while. What's the best primary for a /SD guy which will be good for solo and group play. I have quite a bit of influence on my Fire/WP (original, I know) so I'm not worrying about that.
I have feeling it will come down to opinion but lets discuss. Please elaborate on your points if you could.
Thanks!