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However it does not take much to interpret one as the other, after all where is the line where I undertake a mission best suited to me say:|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Please note that "Farming" and "Exploiting" are not the same thing.
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F/K Controller farming BM;Demons with S/L capped res or S/L softcapped DEF?
You can either interpret that as an intelligent way to fight these foes or you could on a very small and difficult arguement say that is exploiting these mobs.
Of course there are distinctions between breaking the game such as the MM farm, and a farmer doing the old-stye missions.
Fury
I see farming as "I need Arcane Salvage for a recipe, I do a mission that has the salvage, I repeat it until I get the drop, everything else is sold unless I need it." Once I have the piece I need, I stop. But that is more accurately called "camping" in most games, except that in CoH I can't wait for respawns. Once I get the item, or verify that there's nothing left to kill, I stop or repeat the mission to get all the mobs back. The XP or Influence I get from the mission is none of my concern, which is why I play AE missions lately... tickets are very useful as long as it's not common salvage.
Some players don't see a distinction between Farming or Exploits. I'm not one of them: Personally, I see it as "It's your $15." GM's and Dev's warned you that missions that are questionable in raising your risk/reward ratio may get you banned. If you want to risk it, fine, but know there is ample warning out there about this behavior and if you're caught, I'm not going to comfort or condemn you.
Preaching about this to folks is a waste of my money and time, so I don't. (As to why I'm writing this at all, I'm just sharing my perspective... Haven't read anything sounding like it in this thread, so I thought I'd pipe in.)
Luckilly i'm psychic in real life so I'm able to guess how efficiently the developers want me to play the game.
I feel sorry for all the none telepathic people who play this game. You guys are screwed. You have no way of knowing what is / isn't allowed. You just have to guess. 
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Labelling dev-created content as "farm" or "exploit" is really just semantics. In terms of the definition that matters (i.e. will it get you banned), I would have to think that if the devs considered these missions to be exploits then they'd have changed them long ago. The AE exploits have all been patched at the earliest opportunity, so there's no reason to think that the devs would allow these oft-farmed missions to continue to exist if they felt there was a real problem with them.
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Originally Posted by Wondering_Fury
However it does not take much to interpret one as the other, after all where is the line where I undertake a mission best suited to me say:
F/K Controller farming BM;Demons with S/L capped res or S/L softcapped DEF? You can either interpret that as an intelligent way to fight these foes or you could on a very small and difficult arguement say that is exploiting these mobs. Of course there are distinctions between breaking the game such as the MM farm, and a farmer doing the old-stye missions. Fury |
Nice..."lets's create a system that our players can easily exploit and then we will ban them".
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Yes. Because Players are all mindless drones with no self-control or ability to think for themselves.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
Nice..."lets's create a system that our players can easily exploit and then we will ban them".
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Anyone who over-exploited this latest bug, especially after what happened with the Mito bans and Positrons address over it is a bit dim IMO and probably shouldn't be allowed onto the Internet by themselves.
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No, I get what your saying...but I mean, if they know it's able to be exploited, then why don't they fix it?
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Yes. Because Players are all mindless drones with no self-control or ability to think for themselves.
Anyone who over-exploited this latest bug, especially after what happened with the Mito bans and Positrons address over it is a bit dim IMO and probably shouldn't be allowed onto the Internet by themselves. |
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Erm, didn't they just do that?|
Originally Posted by Vitality
No, I get what your saying...but I mean, if they know it's able to be exploited, then why don't they fix it?
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The latest exploit wasn't even anything to do with the MA really, it was more to do with the change to Pets so they persist. It's very, very hard to spot interactions like this sometimes, especially in something as complex as a full MMO.
Given that the powers that be don't want to turn the MA into an empty wilderness and a waste of 1.5 issues worth of content how would you go about fixing it?
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I must rebuke that while I don't argue with anything you've said, I am merely stating that there is a blur between the two - in my opinion of course. However I am detracting from the point at hand.|
Originally Posted by Redoubtable
Labelling dev-created content as "farm" or "exploit" is really just semantics. In terms of the definition that matters (i.e. will it get you banned), I would have to think that if the devs considered these missions to be exploits then they'd have changed them long ago. The AE exploits have all been patched at the earliest opportunity, so there's no reason to think that the devs would allow these oft-farmed missions to continue to exist if they felt there was a real problem with them.
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I completely agree with Carni's points.
Fury
The devs cannot catch everything, but you can bet your bippy that OTHER people will be more than happy to find the exploits and use them!
This is a lot like Fight Club, "Welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club".
Some people seem to think there is no place for farming or pling in this game, yet when AE came out there were more farm arcs than anything else. When this lastest pl exploit came out it's amazing how many people were doing it, wasn't there like a ton of RWZ instances on both freedom and virtue? It's human nature, if there is an easy way to do something people will do it!
Yee Haw yall!
The majority of veteran players find it more fun to exploit the system rather than play through outdated and unimaginative mission designs that follow the same predictable patterns.
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Didn't stop them from turning PvP into an empty wilderness and nine issues worth of time.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Given that the powers that be don't want to turn the MA into an empty wilderness and a waste of 1.5 issues worth of content how would you go about fixing it?
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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They do - there have been two very recent fixes/nerfs to cut down the AE exploiting |
Originally Posted by Vitality
No, I get what your saying...but I mean, if they know it's able to be exploited, then why don't they fix it?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
PEOPLE DON'T NEED EXPLOITS.
Find me, or any other good farmer that can run +3 or +4 x8 content in the game. Offer them a fair amount of inf. to PL you.
I've been given up to 1 bil inf to take someone to 50. Sound like alot? Well, think about how many AE ticket rolls you'll get in 50 levels or how many purple chances you'd get in PI.
Although i thought that was kinda high, the guy said he didnt care cause he bought inf all the time. Personally, id never do that, but if he chooses to then that's on him.
But running at +3 or 4 x8 can get you to mid 30's in a few runs. I'm on Justice. Hit me up if you want to get PL'd. I don't need exploits. I just fly through mobs like a champ.
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When I read this, I thought you were onto something. Then I realised you seemed to be suggesting that people still need powerlevelling.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
PEOPLE DON'T NEED EXPLOITS.
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People don't need either. They can want as much as they want, but they certainly don't need. I've been around since issue four or so, and I'm still playing characters up at their own regular pace.
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You're right. We dont need to play this game either but we do. Everyone has their own thing. Kudos to you if thats how you like to play.
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Originally Posted by StormSurvivor
When I read this, I thought you were onto something. Then I realised you seemed to be suggesting that people still need powerlevelling.
People don't need either. They can want as much as they want, but they certainly don't need. I've been around since issue four or so, and I'm still playing characters up at their own regular pace. |
I wish I could ban people for playing AE.
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Sick burn.|
Originally Posted by P_Spiner
The majority of veteran players find it more fun to exploit the system rather than play through outdated and unimaginative mission designs that follow the same predictable patterns.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
I wish I could ban people for playing AE.
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You sound like a car salesman... "Need a level 50 and can't seem to get one, or it's taking you too long"? "No problem"! "Just bring a large amount of inf and we will get you to 50 fast"!!! "Here at Sparky's PL Emporium"! "Level 50's when YOU want them"!!! |
Originally Posted by eryq2
PEOPLE DON'T NEED EXPLOITS.
Find me, or any other good farmer that can run +3 or +4 x8 content in the game. Offer them a fair amount of inf. to PL you. I've been given up to 1 bil inf to take someone to 50. Sound like alot? Well, think about how many AE ticket rolls you'll get in 50 levels or how many purple chances you'd get in PI. Although i thought that was kinda high, the guy said he didnt care cause he bought inf all the time. Personally, id never do that, but if he chooses to then that's on him. But running at +3 or 4 x8 can get you to mid 30's in a few runs. I'm on Justice. Hit me up if you want to get PL'd. I don't need exploits. I just fly through mobs like a champ. |
While it's true, exploits are not needed... It's not about need, it's about want, and when exploits do pop up people want to use them to get their toons to 50 as fast as possible...
If they get caught, and they get banned, then that is the risk they take and so be it!
Your way there is no risk of that, and the only people you upset are the people that hate AE babies running around with 50's that people like you helped get there. Personally It doesn't bother me, if they pay you for a service then so be it. I have seen more than a few high level vets running around just as clueless as some AE babies so....
For the record...
You running your champ, pling someone in reg content such as BM/Demon farm or any AE content that is not concidered a exploit, doesn't even come close to an exploit run such as the latest Ign Monster run using MM pets... in XP/INF/PRESTIGE or whatever else you get in a AE mish. People on freedom paid plers 1 bil to get their toon from 1-50 in 2 hours or less
Again, your way is much slower and safer, and you do get access to purple drops.
guess it comes down to what people want and what risks they are willing to take.
Yee Haw yall
Have to agree with Old. People want what they want and they want it now!
There are great guides on making money using WW and some of them do work, yet people don't want to hear about having to wait. They want their toon uber now! They want purples now, or whatever else for their toon! The same goes for leveling, I want my toon to be 50 now, F the content and learning about the game first!!! These people will take the risk and not care, and if they do get caught atleast one will happen quick, their account getting banned!
It's better to save the Mystery, than surrender to the secret...
How can you get banned for something that is wrong with the game? You play the game and find a way to lvl fast in game not using any kind of trainer or editor and get banned. I just do not understand I guess. I have played many roleplaying games and every one has a place or a monster that is way over the norm. why cant we have that here? Why; for players that play only a few hrs a week it takes a lot of time to reach 50.
kids playing at ages 6 - 10 won't ever make 50 without help. I dont know something to look at maby.
"kids playing at ages 6-10" should not be playing a T-rated game without adult supervision.
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In my opinion, if you download a virus into the game that allows you to get a certain amount of xp/tickets/infl., etc., THAT is an exploit. You're breaking the rules, and your account should be banned. However, if you create a MA mission based upon whatever tools are there (that you did NOT create), HOW is that an exploit? It's like going to a buffet, and you're told you're not allowed to eat certain foods they put out because they tasted too good and people kept eating them. I just wish we could play without having these threats made-- because everything in the game is what was put there by them and not the players.
I understand the prices in WW's are insane nowadays, and many people who want to get the best recipes are either having to farm, or contact gagorra.com. I don't blame them. How else are they supposed to get $300+ million for 1 recipe?
It just seems to me that AE is getting nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, to the point they might have to call a pesticide company to get the crickets out of it soon 
Oh look! A fruit basket!!
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Let's go with this food analogy. Some people don't eat cookies at all, some people eat them occasionally, and some people eat them a lot. Because they eat so many cookies, more and more people realize there is a market for cookies, so they make more and more of them and market them more and more aggressively.|
Originally Posted by Snugs
However, if you create a MA mission based upon whatever tools are there (that you did NOT create), HOW is that an exploit? It's like going to a buffet, and you're told you're not allowed to eat certain foods they put out because they tasted too good and people kept eating them. I just wish we could play without having these threats made-- because everything in the game is what was put there by them and not the players.
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Next thing you know, there are cookies and cookie advertising all over the place. You have to go past the isle of cookies in the grocery store to get to stuff that isn't cookies (and the AE is a very disorganized grocery store. The fruit isn't all sorted out in the produce section. You have to search for it among the cookies.) The people who don't like cookies at all complain about the prevalence of cookies. The people who eat too many develop health problems. Then the government steps in, tells us people are too unhealthy, and bans cookies.
The health nuts rejoice. The people who ate too many cookies complain for a while, then realize they can have ice cream instead. The proceed to gorge on ice cream. Meanwhile, you have a bunch of responsible, healthy people who still enjoy a cookie every once in a while, but now can't have one.
I want a cookie.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
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If you find yourself on a team and all they doing is the same mission more then once then it's a farming mission and might be getting farmed for exploits.
How come I got Jeff Foxworthy telling "You might be a Exploiter/Farmer if..." Jokes running in my head?
The devs frown upon farming, and have stated that farm missions listed in AE can be removed without warning, deleting the slot it was stored in, and some egregious farms outside AE have been adjusted to make them less farmable, like the timer, and ranged attacks on the "Puppy Farm", or the XP reduction for "Family Earth", but farming in general is not a bad thing.
Likewise, doing something that is classified "an exploit" is not going to get you banned. Do it once and realize it's not supposed to work that way, or a couple times even, and retribution is unlikely. Do it a few times to figure out exactly what it is and how it works, then file a bug report, and you will be fine, and maybe even get Bug Hunter out of the deal.
It's when you combine the two, and begin farming an exploit, that you risk a warning, deleted character, or ban/temp ban.
@Roderick