Vengeance shenanigans


Cade Lawson

 

Posted

I find it interesting that Nemesis LTs are able to self cast Vengeance on themselves when they are killed. Are there any other mobs that can pull this off with Vengeance itself or other powers?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
They're using the original version of Vengeance, where you had to die for it to activate.
and stacks


The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot View Post
and stacks
we can still stack veng, but we can only stack it if it activates at the same time


 

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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
we can still stack veng, but we can only stack it if it activates at the same time
And with Shivans and other pets, hilarity ensues.


*queues the Benny Hill Theme*


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
I find it interesting that Nemesis LTs are able to self cast Vengeance on themselves when they are killed. Are there any other mobs that can pull this off with Vengeance itself or other powers?
Zamuel,

The NPC mobs all use the "original" versions of the various powers that have been altered/changed/nerfed/re-written/etc over the years. There are lots of examples of this.

Here are just a couple of them:

Vengence (Nemesis Lts.) - requires the user to be defeated, multi-stackable to near deity levels.

Moment of Glory (Paragon Protectors) - lasts a long time, hard sets hit points to 1/4 full, disorients the mob when it wears off

Smoke Grenade (Night Widows) - MASSIVE perception and tohit debuff. [Not sure if this one actually counts since the original smoke grenade was nerfed long before Night Widows even existed [I think...my memory has issues trying to go that far back]]


6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
Smoke Grenade (Night Widows) - MASSIVE perception and tohit debuff. [Not sure if this one actually counts since the original smoke grenade was nerfed long before Night Widows even existed [I think...my memory has issues trying to go that far back]]
I've always found this one frustrating on defense-based characters. You can't see anything, and it won't break since you never get hit. So basically it just means you stand around for a minute (or however long it lasts - a long time) doing nothing. Awesome.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlan_ View Post
I've always found this one frustrating on defense-based characters. You can't see anything, and it won't break since you never get hit. So basically it just means you stand around for a minute (or however long it lasts - a long time) doing nothing. Awesome.
I usually just pop a yellow, that gives you enough Perception to see them again, at least at melee range


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
I usually just pop a yellow, that gives you enough Perception to see them again, at least at melee range
True enough. I find I often don't have one handy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
I usually just pop a yellow, that gives you enough Perception to see them again, at least at melee range
Now if only that worked on NPC placate. It drives me nuts when Bane Spider Scouts placate me then can't hit me.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
I usually just pop a yellow, that gives you enough Perception to see them again, at least at melee range
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlan_ View Post
True enough. I find I often don't have one handy.
This is why I love the 'Rectified Reticle: Increased Perception' IO. Slot that puppy in buildup, and you can see and hit the night widows.

It has a good, long duration too, so with some recharge in buildup it's pretty darned consistent.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
Moment of Glory (Paragon Protectors) - lasts a long time, hard sets hit points to 1/4 full, disorients the mob when it wears off
You're conflating PP MoG with PP Unstoppable. MoG doesn't Disorient, Unstoppable does. It's just that Unstop isn't as tough as MoG, and those bosses are usually dead long before it wears off.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
This is why I love the 'Rectified Reticle: Increased Perception' IO. Slot that puppy in buildup, and you can see and hit the night widows.

It has a good, long duration too, so with some recharge in buildup it's pretty darned consistent.
Is it really enough to counteract it? I seem to recall still getting blinded on my cold that had this. Maybe they were stacking it?


 

Posted

I have the +perception IO in rage on my brute because I hate being blinded. Now I can continue pounding them even when they use smoke on me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlan_ View Post
Is it really enough to counteract it? I seem to recall still getting blinded on my cold that had this. Maybe they were stacking it?
It's strong enough to get you medium range perception back. Your perception will be slightly lower, so I wouldn't be surprised if full range wasn't there, but you still won't be running into 'invisible' spawns, or be unable to see the widow as they whiff away at you. Multi-smoke grenades? Tactics/yellows are needed for that. When I've had that, it makes melee still workable but anything else iffy.

Oh...and the MOG/Unstoppable NPC powers? Psy damage kicks their tush.
*edit* also note: vengeance has a LoS limit. 'tis best to use knockback to finish off nemesis lieuts away from view of their buddies.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
IOh...and the MOG/Unstoppable NPC powers? Psy damage kicks their tush.
Man, wish I'd known that before. I'd have been spamming Taunt (with the Zinger proc) instead of hitting about 1 out of 8 shots with KO Blow...


 

Posted

Psi attacks are still defended against by NPC MoG's +Defense. Taunt would, indeed, be a fine way to poke them with a Psi damage proc, but actual Psi attacks whiff as much as everything else.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Psi attacks are still defended against by NPC MoG's +Defense. Taunt would, indeed, be a fine way to poke them with a Psi damage proc, but actual Psi attacks whiff as much as everything else.
Hm. I'm not certain, and have wondered about this..MoG gives no resistance to psy, but the defense..is it the positional nature of psy attacks that gets defended against? I seem to be able to land mind/ powers easily against them on my dom...

Then again, when running a truckload of +acc bonuses with a team sporting tactics and such in most cases, my views on defense values get skewed considerably.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
I seem to be able to land mind/ powers easily against them on my dom...
None of the powers in Mind Control have positional vectors.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

I actually do not remember what original MoG provided - positional or typed. (Note that typed defense has no strict relationship to what types of resistance a power offers - they can be set separately.)

If Mind Control powers land on MoG'd critters easily that certainly suggests they are using positional defense and not typed, in which case only Psi Blast type powers would be defended against because they have a positional attack type. I had plenty of experience not being able to hit MoG-ing Paragon Protectors on my Dark/Psi Defender, so the mos definitely don't have typed defense that just has a Psi hole, unless it's changed relatively recently.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

dont forget valkyrie still has the original MoG too


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
If Mind Control powers land on MoG'd critters easily that certainly suggests they are using positional defense and not typed, in which case only Psi Blast type powers would be defended against because they have a positional attack type.
Yes. Against Mind Control, old MoG is more equivalent to flooring your resistance than it is to a T9 defensive power.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

The worst thing about PP MoG is that to do the low health trick, they heal then take a large amount of self damage thus stealing your XP.


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