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Really? I would have thought that a fair number of the Controller sets would have worked. |
Originally Posted by xhris
Only elemental sets come close, but they are not good enough for a pure wizard toon.
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I was a bit hesitand about it being so origin-specific, but so are Traps(Natural/Tech) and Willpower(Natural - judging from its description). |
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Yes, they would. Sort of. You can be a wizard that messes with ppl heads, or with very forces of gravity and summon a levitating orb rp'ed as a spirit of some sort, but so can a mutant right next to you. That is whats missing. Something magical. Like runestones, magical seals, glowing **** everywhere. Forget about Robotics and try to make a inventor MM. So what do you do?? You RP you everyday thugs to be some sort of advanced cyborg, complete with synthetic skin. Not even close to an army of bulky robots, doing their lil noises and shooting lasers at their enemies.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Really? I would have thought that a fair number of the Controller sets would have worked.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Traps? Also think Devices, AR, and Robots.
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The only issue is making it visually appealing for every player who wants to play a wizard. Do you imagine wizards having semi-tangible runes appearing at their hands when they cast spells? Or do they -just- cast the spell?
So do we use Dethek runes? Actual runes from Scandinavia? Mu, CoT, or Banished Pantheon runes? The same style of runes the Patron Power Pool sets use? Does it float over the ground or is it like the Legacy Chain rune traps, flat on the surface? Won't always be obvious on uneven ground as parts or even all of the debuff is hidden below ground.
SOME of this problem could be ameliorated with powerset customization and multiple designs of rune or floating rock to choose from. For example I might want floaty rune about my character rather than the orbiting stone.
And then you get into the -balance- issue of having four ground target area of effect powers which, by the way, a player can place from around corners. Don't believe me? Grab an earth controller or dom, get Quicksand, and try it yourself. No line of sight needed. It could quickly get out of hand as you place AoE after AoE without ever being in any real danger.
If they were to put such a powerset in the game I would kindly ask the devs to work on powerset customization for the elemental blast sets that Defenders can choose from to allow for more "Magic" options and appearances. Namely having fire/Ice/Electric/Energy blast swap out the current particle effects and animated projectiles with rune-clusters and the like.
-Rachel-
i think what most poeple want for a "wizard" is to use a staff as a weapon (kind of like some of the CoT mages (force mage, life mage, ect)
the powerset he was proposing was a little more magic themed, i could see how fire or ice blast, ect could be "themed" to be a magic blast, but without a wizard staff, conceptually it doesnt work out right
What I've been considering for a while is a set that looks like a Blast set (Either an actual Blast set or a Control set where the effect comes streaming from the caster), but based on an item.
Have the emission point for all the powers be about a 12-18 inches above/forward of the caster's hand, and have the hand holding an item, (think ala Assault Rifle) with the item being a Wand.
Using Weapon Customization, have the item swappable between a wand, a staff held midway (allowing the extra length to be below the hand, rather than above) or a Sci-Fi Ray Gun to allow for the other origins to be more at ease.
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You can RP anything. My Super Strength/Willpower Brute is an android -- how else is he gonna get Psionic protection without actual armor like Dark or Stone? And hell, you could even have a Magic-origin techno-mage who uses Traps/Devices along with a blast set to represent the magic.
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Originally Posted by xhris
I was a bit hesitant at first about it being so origin-specific, but so are Traps(Natural/Tech) and Willpower(Natural - judging from its description).
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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While we have something very similar in game already (this), I imagive something similar to this.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
The only issue is making it visually appealing for every player who wants to play a wizard. Do you imagine wizards having semi-tangible runes appearing at their hands when they cast spells? Or do they -just- cast the spell?
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
So do we use Dethek runes? Actual runes from Scandinavia? Mu, CoT, or Banished Pantheon runes? The same style of runes the Patron Power Pool sets use? Does it float over the ground or is it like the Legacy Chain rune traps, flat on the surface? Won't always be obvious on uneven ground as parts or even all of the debuff is hidden below ground.
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As for the ground hiding the circle/sigil, I dont see why this is a bigger problem than my Triage Beacon, that when placed next to a wall, emmits an aura on the wall. Maybe they put some magical symbols around those affected to make palyers's life easier.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
SOME of this problem could be ameliorated with powerset customization and multiple designs of rune or floating rock to choose from. For example I might want floaty rune about my character rather than the orbiting stone.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
And then you get into the -balance- issue of having four ground target area of effect powers which, by the way, a player can place from around corners. Don't believe me? Grab an earth controller or dom, get Quicksand, and try it yourself. No line of sight needed. It could quickly get out of hand as you place AoE after AoE without ever being in any real danger.
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In teams, placing so many location aoes can be really slow, when compared to other debuff sets.
Finally, thats where lengthy yet spectacular animations kick in, to reduce your AoE spamming capabilities. Animations like Ghost Widow's Soul Storm are both spectacular and conceptually right.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
If they were to put such a powerset in the game I would kindly ask the devs to work on powerset customization for the elemental blast sets that Defenders can choose from to allow for more "Magic" options and appearances. Namely having fire/Ice/Electric/Energy blast swap out the current particle effects and animated projectiles with rune-clusters and the like.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
You can RP anything. My Super Strength/Willpower Brute is an android -- how else is he gonna get Psionic protection without actual armor like Dark or Stone? And hell, you could even have a Magic-origin techno-mage who uses Traps/Devices along with a blast set to represent the magic.
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I will soon post a detailed description about how I imagine each power's visuals if anyone is interested.
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You describe a more medieval wizard, sort of like Merlin and Gandalf. I guess this is viable solution too. Also, IIRC, there is a crate outside BM vans that has 3-4 staffs and wands on it. Devs can use these; it would make me really happy.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i think what most poeple want for a "wizard" is to use a staff as a weapon (kind of like some of the CoT mages (force mage, life mage, ect)
the powerset he was proposing was a little more magic themed, i could see how fire or ice blast, ect could be "themed" to be a magic blast, but without a wizard staff, conceptually it doesnt work out right |
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That's actually part of the background. Run the Origins arc. Essentially, everything comes from the same source, so it's hardly surprising that everyone can do everything.|
Originally Posted by xhris
You can be a wizard that messes with ppl heads, or with very forces of gravity and summon a levitating orb rp'ed as a spirit of some sort, but so can a mutant right next to you.
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Origin-specific powersets don't actually exist, and they aren't going to start including them. While some sets lend themselves to some origins more obviously than others, they aren't specific.
e.g. There's no reason why you can't have an Energy/Devices Mutant Blaster. The mutant power is energy blasts, supplanted with gadgets.
Willpower is a perfectly good Magic origin set, Mutants could have enhanced neural systems which provide the effect, Science could have done the same, implants could provide a tech alternative.
It's all a matter of conception.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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CoT arent really medieval per se, but all of the lower lvl lieutenant ranked CoT use staves of some sort (another example is midnighters, ALL of them use staves except for the few ghosts and such)|
Originally Posted by xhris
You describe a more medieval wizard, sort of like Merlin and Gandalf. I guess this is viable solution too. Also, IIRC, there is a crate outside BM vans that has 3-4 staffs and wands on it. Devs can use these; it would make me really happy.
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midnighters are not medieval in the least but use arcane relics to give them powers (hence the staves, ect)
I just have one thing to say: Vanguard Wizard EAT?
It's an interesting looking set. The "toggle location AoE" is a cool idea, and I can even imagine how to accomplish it using the current system: The toggle periodically summons a pseudopet (all location AoEs now summon a pseudopet); the pseudopet applies a debuff, and dies within an appropriate time period for the upcoming pet to replace it. Storing the location to place the next pseudopet would probably be the most complex part of creating such a power.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I was just thinking this as I was scrolling down reading the new posts in this thread. You can make an RP justification for just about every powerset in the game, save a few exceptions, but I can't imagine a way to do the same for a set whose very definition of magical spells -- unless you tie it to an EAT whose origin is always Magic. Only thing with the Vanguard Wizards, though, is that their origin would probably be Tech.
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Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
I just have one thing to say: Vanguard Wizard EAT?
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I usually just use the blackwand, firing it off every now and then or running around with it to remind people who the wizard in the group is. Then I put it away.
I would like an 'elemental' set, though. I guess Dual Pistols is kind've close in that regard.
Maybe just call it something generic like 'Symbols' or 'Glyphs' sort of like 'Devices' and 'Traps' is generic. It doesn't say what *kind* of symbols or devices, so they can be natural, or scientific or something...however you want to justify it.
Whatever it's called, I just want them to be extremely flashy! Except instead of flashy animations (like Dual Pistols), we'll get flashy particle FX. I want big ol' glowing runes hovering above the ground, circle light effects to show the edge of the area of effect, etc.
Do you think it'd be possible to customize the symbols alone used in this set? How much work do you think that'd be? Like, if you wanted to use the CoT symbols or maybe various chest details as your symbols? The rest of the FX would be the same, just that one portion of it. Impossible?
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mutant-->Scarlet Witch|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I was just thinking this as I was scrolling down reading the new posts in this thread. You can make an RP justification for just about every powerset in the game, save a few exceptions, but I can't imagine a way to do the same for a set whose very definition of magical spells -- unless you tie it to an EAT whose origin is always Magic. Only thing with the Vanguard Wizards, though, is that their origin would probably be Tech.
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technology-->Doctor Doom (well sort of, but you get the picture)
natural--> "[...]or perhaps you are not human at all, and possess powers natural to your race." -official game info
Well, even if thats not enough, you can always trust this game's playerbase to come up with all sort of original concepts. I don't see why a set like this would be more restrictive than Traps, Devices, Robotics, Demon Summoning.
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Originally Posted by xhris
I will soon post a detailed description about how I imagine each power's visuals if anyone is interested.
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1. Spell of Renewal
Identical to ccemote Cast. You thrust out one arm towards your targeted ally and an aura emits from him. All allies affected glow, like those affected by Healing Aura/Radiant Aura.
2. Circle of Twilight
Both arms extend, like ccemote Vanguard Sigil. White light emits from your right hand, black from your left and, after a flash of white and black light, a rotating glowing magic circle is created on the floor. The circle features both the sun and the moon. Something like this. Also this.
3. Earth Sigil
(Soul Mastery/)Soul Storm animation. Character hovers over ground, a orange glowing sigil is created at selected location; a brown colored mist, like the one used in Earth Control's visuals eimits briefly to represent the element of earth. Sigils are less complex than Circles, feuturing only a subol of the element in the middle, surrounded by magic/runic symbols.
4. Lunar Sigil [Toggle: Ranged (Location AoE), Foe Res(all), -Regen]
Identical to Earth Sigil. A purple sigil is created and a purple-white glow (the unique color used in Soul Mastery/Soul Tentacles) emits briefly to represent moonlight.
5. Concealing Mist [Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe ToHit, Perception, Range]
Mist is temporarily created around the selected foe, in a AoE radius. Basic mist visuals like the ones used for Steamy Mist, however with a glittering effect of blue-green flickering particles, like the high-res ones used for Cruo Ammunition. (I'm not talking about the light beams, but for the glowing particles around them.)
6. Orb of Protection [Toggle: PBAoE, Team +DEF(All), +Res(Disorient, Hold, Immobilize)]
Uses Minerals visual from Stone Armor, but instead of three pebbles, you get a single orb the size of a Seeker Drone, which slowly orbits around you.
7. Circle of Lust [Place Circle: PBAoE, Foe Confuse, Def(All)]
Like Circle of Twilight; creates a rotating deep-red circle around you.
8. Water Sigil [Toggle: Ranged (Location AoE), Foe Knockdown, -SPD, -Jump]
Like the other sigils, only light blue and a white/light-blue splashing effect (like Leviathan Mastery) is briefly used after sigil's placement to represent
water element.
9. Mystic Rune
You summon a floating rune (magic stone), much like Force Field Generation. A floating stone, with blue glowing runic sumbols engraved on it appears and stays suspended in the air for the duration of the power. The Rune can follow you around, like FFG.
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Demon Summoning|
Originally Posted by xhris
Especially for Masterminds, it would be a nice set to pair with Demon Summoning.
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It's official. Demons get magic circles/sigils for their summons. Now, maybe my suggestions are much more relevant.
Yes, I want to hear more discussion about this too now! Maybe I'll post up a set of my own to keep the discussion going.
heh i am sure they will get around to a magic them control set or Blaster/Corrupter or something.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
I participated in a Supernatural Zone event the other day and noticed the magical circles appearing around the banners. Well, between these and the animations used for demon summoning, I can really see some potential for a visually pleasant set.
I am heavily against an origin-specific powerset, and Demon Summoning has already sparked controversy about its use of Runes. BABs defends, but I agree with the crowd (this time around). In your case, the runes are what bugs me. Unless you want to form the entire powerset around runic power (which would be a concept no less specific than the ability to form spines and quills out of your bones), then I say get rid of the runes entirely and go with Final Fantasy style flashy but non-specific magic.
In fact, you know what would be cool? A summoning powerset that worked like a blast set, like how summons work in the Marvel vs. Capcom game, specifically Captain Commando's cadre of sidekicks. For instance, you have a power that says "Call Ripper," but instead of summoning a creature to walk around and fight by your side, an ugly demon pops out of a "gate," delivers a nasty, flaming claw swipe to the enemy, then hops back out. Another could be "Call Imps," which would cause little nasty critters to come out of the ground and hang onto the enemy's legs, ala Blackheart's heavy kick demons. There's potential there.
The key here is to make the effects very flashy and outworldly, such that you really couldn't see them as anything other than abstract magic, but without including scrolls, staffs, incantations, runes or anything of the sort for those of us who want to use the set for other means. Demon summoning gets sort of a free pass, since the really magicy things are on a long recharge or aren't used very often. For powers you'll be reusing constantly, this WILL grate.
And again, I don't mind a "Runic" powerset, as long as you focus it around the power of the runes themselves, which can have a much broader interpretation than "magic runes" as a subset does.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I've been wanting a powerset like this since day one. A good chunk of my characters are magic based, and I'm sure I would have a lot of fun with this one. 
Another thing that might remedy our need to feel more magical is *optional* weapons. Give us the option to have our characters with ranged powersets carry a magic wand, and change the animation so that we wave our wand to shoot a fireball instead of shooting it from our hands. It could even be taken a step further...give us optional arm-guns for a tech feel, and other things of that sort. Just a thought.
Virtue - @Kabuto & @Kabutops
Main heroes:
Dark/Psy/Psy Defender
Grav/Storm/Power Controller
Ice/Storm/Ice Controller
Plant/Rad/Psi Controller
Earth/Rad/Earth Controller
Main Villains:
Ice/Cold/Sharks Corruptor
Elec/Shield Brute
Fortunata/Soul Widow
I use Energy / Energy as my main's Mystic Power set. I t works quite well. Granted I'd like all my powers to have a similar effect as the Runic Ward Temp power gained in Croatoa. (Using a different Rune Symbol for Each Power Blast). But I'm still happy with the way she turned out for the most Part.
Being a magic/wizardry fan (among other things), I always wanted to make a wizard toon on CoX. The only problem is there is no powerset that can pass as magic spells (I know some people color radiation emission black or sth and pretent to be curses; I do it too, but still there is something missing). Only elemental sets come close, but they are not good enough for a pure wizard toon. I had this idea for a pure magic buff/debuff powerset as Defender Primary and Controller/Corruptor/Mastermind Secondary. Especially for Masterminds, it would be a nice set to pair with Demon Summoning.
Judging from almost every newly added powerset, innovation is a necessity (Ammo Swap, Combo system), so I designed this set to be the first to feature Location Toggles and a TAoE heal.
I’m still a bit hesitant about Location Toggles, as it’s likely most people will forget to turn them off after battle, only noticing it as they aggro the next mob. I'll just wait for your feedback on this.
Tl;Dr: Check out a new powerset
1. Spell of Renewal [Ranged (AoE), Team Heal]
Pretty straightforward. Target your ally, a AoE aura emits from him/her, healing everyone within range. Heals more than Healing Aura, but less than Heal Other.
2. Circle of Twilight [Place Circle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Energy/ Negative)]
Similar to Caltrops. However you dont get to choose location like caltrops; the circle is automatically created around you. Of course, its immobile, much like caltrops.
3. Earth Sigil [Toggle: Ranged (Location AoE), Foe –DMG , –Rech, –Res(all)]
Toggle on and a location pointer pops out. You select a location, and a AoE sigil is created on the ground. All foes within the sigil are debuffed, for as long as they stay within it, much like certain TA powers. However, there is no specific duration, as long as you have endurance left to pay the cost.
4. Lunar Sigil [Toggle: Ranged (Location AoE), Foe –Def(all), –ToHit, –Regen]
Identical to Earth Sigil, just another debuff flavour.
5. Concealing Mist [Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe –ToHit, –Perception, –Range]
Similar to Lingering Radiation
6. Orb of Protection [Toggle: PBAoE, Team +DEF(All), +Res(Disorient, Hold, Immobilize)]
Function like Dispersion Bubble, while using the Minerals visual from Stone Armor, but instead of three pebbles, you get a single orb the size of a Seeker Drone, which slowly orbits around you.
7. Circle of Lust [Place Circle: PBAoE, Foe Confuse, –Def(All)]
You place it like Circle of Twilight, but function like Poison Trap. However its always active, unlike Poison Trap; also, you get a confuse instead of hold.
8. Water Sigil [Toggle: Ranged (Location AoE), Foe Knockdown, -SPD, -Jump]
You activate it like the other sigils. Again just a different flavor. The knockdown is not autohit, the debuffs are.
9. Mystic Rune [Summon Rune: PBAoE, Team +Recovery, +End]
You summon a floating rune (magic stone), much like Force Field Generation. Stay inside its radius, to enjoy a nice recovery buff and a chance for a some instant endurance. I always thought this game could use another end replenishing power to go with (Kinetics/)Transferense.
I was a bit hesitant at first about it being so origin-specific, but so are Traps(Natural/Tech) and Willpower(Natural - judging from its description).