Did the 4/7/10 AE xp change go too far?
By
Alvdraken,
Posted on: 2010-04-07 21:33 in Mission Architect
I was never a great AE farmer, just roamed in because the experience was better (and the mission localized). Over the last month I did 50 a blaster using the Kayzee 5 res buff 5 def buff mish. Got a few 40s out of it too. It was still a grind, just faster and easier than teaming. The way AE is set now I will not be using it anymore though. Better experience/treasure/badges elsewhere. Oh, I do like having an inspiration store on every map. Kind of funny that they built a whole bldg on each map for me to get inspirations from though.
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You can't earn badges from defeats because the devs did foresee the plethora of defeat-badge farm arcs that would have immediately sprung up if you had been able to earn regular badges. The fact that they didn't foresee the plethora of AE badge farm arcs still boggles my mind.
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Originally Posted by Chaos_Reaver
Which always struck me as being a tad strange to say the least, you can't earn badges from defeats, as they are technically not real. Why would you earn XP/Inf from them too.
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Really? How is that? I can still just run one of the missions i have keptsince before the AE was around anyway. With new sliders still set it to make spawns, and still run the mission solo for my second account to level on. |
Originally Posted by macskull
But, but! This is a good change because it is going to stop the exploiting!
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So what exploit did this fix? The one where i didnt have to actually take 5 minutes and use my base teleporters to move a new character from atlas to peregrine?
If people spent the time playing rather then worrying about how others play maybe less people would have to cry about finding teams. If a fix is going to hurt more people then it helps then why implement a half ***** fix? Plenty of missions offered appropriate rewards for the content, but because a handful of people would use a mechanic that could be slightly skewed to their favor, lets hurt 100 percent of the player base to fix the problem?
Not just that, but with the custom mob xp BS that they have nver fixed, this is even more of a hit to arcs that use custom mobs.
Half-***, required no thought, and punishes the honest players doesnt seem like a fix at all to me.
Your sarcasm detector is broken, good sir.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wormwood
The AE xp change made me unsub.
So. Yeah. (Though, to be fair, it was more Dr. Aeon's explanation of things that did it. Sometimes you're better off not knowing) |
this made me laugh, without farming people leave? good riddance.
No the nerf didnt go far enough, exp needs to go completely from AE and make it a ticket/cash thing only. You still have people exploitibg it and the more the devs waste time sorting it, the more time being wasted on something decent.
AE destroyed a decent game and now because people got used to farming in a few hours to 50 there throwing a tantrum. Its funny some players have never done anything other than jellybeans pre nerf, now there forced to learn to play the damn game.
great change, we need more like it.
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Ok if you ever played before the AE got brought in, you would know that level 1's do go to PI but more often than not there stood there spamming lvl 1 lft for hours because people used to ignore them.|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
Really? How is that? I can still just run one of the missions i have keptsince before the AE was around anyway. With new sliders still set it to make spawns, and still run the mission solo for my second account to level on.
So what exploit did this fix? The one where i didnt have to actually take 5 minutes and use my base teleporters to move a new character from atlas to peregrine? |
Thats the way it should be. If they got a team, good for them, if not even better.
I dont see why this game should cater for the farmers who are doing nothing but destroy what was once a good game. Instead of wasting time with fixes, just remove the exp from AE full stop and increase ticket count. People will still play it at 50 for a cash source income, yet it will stop the level 1s asking for a quick fix plus it will also take away some of the old skool farmers because they only did it for cash and recipes anyway since there 50.
If they implement it some will go to AE instead for cash just because its easier, in this case, farming isnt so bad.
When you get level 50s asking you what talos island is and how to get there, thats bad and thats why this change was brought in.
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Lol funny but true |
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
First they nerf the heck out of Pvp and now to AE. Good work devs, I hope you like all the nerd rage about you taking away all their precious exp. All the while I'll be busy playing what remains of the game.... XD
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Its funny that players would prefer to be shut up in a building playing the same damn mission everyday than actually play something decent. Damn AE noobs need to learn the game and quit whining -.-
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Uh, I am in no way a farmer and find farming utterly utterly utterly dull. You did notice how the last patch stomped the XP of most legitimate arcs, not just farms?|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
this made me laugh, without farming people leave? good riddance.
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Or just looking for yet another soapbox for 'AE is wrong! Join the Council!'
Additionally, 'without farming people leave'... you think this made farming go away, or just pretending because it makes your point look valid?
It's been a while since I posted anything up here, so I guess I'll grace you all with my 15 minutes of lame.
I will go as far as to say, I agree with both sides of this argument. I agree with the idea of an even playing field, but this nerf (one in which they stayed quiet about) did go a little too far. It targeted too wide of an area & those who were innocent of exploiting were punished as well.
I will say, I'm no saint. Have I farmed? The answer is, yes. But mostly I solo farmed... When I did help out others, I did it out of charity. I never charged anyone... But, why do people farm anyway? I think it's because we're tired of going through the same motions over & over & over again...
And while on this subject, and I know I'm going to get some heat for saying this, but the farmers do/and have, contributed to the game. For one, the markets. Everyone is getting rich. And you kinda have to be rich to buy what you want/need.
But when you create something, that is tied to something else & so on, you create a "domino effect." You can't throw one thing under a bus without throwing another. Supply & demand. Hero & villian count has dwindled because of the last few nerfs. Yes, mainly it was farmers that hung it up & left. Even some were banned... And that, hurt the market place. Supply went down, not as many to run missions. So, demand went up.
I do have a few AE missions that are, in fact, story driven & I was working on a new one that would've been much more in depth, but thanks to the nerf, it's now on the back burner.
AE, as I saw it, was meant to be about the freedom of expression & creativity. When AE first went live, the devs mentioned that there were going to be a few exploits... And yet, they left it. They didn't fix it beforehand, why? They knew what was going to happen.
After the first week or so, I heard that some people were getting banned. I don't know for how long, but I couldn't help but think, what's going on? I even heard that those that were innocent were getting band.
I asked myself, "Are they policing the game now?" We hardly got a straight answer, if any.
AE, freedom of expression & creativity for everyone. But now, freedom within limits... If I (or anyone) wish to make themselves into an unstoppable killing machine with the aid of multiple allies that buff my character to that level, I would think that should be within that freedom. You & some may call that an exploit that needs to be fixed, I call that stomping on our freewill & what I, and others thought, was the purpose of AE...
What's next, policing again? Going after the solo farmers & punishing them? Punish my friends because I (or some else) PL'ed them? Oh, better yet, lets go with a 1984 outlook. I can feel you breathing over my shoulder now... Lets have some redistribution of wealth while we're at it. That'd be great... Communism all the way, baby.
Why give us AE when you're going to water it down to the point of uselessness? Nobody plays it now. AE is now on life support... Bad enought that real life is slowly becoming more & more confined. Our freedoms are being stomped on everyday. And no, I'm not a damn rightwinger... However, I do know a "screw-job" when I see it.
To the devs, (if you read this) remember this, the buck stops with us. What you failed to do, was to notify your players of what you did on 4/7/2010 in the patch notes. You may not think it, or even care, but you are damaging you crediblity with your players.
This was nearly done in the cover of darkness. That was wrong. And you hinding it from us, makes it worse.
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You CAN do this, it just won't net as much XP. Heck, i have a mission like this where I take all my own characters and wail on all the archvillains, and it's not even published because i don't even CARE about the rewards! I play it when i feel like seeing all my characters kick some butt together. And i could publish it if i wanted.. and since one would get maybe 10% experience and it would use all standard mobs, i'd dare anyone to try and call it a farm =P
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Originally Posted by Jack_Jeckel
AE, freedom of expression & creativity for everyone. But now, freedom within limits... If I (or anyone) wish to make themselves into an unstoppable killing machine with the aid of multiple allies that buff my character to that level, I would think that should be within that freedom. You & some may call that an exploit that needs to be fixed, I call that stomping on our freewill & what I, and others thought, was the purpose of AE...
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-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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This makes me laugh.|
Originally Posted by Jack_Jeckel
But, why do people farm anyway? I think it's because we're tired of going through the same motions over & over & over again...
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| And while on this subject, and I know I'm going to get some heat for saying this, but the farmers do/and have, contributed to the game. For one, the markets. Everyone is getting rich. And you kinda have to be rich to buy what you want/need. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Im sorrry but your being dumb. Yes when the AE hit the streets it was totally abused. But then they nerfed XP in it and it calmed down. THen they further introduced the SSK system which calmed it down again. Since those two changes the old days of begging in PI were comparably way worse then what has gone on in the AE. In fact the AE is mostly a ghost town now.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Ok if you ever played before the AE got brought in, you would know that level 1's do go to PI but more often than not there stood there spamming lvl 1 lft for hours because people used to ignore them.
Thats the way it should be. If they got a team, good for them, if not even better. I dont see why this game should cater for the farmers who are doing nothing but destroy what was once a good game. Instead of wasting time with fixes, just remove the exp from AE full stop and increase ticket count. People will still play it at 50 for a cash source income, yet it will stop the level 1s asking for a quick fix plus it will also take away some of the old skool farmers because they only did it for cash and recipes anyway since there 50. If they implement it some will go to AE instead for cash just because its easier, in this case, farming isnt so bad. When you get level 50s asking you what talos island is and how to get there, thats bad and thats why this change was brought in. |
So these changes really dont effect to many people in the AE. The people that can farm in the AE can farm anywhere. My point was with my two accounts i can just as easily take my low toons to PI and farm them there. I dont need the AE. So spending hours of work time on "Fixing" it instead of just ignoring what the few do in there, is really the punishement to other players. The time wasted that could be used to get issue 17 out, going rogue etc.
You want to ***** about the impact of farming? Well the impact isnt the farmers anymore, its the time spent to curb what has become a small and ever smaller part of the player community instead of creating new content to keep the majority of the player base happy.
So direct your energies to telling the devs enough is a enough, undo this crappy change and leave well enough alone. Cause if you didnt read the Dev posts, they put this change in knowing it wasnt good, and plan and spending even now more time to fix it further. It was fine before this change. Or good enough atleast. But your complaining about the farmers, complain about the devs spending countless hours fixing something they will never fix instead of just creating a great game. THAT is where this game has gone wrong over the years, time and time again.
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I have to say that I totally agree with QJ. |
Originally Posted by QuiJon
Im sorrry but your being dumb. Yes when the AE hit the streets it was totally abused. But then they nerfed XP in it and it calmed down. THen they further introduced the SSK system which calmed it down again. Since those two changes the old days of begging in PI were comparably way worse then what has gone on in the AE. In fact the AE is mostly a ghost town now..
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Dev's this is a stupid move... stop looking at this game like it's a case of you versus us.
Farming is a big part of every mmorpg, some can do it... some can't. Some put alot of effort into being the best at it as they can because it's what they like. Same for PvP'ers and Rp's .... My point is this.
If farming is what makes farmers happy.... then bloody well let them farm!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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So there is no benefit to practicing and using your powers, exercising etc. Hum guess someone should tell the X-Men this they could prob save a ton of money on electricy not turning on their danger room anymore.
| Which always struck me as being a tad strange to say the least, you can't earn badges from defeats, as they are technically not real. Why would you earn XP/Inf from them too. |
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This response is strange.|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
So there is no benefit to practicing and using your powers, exercising etc. Hum guess someone should tell the X-Men this they could prob save a ton of money on electricy not turning on their danger room anymore.
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When the X-Men practice in their danger room they don't get any money, or accolades from the public or their heroic deeds.
They do get experience in how to deal with different situations.
I think your analogy needs a bit of refining, as it makes it sound like you're saying the only thing folks should get from AE is xp. Also I don't see AE as a danger room, based on the lore. It's more an amusement park for superheroes.
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I for one have never understood why we get Influence or Infamy for letting our heroes / villains play in an amusement park for Superheroes. XP of course makes sense, both ingame and in terms of getting people to use the system. Tickets I can accept too (but we can't earn goldfish in a plastic bag. What sort of crummy Amusement Park is this, Aeon?). Inf I really don't get the rational behind at all at all. You can SO yourself with Tickets easily, why do we get Inf?
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
This response is strange.
When the X-Men practice in their danger room they don't get any money, or accolades from the public or their heroic deeds. They do get experience in how to deal with different situations. I think your analogy needs a bit of refining, as it makes it sound like you're saying the only thing folks should get from AE is xp. Also I don't see AE as a danger room, based on the lore. It's more an amusement park for superheroes. |
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You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to bring up the X-Men's Danger Room as well (which got taken care of a few posts back), and how it makes sense to give experience and even tickets, but giving out inf doesn't make any sense at all.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I for one have never understood why we get Influence or Infamy for letting our heroes / villains play in an amusement park for Superheroes. XP of course makes sense, both ingame and in terms of getting people to use the system. Tickets I can accept too (but we can't earn goldfish in a plastic bag. What sort of crummy Amusement Park is this, Aeon?). Inf I really don't get the rational behind at all at all. You can SO yourself with Tickets easily, why do we get Inf?
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(Of course, the whole idea of influence/infamy as money never really made any sense either. Why would my villain be less infamous because some schmo gave him a power enhancement? Or more so because he gave a dude some salvage?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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NERFS hurt the general populace and at the same time gives them a sense of feeling that what was done somehow someway deterred the "farmers."
I laugh at this. Farmers will always find away, and you know....they welcome the nerfs. Nerf some more. Keep nerfing till there's nothing left to nerf, and the farmers will ALWAYS be ahead of the curve. That's how powergamers/farmers work. They will always be ahead of the curve.
I for one, welcome the nerfs just so that more people QQ. It doesn't affect me, because as a powergamer, I will find another way to gain rewards at a MORE effecient manner than normal. 
I say kudos to nerfs! KEEP NERFING! While I gain my rewards faster than most.
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It wasn't a problem with farming but with exploiting, so calling this a nerf (in the pejorative sense of the term) isn't accurate, now that I think about it. A fix sounds about right.
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Originally Posted by JKwervo
NERFS hurt the general populace and at the same time gives them a sense of feeling that what was done somehow someway deterred the "farmers."
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A lame Fix for that matter. It made all the "storytellers" nerdrage. lol I still laugh at ALL these FIXES and NERFS. |
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
It wasn't a problem with farming but with exploiting, so calling this a nerf (in the pejorative sense of the term) isn't accurate, now that I think about it. A fix sounds about right.
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Frankly, it doesn't affect me. But I just like rubbing it in onto those that think we're breaking the holy grail of MMORPG gaming by gaining faster rewards. Exploits...I don't care. It happened. But gaining efficient rewards at a faster rate than normal, doing them without EXPLOITS, and it's still looked down upon by these supposed righteous holier than thou people who think that it's wrong to do so.
Fix some more please. Nerf some more please. I love it all.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
It wasn't a problem with farming but with exploiting, so calling this a nerf (in the pejorative sense of the term) isn't accurate, now that I think about it. A fix sounds about right.
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A Fix you say...
same way as to stop your dog having puppies it goes to get "fixed".
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Which is a shame.
They should have just turned off all rewards gained from the absolute begining and just said. "All stories are played using a virtual reality, as such no rewards will be gained"
(Not that I would have wanted that mind you.)
Which would not have lead to any of this in the first place. As people would have known from the start that using AE was for story telling and not for leveling or farmable in anyway. That said this measure hopefully is only temporary as stated.