The problem with Romulus (may be spoilers?)

Particularly since Romulus the Warshade is a very minor character, who appears in two missions from one contact in what is probably the least popular zone redside, who also happens to be completely skippable.

Don't forget Gordon Bower and Gordon Stacey.

Or Desdemona and Desdemona the Glint.

Isn't there a contact named Justin? That must be Manticore in his secret secret identity!

And God forbid anyone be named Mike or John. They'd instantly have the worst ever case of Multiple Personality Disorder.

Thanks for this!

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

This.

The whole Warshade gimmick of them being reformed Nictus lends itself to Romulus the Warshade being Augustus. The fact that he isn't according to Manticore seems very sloppy to me and counter intuitive.

It'd be like having a new NPC named Martin Cole show up who has electric/invulnerability powers who favors red and blue and calls Ms. Liberty "Cousin" turn out to be someone totally unrelated to Statesman.

Fixed for Star Wars-iness.

Exactly. It isn't like the CoX writing pool to to leave missed story opportunities like the Romuli just hanging around. (With the possible exception of that whole Coming Storm mishegas, I suppose.) "Sloppy and counterintuitive" took the words right out of my mouth. In my experience they're a lot better with their continuity than this.

That's... not a similar situation at all.

It's more like sticking an non-combat escort into a one-off mission and naming him "Marcus Frekleburger", and having the players claim he's related to Statesman. Or worse, he is Statesman. Which this thread is claiming.

It would be the other way around. Romulus Augustus (Augustulus) was part of the "Path of the Dark" lore from the start. He's explicitly mentioned in the 35-40 arc "A Path Into Darkness". This was mangled/retconned/co-opted into the Nictus storyline in issue 3, and eventually grew into the Cimerora historical defilement. The use in CoV is the second use.

Since it is painfully obvious to me that the CoV team either didn't bother to review the existing canon or did and just didn't care about contradicting it, I don't see any compelling reason to link these characters at all.

No one is claiming that Romulus and Romulus Augustus are the same person, especially since we have redname word that they aren't. We're saying that it's weird that an ancient Nictus named Romulus and a modern Warshade also named Romulus aren't related at all, because all the lore and backstory tools are there to create a believable and viable connection.

Honestly it would do a lot to fix things (in my opinion, anyway) if the lore just mentioned that "Romulus" is just the Nictus/Warshade version of John Smith, and there are a lot of them running around with that name. Then the players could all make Warshades named Romulus Stripperus, Romulus Automechanicus, Romulus Cafeteriaworkerus, Romulus Taxlawyerus, Romulus Hotdogstreetvendoricus, etc.

The Nictus wasn't named Romulus. The Nictus that merged with Romulus Augustus was, if it was anyone we'd seen in canon before and the writers want to choose the most obvious (and cheesy) option, most likely Dirge of Entropy, the one that would later merge with Ridolfo Uzziano, a.k.a. Requiem.

As for whether similar names are enough to create a "viable" connection...well, that's where we came in.

I suggest you reread this thread if you think that's what it's claiming.

If Romulus' are not connected then it does strike me as sloppy bollock dropping by the Loremasters of the Game.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

A Nictus merged with a host is still referred to as a Nictus, unless it is a Warshade. Romulus Augustus is a Nictus who contains a Nictus. And once again, it's not just a case of similar names. It's a case of two Nictus hosts with the same name, who are counterintuitively unrelated. Don't split hairs with me, young man, and don't try to dismiss the argument by ignoring half the information.

First off, would you even be asking that question if they had two different names?

I mean, no one would ever say "Gee, what's the point in having Lady Jane and Maria Jenkins be two separate characters?"

Secondly, it serves the purpose of telling their respective stories. Each Romulus has his own part in the lore and merging them doesn't really fit with the stories the devs are trying to tell. It serves the purpose of having two completely different characters instead of one. It gives twice as many possibilities since now the characters can be written how ever the devs want instead of having to always consider, ohh gee, well Romulus USED to be this way, how would we explain why he is so different now etc.

Well, no. If they had different names this never would have come up.

But as Warshades are REFORMED Nictus and we face a Nictus VILLAIN in the PAST with the same name as a Warshade HERO in the PRESENT some of us feel that it would be much cooler if these two guys actually had some sort of connection as opposed to simply being the Devs using the same name twice.

IMO-- and just IMO--I think the story would be much better if we actually got to see IN GAME a Nictus go from Villain to Hero. (If I were in charge, there would be an Ouroboros TF where you help reform the Nictus Romulus in yet ANOTHER time so he becomes a hero that helps you in the final mission of the TF, but that's just me.)

You may not agree. That's fine. But some of us do feel there's potential for a good story that the Devs are ignoring here.

If you mean you think Cimerora isn't totally accurate history wise, then I have to say that I don't really think it's meant to be

*points at sig - Kheldian backstory guide*

Shadowstar, the Warshade contact, specifically - the Kheldian has been around since at least ancient Egypt. The host, no - in fact, part of the story arc revolves around the current Shadowstar's daughter being slated to be "the next Shadowstar."

And no, it is not stated that Nictus (or Warshades) have a shorter lifespan. Their experiments that turned them INTO Nictus were meant to extend the lifespan from the short natural Kheldian lifespan, not least from siphoning it from other Kheldians - but there's nothing there about it being shortened itself (barring war, weakness from Cyst travel, etc.)

As far as the name - the NPC is named Romulus Augustus before becoming Nictus. That's all we have to refer to him as in any case just *after* the merge - he doesn't suddenly say "I am now Biggus!" or some such. While I wouldn't mind seeing a progression over time, there's no reason to say the name's "anything but similar." It'd be like me insisting the Hispanic father living a few miles away named Jesus is the same person the Christian faith is based around.

See my Guides and Tutorials

In what way do you think it's bad? Like so you think we shouldn't time travel that far from the modern day period of the rest of the game? Or do you mean the 5th Column shouldn't be there? Or something else?

I love the zone - time traveling Nazis building superpowered giant war robots in the distant past after allying with alien-possessed Romans is cool by default

Ah, but that brings us to the crux of the matter...

Has anyone ever *seen* Manticore and Nemesis at the same time? <.< >.>

Well, we've certainly seen a version of Manticore built by Nemesis

It's been a while since I did the ITF, but doesn't Romulus actually say "I am Nictus!" after he's infused with the power in the cutscene?

Maybe he's a Nictus named Nictus.

Yeah, Shadowstar does indicate her hosts change from time to time, but Requiem's lifespan has been extended by SOMETHING-- he's pretty spry for a guy who'd have to be close to a century in age.

Okay just checked the Paragon Wiki entry on Kheldians. It indicates in there that at unbonded Peacebringer lives for about 10 years; Nictus possibly only for 5. (Knew I had seen that somewhere), and that it appears that the hosts obtain a longer lifespan as well.

Let's take your example a bit further and say that your Hispanic neighbor is walking on water and turning water into wine, then might you find it a little bit of a coincidence that his name is Jesus?

If the Romulus hero that we fought in COV was a BS/Shield Scrapper or a Fire/Devices blaster then no one would say, "Oh, these two have to be related somehow!"

But Romulus is a Warshade, a reformed Nictus. Don't you find it a bit anticlimatic that the Nictus Romulus and Warshade Romulus have NOTHING to do with each other?

And if you don't, that's fine. None of us are saying, "OMG! The Devs suck 'cause they used the same name twice for two different characters!"

We're saying that we think the story would be better if they were the same guy.

And that's the point we're making. We KNOW they aren't. We're saying that we think they SHOULD be.

And I think that's my final word on the subject.

Not really, no.

And I don't think it would really change the story much at all. At most, it would add a paragraph of text that most players wouldn't read, or a line of dialogue (or maybe even a whole mission) with Romulus the Warshade which checks that you have the Temporal Strife badge. "Hmm... I... remember... you... So long ago..."

It doesn't change much.