Adding a Fat slider

Yes, I can see pocket D doing that, espically when they first release it. The maturity of that level will not last that long. Plus, there will always be people who do something to just annoy others so the content of what they are doing doesn't really matter, its not like they're going to stop if they don't have something specific.



Unless of course they calculated the elbow joint's minimum distance to the body based upon the fat slider position and added that check into the animation loop.
Plus there's already clipping issues with the Huge body when its ramped up.
And if there is minor clipping issues, battles level 30+ are more like fireworks, so its not like we're going to see the problems that much.

This is a horrible reason to restict player creativity. There are people who do disturbing things in this game already (like a certain Creepy Grandma, and a pair of characters that were provocatively named and resembled a priest and a 12 yo). Report the offenders, and let the rest of us have our options.

/signed to this idea.

I actually need to specify a few things here, because I realise just now I've been somewhat ambiguous. Sticking to Tops With Skin for females, those come in two varieties:

1. "Bare" chest skin with a pattern over it. Things like Sport, Savage, Disco, Holes, Belly Tee and so forth are patterns. The basic chest has the same skin texture with the nipples (and naval O.o) removed, and it's actually a skin-coloured version of the tights, with patterns on it. This includes single-colour patterns ONLY. No shading, no shapes, no contour lines. Just flat colour.

2. Fully-fledged textures that have the "top" baked in with the "skin." These are things like Metallic, Bridal, Angel Plus and actually the female Tank Top, as well as the Witch tops. These aren't patterns over a base skin model (which is why the Witch top has Super Cleavage!!! when no others do). These are no different from something like Flack Jacket, Metallic or Chitin. They're whole textures, just with certain parts of them inheriting tinting from skin colour selection, rather than from item colour selection. That's why everything "with skin" only has one colour option - the other is taken up already.

Number 1 options we can swap skin texture for an as long as it resembles skin and doesn't have nipples, no-one will be the wiser. Number 2 options we can't just "swap" skin textures for, because the skin is drawn on the same picture as the item of clothes. These would need unique, entirely new textures, which could be very problematic.

The reason this is problematic, as I see it, is that the game has no way to overlay textures on top of each other. Even chest patterns are not part of the same texture as the chest. Look closely and you'll notice it's actually painted on a second layer of invisible surface that's about half an inch over your chest, floating in mid air. We don't have a way, at least as far as I can tell, to put two textures on the same model, one over the other, such that the bottom shows up only where the top one is transparent. In essence, we can't use stencil textures, or if we can, they're never used. Stencil textures would actually be a lot like how you used to be able to put vinyls on your car in Need for Speed: Underground, in that you had three layers, with each layer covering up all layers below it, with your car's paint always at the bottom.

Such a system of layering textures would allow us to combine different textures dynamically, with the border between textures not set by the designer, but being determined in real time based on where a texture's picture ends. That way, we could have a tights-fabric-looking Eden over the Scales texture, or the Witch top over a Rocky torso. Our current patterns carry only COLOUR, but they do not carry TEXTURE. And I don't think the system is capable of doing that to begin with.

In fact, I'm wholly convinced this exact problem is what Shirts were designed for. Shirts occupy a duplicate character model supersized so it's about an inch above the character's actual skin, which you can texture irrespective of what you picked as your Torso texture. As such, you can have, say, a chitin top and STILL have a cloth shirt over it. The problem is that:

1) Men have no such shirts.
2) Women have far too few options for them (three, in fact, plus an additional one with the Belly Shirts veteran reward)
3) There are only cloth shirts available, but not armour pieces, rock outcroppings, mutant growths and so forth. It's just clothes, and some of the more mundane, to boot.
4) We haven't had a new one for YEARS.

So... Shirts for men, shorts for men and more shirts and shorts for women. I guess that could go a long way towards patching that hole up. Oh, and of course, a muscular torso for women, just because I feel we should have one.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

If they put it, they put it in. However, if it's something they want to work towards, I'd say make it one of the last things they put it in.

Read a superhero comic. It's not that common. No really, it isn't. Blob, Big Bertha...they're the exceptions in superheo comics.

Adding this would ruin the immersion for alot of people, because alot of people already do non-superhero creations in a superhero mmo. Why would you want to add to it?

Also, to add to this discussion. On the recent chat with the devs, they flat out said no to huge female builds. Not "Possibly in the the future" or "not with the tech we have" they said "No"

Im gonna start frm here with the idea that instead of Huge Female Model, we are given an expanded "scale" tab. Currently, we can change the dimensions of our facial features, why not extend this to the entire body. Currently, we can make our bodies more muscular or less so and taller or shorter. Why not have the ability to make your kneck thicker, or one arm muscular and one thin? Scales for longer or shorter forarms or larger hands would let us make our gorilla characters look more realistic. Scales is the way to go and we already have it in game.

Because THE WHOLE GAME already deviates from whatever narrow definition the term "super hero" may once have had. The very fact that you see a lot of people do non-classic super heroes should be proof enough that that is what the players want to make. And I seriously doubt it ruins the immersion for "a lot of people," since outside of the exceedingly rare complain, I simply don't see this. Not in-game, not on the forums.

Furthermore, it's actually pretty insulting to suggest what you suggest. Say I keep making non-traditional heroes because that's I like. Heroes who fit into the setting mind you. Are you seriously going to try and suggest I'm doing it wrong and the game shouldn't be about my concepts? That what I want more of should be added last because it's not what YOU want?

City of Heroes is not and has never been a comic book simulator. It's a game inspired by comic books, but it is not a game that IS a comic book. It is not a game that is dictated to by what you see in a comic book. It is a game with its own fiction, its own story and its own thematics. If you want a game that's desperately trying to be an interactive comic book, that's what Champions Online is practically in its entirety. Since I'm posting on this forum and not that one, I obviously prefer this game.

And, again, we're running up against an extremely narrow view of what comic books represent. If you want to stick to just silver age or golden age spandex costumes and campy heroes, then go right ahead, but comic books are much more wide and varied than just that. I can almost guarantee you that there is not a single (serious) character that you can take out of this game and NOT find similarity with in at least some comic book somewhere.

In short, stop trying to impose your vision of thematics onto other people's game. The chief selling point of City of Heroes is freedom in customization.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You're wrong. Many super-powered individuals are fat. Some are just overweight. Here's a list of ten (some silly, yes) that I found with a cursory search.

Super power does not discriminate based on body weight.

They said no to "Hugh Female". Not Huge.

I think it was a dev being cute at a typo.

Yeah but, they not famous Heroes, hell they not even B Rated heroes, If Being Fat Was Famous in Comic Books, then Super Man and Bat Man would be be Both Fat People. However you do Make a Point, however Mosty Villains can pull it off, by being Ugly, Sinful, Demonic and Grotesque. Super Heroes follow a old designs like they are suppose to look like Greek Statues, Gods like, Tall, Sexy and Strong.

*steps away from Green*

I smell a can of worms opening here...

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Nite Owl was on the list I posted. Most people wouldn't call a member of the Watchmen a "B Rated" hero.

Actually, I try to stick to silver/modern age.

That said. Where did I, in my post, say not to add it? I just said I'd rather see it be one of the last things put in.

The OP put in a suggestion. Would you have rather me just put in "/unsigned" and left it at that?

And notice I say superhero comic. Not comic book. Got to the main page, it even says "A Super Hero Online Game". So what's wrong with me wanting to see it stay more super hero and less D&D Adventure?

Exceptionally stupid and short sighted answer. Let's add this to others!
"If being _____ was famous in comic books..."
"... Superman and batman would be black."
"... Superman and Batman would be native americans."
"... Superman and Batman would be children/teens."
"... Superman and Batman would wear pink."
"... Superman and Batman would be mutants."
"... Superman and Batman would be women."

ONE thing being one way does not mean ALL things are that way. If a statement like yours were true overall, you would be able to post an intelligent comment instead of this drivel.

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You may be dangerously stepping upon a few "standards of beauty" issues. While outright fat characters generally aren't considered attractive, there's far more options in real life than the borderline anorexic ideals that often get portrayed. In a way that's the whole premise of the song "Baby Got Back". Plus, if you want to use the Greek god argument, women were portrayed as generally thicker in art back then than most modern artistic portrayals.

To the OP's suggestion, especially in light of a recent dev comment, I'd say we should argue for the ability to adjust the sliders up and down slightly more than our current minimums and maximums.

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Like I said exceptions to the rule, and looking at that list, I wouldn't count #9 or #10, as one is the actor (not the character) who's likely to shed some weight for the part anyways. The other was a contestant of who wants to be a super hero.

Two of them where about stories of the heroes being out of action for awhile (Incredibles/Watchmen).

And some of them were more silly comics.

City of Villains uses the same character creator as City of Heroes, and any option added to one would be added to the other. Should I post the list of fat villains, which is far more lengthy and serious?

Kingpin, Penguin, the Blob, Egghead, Doctor Octopus - that's just a small sample of fat or overweight villains in "serious" comic series. Excluding the option because "heroes aren't fat" also deprives us of fat villains.

Wouldn't Kingpin be more Huge build with a max physique? After all he's only 2% body fat. He's all muscle.

I'd still say it's the exception. And I also said I hope it's the last thing added (not to never add it). There's just other very superhero-y things that can be worked on imo, that would be better.

So, essentially:

Is that what you're referring to? So, does that ever state WHICH era, version or style of comic books, or hell... Does it even state AMERICAN comic books? Because I searched, and I couldn't find it. In fact, I couldn't find any mention of "super hero" at all. There's "hero" and there's "comic book" but that's about it.

First of all, even if we assume this is a super hero comic book of silver to pre-modern age American comic books of a very specific style, I cannot agree that that should mean other styles should be consistently given minor importance. Whatever the game's genre may be called, the fact of the matter is that people play this game for themes from practically all across the board. Science fiction, film noir, slasher flicks, anime, action flicks, fantasy, paranormal, conspiracy theory, cloak-n-dagger, spy thriller... One of THE greatest strengths of this game is its ability to absorb absolutely any concept and make it work within its world, so if you're trying to weigh your personal preference more than those of other people just because the game happens to have "comic book" in its description, then I simply cannot agree with you.

Furthermore, you yourself admit you're sticking to a particular subset of American super hero comic book, and you're trying to judge based on that preference. However, the availability of themes even just in comic books is a lot broader than this. ANYTHING you can come up with as an example of things not in comic books, I can bet money someone will come out and quote out of a comic book. And then there are non-American comic books, like manga, which people keep unfairly excluding. You know what? Foreshadow - the man who butted the Statesman out of centre stage for City of Hero and who was billed as one of the most powerful heroes in the city, could as well have been right out of a manga. And that's without even thinking about it too hard.

You're completely justified in preferring what you prefer and asking that it be prioritised. But please don't try to use empty justifications to give it undue weight. It just ends up annoying people who don't share your view of what the game "should be about."

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets

... Hit it ...

Maybe so, but the way he's drawn makes him look fat. Huge body with max physique won't end up looking like him, even if you set the waist and hips sliders to max and the shoulders to minimum. In order to shape him right, you need a fat slider: these sliders are for what's outside, not inside.

City of Heroes: Online Super Hero Game by NCSoft (The Page Tag).

See, it says it right on the page tag...SUPER HERO.

And I'm okay with different themes. I'm okay with the occaissional screwy concept.

But adding more options, imo, to create less typical Super Hero, is just going to mean we see less Super Heroes, in a Super Hero game that already has A LOT of non-super hero ideas running around.

So, why not make more SUPER HERO (and Villain) options, before more of the "Look I made my bear gut, battle axe wielding drawf barbarian from our LOTR games" options?

There are a LOT of "fat" concepts that are very much in line with "Super Hero" that I would love to see. The Blob was always one of my favourite villains growing up (NOTHING MOVES THE BLOB!), and Huge just doesn't work for that feel. I'm also fond of the overweight speedster (named simply "Speed") villain from Sky High, which is a movie very much in the "Super Hero" feel.

Writing off "fat" as "not super" shows a lack of imagination.

I didn't say it couldn't be. I just said it's in the minority to such a degree as I'd rather see other things done first.

A Ranged (or Assault)/Defense AT would fall much more in line with alot of comic book super hero feel, and look at posters saying "No" to that. And that would allow way more concepts to be realized than a fat slider.

Which is why I say keep it one of the last things on the agenda, as there are so many other things they could be doing to full fill more concepts at once that would likely need less work.

A fat slider would need to go in and fix all the costume pieces to fit in with the added bulk, when already there are some costume sets that clip with what we have.

I'd rather see them work on new costume pieces, than fix the others to work with a new slider. But with that, when they got around to a fat slider, would just mean even more work to get it right.