Cherry-picking powers from any set: example build
By
Ben_Arizona,
Posted on: 2010-03-08 21:24 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
What, no Against All Odds? 
I would've gone with Indomitable Will for mez protection; it doesn't cover immob but in granite form you're dang near immobile anyway, and it gives a little psionic defense.
No Footstomp? Fail.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Granite with three-slotted Swift is actually quite mobile. It's why I didn't go with Rooted for mez protection: that would have required additional power picks to speed up again.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
What, no Against All Odds?
I would've gone with Indomitable Will for mez protection; it doesn't cover immob but in granite form you're dang near immobile anyway, and it gives a little psionic defense. |
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Originally Posted by Starflier
No Footstomp? Fail.
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I don't know why you're going to use Granite. There are easier ways to achieve stupidly high levels of mitigation without flooring your damage and recharge. Instead you could run with some of the WP powers, and pick even more powerful ones inbetween. Like instead of IW (I don't know why you have IW if you have Granite anyway -- you even have Active Defense too; how much mez protect do you need?), take Integration. It doesn't give fear/confuse, but you get huge regen to go with it. Take something like Force Field Generator to get 16% DEF vs all for almost no endurance.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
1) Martial Arts: Storm Kick
1) Fiery Melee: Scorch 2) Electrical Melee: Charged Brawl 4) Willpower: High Pain Tolerance 6) Shield Defense: Active Defense 8) Willpower: Fast Healing 10) Devices: Targeting Drone 12) Willpower: Rise to the Challenge 14) Willpower: Quick Recovery 16) Invulnerability: Dull Pain 18) Invulnerability: Invincibility 20) Fitness: Swift 22) Fitness: Health 24) Fitness: Stamina 26) Teleportation: Recall Friend 28) Regeneration: Instant Healing 30) Teleportation: Teleport 32) Stone Armor: Granite Armor 35) Kinetics: Fulcrum Shift 38) Kinetics: Siphon Speed 41) Psionic Mastery: Indomitable Will 44) Psionic Mastery: Mind Over Body 47) Radiation Emission: Accelerate Metabolism 49) Speed: Hasten |
Anyway, you have all that mitigation and stuff but your actual damage output is really low. You just have minor to moderate damage attacks. You should look into extreme damage, short activation moves like Seismic Smash. Plus you'd waste time using powers like Active Defense and Siphon Speed all the time.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I picked Granite because it gives stupidly high levels of mitigation with just a single power pick. Fulcrum Shift more than cancels the damage penalty, while Siphon Speed, Accelerate Metabolism, and Hasten will put me a goodly way towards perma-hasten.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why you're going to use Granite. There are easier ways to achieve stupidly high levels of mitigation without flooring your damage and recharge.
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| Instead you could run with some of the WP powers, and pick even more powerful ones inbetween. Like instead of IW (I don't know why you have IW if you have Granite anyway -- you even have Active Defense too; how much mez protect do you need?), take Integration. It doesn't give fear/confuse, but you get huge regen to go with it. Take something like Force Field Generator to get 16% DEF vs all for almost no endurance. |
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| Anyway, you have all that mitigation and stuff but your actual damage output is really low. You just have minor to moderate damage attacks. You should look into extreme damage, short activation moves like Seismic Smash. Plus you'd waste time using powers like Active Defense and Siphon Speed all the time. |
It'd be more interesting if you stick to the AT structure of primary/secondary and start cherry picking powers from the Melee/Defense categories (if doing a Scrapper/Brute)
1.-Scorch
2.-Storm Kick
3.-Cobra Strike
4.-Siphon Life
5.-Calling the Wolf
6.-Soul Drain
7.-Fire Sword Circle
8.-Incinerate
9.-Lightning Rod
That's what I'd do for a Melee category set
Actually, as long as we're cherry-picking any powers we darn well please, why not use (as a top-of-the-head example) all of Bots except the personal attacks and Repair, all of Mercs except the personal attacks and Serum, all of Thugs except the personal attacks, Dispersion Bubble and Fulcrum Shift? That makes a nice 18 powers (primary and secondary).
Also, are we allowed to use non-APP powers to build our custom APP? If not we'll have to stick to a few personal defense toggles, but if we can then let's round it out with.. I dunno, let's say Force Field Generator, a couple good debuffs to help with AVs (Lingering Radiation and Benumb maybe?), and your travel power of choice.
Of course, our attack chain suffers somewhat.
Edit: Oh yeah, do we get an inherent too? Bodyguard mode is the obvious choice, and if we do then we might want to drop one of those debuffs for Taunt.
... no Quick Recovery?
Ed: no blaze?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I considered it, but I've run more active Masterminds without Stamina so it didn't seem necessary. I could be entirely wrong about how much end this guy would choke down, though, since I tend to think of end usage in terms of overall set end usage rather than specific powers when I'm working from the top of my head. Also, not even QR would be enough to get through the full summoning and equipping without stopping for breath. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
... no Quick Recovery?
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I think the real problems would be slot shortage and, of course, total framerate choke.
Counter-edit: I didn't take Blaze or, indeed, any attacks because I sort of figured our eighteen henchmen would have it pretty well covered. Plus Gang War for special occasions.
Not going to lay it all out like that but...
Fireball
Ice Armor
Fire Armor
QR
Hurdle, Health, Stamina
Shiver
Full Auto
eh, I've lost interest.
ETA: Oh, man, Obsidian Sheild. Divine Avalanche...
cherry-pick = make the baddest toon conceivable?
Blaze
Bitter Ice Blast
Statesman's FIst
Spawn Recluses Towers
Hami Powers
Kill Monster
some pets
some defensive messures
...
Yeah, loosing interest too. I do understand the "I'd like to just see how it would work" mentality.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
Blaze
Fire Ball
Foot Stomp
Fulcrum Shift
Eclipse
Energy Absorption
Invincibility
Rise to the Challenge
Integration
Drain Psyche
Dull Pain
High Pain Tolerance
Hasten
Siphon Speed
Quickness
Stygian Circle
and 8 other powers
The list gives capped: (Damage, Resists, Defense, Regen, HP), High Recharge (Perma Hasten), good attacks and the best heal in the game. I think that covers the tank-mage checklist. 
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8 other powers?|
Originally Posted by Krogoth
Blaze
Fire Ball Foot Stomp Fulcrum Shift Eclipse Energy Absorption Invincibility Rise to the Challenge Integration Drain Psyche Dull Pain High Pain Tolerance Hasten Siphon Speed Quickness Stygian Circle and 8 other powers The list gives capped: (Damage, Resists, Defense, Regen, HP), High Recharge (Perma Hasten), good attacks and the best heal in the game. I think that covers the tank-mage checklist. |
Venom Grenade
Radiant Infection
Ennervating Field
Freezing Rain
Envenom
Weaken
Transference
Benumb
So you can have all those caps and have enter a pack... Fulcrum Shift --> Freezing Rain --> Venom Grenade --> Foot Stomp --> Fireball.
If you are fighting an AV you can Slap on EF/RI, toss out Envenom/Weaken/Benumb when they are up and use Transference when you are low on Endurance. No need for specialty Single Target attacks for the AV. Just use Blaze and your AoEs.
I like the build I just poster in another thread.
It had:
Every henchmen power that MMs can get currently
One upgrade power for each type of henchmen
Assault
Maneuvers
Fulcrum Shift
and one other power.
This build assumes that by "Cherry Picking" you mean "take whatever you want whenever you want" since it ends up with a staggering 20 powers from primary pools.
Fun experiment. I tried it using ONLY Controller powers (ignoring secondaries altogether). Personally I think a Controller running Arctic Air and Hotfeet who opens with Seeds of Confusion while standing in Volcanic Gasses next to a Phantom Army is totally reasonable.
1) Mind: Dominate
2) Plant: AoE Immob
4) Mind: Levitate
6) Ice: Arctic Air
8) Plant: Seeds of Confusion
10) Earth: Stalagmites
12) Fire: Flashfire
14) Hurdle
16) Health
18) Illusion: Phantom Army
20) Stamina
22) Fire: Hot Feet
24) Hasten
26) Mind: Terrify
28) Earth: Volcanic Gasses
30) Plant: Carrion Creepers
32) Fire: Fire Imps
35) Mind: Mass Confusion
38) Super Speed
41) Fireball
44) Fireblast
47) Consume
49) Rise of the Phoenix (well why not?)
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Yours is almost certainly more effective than what I'd end up with on an all-control-power build. I don't think I could resist the temptation to use Greater Invisibility, Deceive, and Confuse to invisibly start bumfights at twice my usual speed, or to take every single pet and run around with a hilariously mismatched menagerie.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Fun experiment. I tried it using ONLY Controller powers (ignoring secondaries altogether). Personally I think a Controller running Arctic Air and Hotfeet who opens with Seeds of Confusion while standing in Volcanic Gasses next to a Phantom Army is totally reasonable.
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I have seen the true incarnation of glory.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
1.-Scorch
2.-Storm Kick 3.-Cobra Strike 4.-Siphon Life 5.-Calling the Wolf 6.-Soul Drain 7.-Fire Sword Circle 8.-Incinerate 9.-Lightning Rod |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Shoot, I can top that.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
Actually, as long as we're cherry-picking any powers we darn well please, why not use (as a top-of-the-head example) all of Bots except the personal attacks and Repair, all of Mercs except the personal attacks and Serum, all of Thugs except the personal attacks, Dispersion Bubble and Fulcrum Shift? That makes a nice 18 powers (primary and secondary).
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1) Call Thugs
1) Call Enforcer
2) Protector Bots
6) Spec Ops
8) Equip Thugs
12) Equip Robot
18) Equip Mercenary
26) Assault Bot
32) Commando
1) Healing Aura
2) Force Field Generator
4) Sonic Dispersion
10) Upgrade Equipment
16) Upgrade Robot
20) Tactical Upgrade
28) Dispersion Bubble
35) Phantom Army*
38) Fulcrum Shift
This way you get 15 pets (over twice as many as usual) but they're all ranged and all the most damaging and potent ones. Phantom Army is also available to add pet uniques and to alpha and take aggro. On top of that you get (using Defender numbers; I'd use a Defender base for this build for obvious reasons):
* +31.5% DEF (pet uniques round it off to +41.5% which bots and thugs will finish off)
* +23.8% RES (pet uniques round it off to 43.8%)
* Healing Aura for a high amount of HP back per click
* Fulcrum Shift
You could also take Maneuvers to soft-cap all your pets. And if we can customize epics too, I'd probably do something like:
41) Quickness
41) Siphon Speed
44) Accelerate Metabolism
47) World of Pain
That would add 50% recharge for myself, plus 20% for each siphon cast. This would make it easier to perma AM, WoP, and PA. WoP would add another 23.8% RES, putting my pets at a minimum of 67.6% RES.
So yes, let's allow players to cherry-pick powers.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You know, I love this idea so much that I felt like making one for every AT. Let this be a testament for how impossible this idea is and how incredibly overpowered it would be.
These are even all done with:
* Only in-AT sets (no SS powers for Scrappers, etc)
* No duplicates (BU comes at various levels for Blasters, but I can only have one)
* At the respective tier (Rage can only come at 18 for Brutes, and level 18 powers besides Rage can't be used if I already have Rage).
BLASTER
Primary:
1) Flares
1) Fire Blast
2) Fire Ball
6) Rain of Fire
8) Aim (Electric's Aim comes at 8)
12) Ice Storm
18) Blaze
26) Neutron Bomb
32) Rain of Arrows
Secondary:
1) Subdual (only 80ft immob)
2) Caltrops
4) Build Up (Energy)
10) Targeting Drone
16) Smoke Grenade
20) Drain Psyche
28) Power Boost
35) Boost Range
38) Psychic Shockwave
How to win: I have, what, the six most potent AoE powers all at once, while having the highest damaging attack chain for ST? I also get Aim, BU, super high accuracy, extra range, self-defense, and other misc stuff. Not the safest Blaster maybe, but should be able to unload on a spawn and have it die pretty much instantly.
CONTROLLER
Primary:
1) Spectral Wounds
1) Char
2) Roots
6) Arctic Air
8) Seeds of Confusion
12) Stalagmite
18) Phantom Army
26) Carrion Creepers
32) Fire Imps
Secondary:
1) Healing Aura
2) Heal Other
4) Accelerate Metabolism
10) Siphon Speed
16) Freezing Rain
20) Dispersion Bubble
28) Disruption Arrow
35) Sleet
38) Fulcrum Shift
How to win: How could I not win? I can deliver -60% DEF, -75% RES, I have Siphon Speed and AM to give myself recharge. Dispersion gives me status immunity and ~12% DEF. I also have Fulcrum Shift. I can keep whole spawns of enemies confused OR stunned as well as recharge floored, plus they might all be falling and getting knocked down. I have an extra attack, the fastest hold, the highest damage immobilize, and 6+ pets. I could perma PA so I never get attacked while there are creepers everywhere and imps dole out shifted damage. I can even support a team with the dispersion, debuffs, and heals, but I could probably just solo farm +2/x8 effortlessly.
DEFENDER
Primary:
1) Healing Aura
1) Deflection Shield
2) Accelerate Metabolism
6) Insulation Shield
8) Force Field Generator
12) Sonic Dispersion
18) Recovery Aura
26) Clarity
32) Fulcrum Shift
Primary:
1) Twilight Grasp
1) Radiation Infection
2) Darkest Night
6) Enervating Field
8) Freezing Rain
12) Poison Trap
18) Disruption Arrow
26) Sleet
32) Heat Loss
How two win: If you notice I did two primaries here. One for buffing and one for debuffing. Buffing has all of the DEF of normal FF (~39.5%) along with 23.8% RES. Between the stuff everyone gets something like mag 14-15 mez protect to basic things, and Clarity is there for immobilize, sleep, confuse, and fear (mag 13). Plus everyone gets AM, FS, all the end they could want, and I can heal them.
The debuff one, although looking problematic on end, can do -62.5% DMG, -50% ToHit, -91.25% DEF, -140% RES, -420% RECH, and -1000% regen in an AoE. Also all those guys are falling down and held/choking. So I can floor recharge, and hit rate, and regen, and make it so unslotted people can hit, more than double damage, and provide soft control. But also I can heal and debuff on single targets if I want to.
SCRAPPER
Primary:
1) Thunder Kick
1) Smite
2) Cremate
6) Build Up (Elec)
8) Thunder Strike
12) Confront (lols)
18) Fire Sword Circle
26) Soul Drain
32) Lightning Rod
Secondary:
1) High Pain Tolerance
2) Temp Invuln
4) Healing Flames
10) Indomitable Will
16) Rise to the Challenge
20) Quick Recovery
28) Invincibility
35) Shield Charge
38) Moment of Glory
How to win: Let's see, I have two huge damage bonuses and the two strongest attacks ever. Inbetween LR/SC I have two more powerful PBAoEs and the three bestest ST powers for the range they're in. For defense I have bonus HP, higher RES than WP with more defense, with a heal, and a way more powerful tier 9 that I can use all the time. So WP with higher RES/DEF and a heal.
TANKER
Primary:
1) High Pain Tolerance
1) Hoarfrost
2) Healing Flames
6) Indomitable Will
8) Rise to the Challenge
12) Quick Recovery
18) Lightning Reflexes
26) Energy Absorption
32) Granite Armor
How to win: I just went for absurdity of self-defense on this. Do I even need to explain it? I didn't bother with the attacks, but I can assure you it would have Siphon Life. Oh and Lightning Reflexes is there to help with the speed and recharge of Granite. And QR is there to get around the end issues. Yeah, let's just eliminate/reduce all the drawbacks of really powerful skills while we're at it. 
BRUTE
Primary:
1) Scorch
1) Smite
2) Jacob's Ladder
6) Spin
8) Thunder Strike
12) Taunt
18) Rage
26) Soul Drain
32) Foot Stomp
Secondary:
1) High Pain Tolerance
2) Temp Invuln
4) Healing Flames
10) Indomitable Will
16) Rise to the Challenge
20) Quick Recovery
28) Invincibility
35) Power Sink
38) One With the Shield
How to win: The secondary is only slightly different than the Scrapper version. It has a different tier 9, and since SC isn't as good on Brutes I gave them another way to manage their huge endurance issues for their primary powers. The primary? Well all a Brute really needs to farm is Rage and Foot Stomp, so let's add even more damage through Soul Drain, then add two more strong PBAoEs and a decent cone. I take a slight hit on redraw here, but it's worth it.
CORRUPTOR
Primary:
1) Shriek
1) Gloom
2) Irradiate
6) Aim (Ice)
8) Tenebrous Tentacles
12) Ice Storm
18) Siren's Song
26) Neutron Bomb
32) Blizzard
How to win: I already did buff and debuff combos with Defender, so for this I just went for a debuff primary. You could also build them to do damage, in which case it'd pretty much look like the Blaster version. But here's a debuffing one. On top of that, it's also pretty killer on AoE damage.
DOMINATOR
Primary:
1) Mesmerize
1) Char
2) Roots
6) Arctic Air
8) Seeds of Confusion
12) Stalagmite
18) Earthquake
26) Carrion Creepers
32) Fire Imps
Secondary:
1) Flares
2) Bone Smasher
4) Fire Breath
10) Havoc Punch
16) Psychic Scream
20) Drain Psyche
28) Seismic Smash
35) Ice Slash
38) Psychic Shockwave
How to win: Primary had to change two powers. The t1 is mostly just a reminder to skip it. I don't need an ST sleep, immob, or attack if I'm on a Dom like this. Had to lose Phantom Army sadly, but can just throw Earthquake in there. For secondary, I went all AoE damage. DP is there as a way to retain endurance. Can just take Soul Drain from epic for damage boosts. I have one powerful PBAoE, two cones, and a whole bunch of strong ST damage. I could take PB but honestly I wouldn't need it.
MASTERMIND
Primary:
1) Dark Blast
1) Call Thugs
2) Gloom
6) Equip Thugs
8) Life Drain
12) Call Enforcer
18) Gang War
26) Call Bruiser
32) Upgrade Equipment
Secondary:
1) Nullify Pain
2) Fire Shield
4) Darkest Night
10) Plasma Shield
16) Force Field Generator
20) Dispersion Bubble
28) World of Pain
35) Oil Slick Arrow
38) Dark Servant
How to win: Okay, this was probably the hardest one to do just because you can't really customize MMs much. So basically I just went for totally indestructable pets (and self). In addition to an AoE heal, pets get +31.8% DEF. With thug buffs and pet uniques all pets are soft-capped, and I need only take epic armor to soft cap S/L. Pets also get +23.8% RESfrom shields and we all share another 17.8% RES. So with uniques the pets have a minimum of 61.6% RES on top of being soft-capped. Plus I also debuff damage and accuracy, have a Dark Servant pet, and Oil Slick. In the event you could mix and match pets and the buffs still work, Assault Bot instead of Bruiser.
STALKER
Primary:
1) Thunder Kick
1) Smite
2) Jacob's Ladder
6) Assassin's Whatever
8) Build Up
12) Placate
18) Siphon Life
26) Thunder Strike
32) Lightning Rod
Secondary:
1) Hide
2) Ninja Reflexes
4) Danger Sense
10) Agile
16) Indomitable Will
20) Dodge
28) Energize
35) Power Sink
38) Moment of Glory
How to win: SR but with a heal/regen, better mez protect, and end management. Also a more usable/abusable tier 9. Not the most durable of the builds, but it's more durable than any existing Stalkers. For the primary, we get all the good out of Elec, but add Siphon Life and better ST damage attacks.
So yeah, let's go ahead and implement this right away!
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Too bad Mod08 nuked the thread started by whatshisface, I was having fun with that one
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I like to jump in the fray so for me,
Brute Class power and the following powers
High Pain Tolerance
Death Shroud
Lightning Field
Blazing Aura
Choking Cloud
Against All Odds
Rise to The Challenge
Fulcrum Shift
Burn
Hot Feet
Build Up
Combustion
Other stuff to round it out but mostly damage auras damage buffs and regen, lol
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i wonder why yellow1(jaundice1) didn't post in this thread?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Too bad Mod08 nuked the thread started by whatshisface, I was having fun with that one
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I think I made him cry.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
i wonder why yellow1(jaundice1) didn't post in this thread?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Every time I see a "pick powers from any set" thread come up, I've meant to put together a sample build to demonstrate how broken a build could be made. In designing the build, I've followed a few rules:
1) Common IOs only, no sets.
2) Powers that are clones of each other can't be stacked, so no taking both Energy Melee: Build Up and Fiery Melee: Build up.
3) Use the most powerful version of a power available, so, for example, use the tanker version of High Pain Tolerance rather than the scrapper version.
1) Martial Arts: Storm Kick
1) Fiery Melee: Scorch
2) Electrical Melee: Charged Brawl
4) Willpower: High Pain Tolerance
6) Shield Defense: Active Defense
8) Willpower: Fast Healing
10) Devices: Targeting Drone
12) Willpower: Rise to the Challenge
14) Willpower: Quick Recovery
16) Invulnerability: Dull Pain
18) Invulnerability: Invincibility
20) Fitness: Swift
22) Fitness: Health
24) Fitness: Stamina
26) Teleportation: Recall Friend
28) Regeneration: Instant Healing
30) Teleportation: Teleport
32) Stone Armor: Granite Armor
35) Kinetics: Fulcrum Shift
38) Kinetics: Siphon Speed
41) Psionic Mastery: Indomitable Will
44) Psionic Mastery: Mind Over Body
47) Radiation Emission: Accelerate Metabolism
49) Speed: Hasten
Between Granite Armor, Invincibility, and High Pain Tolerance, the build is at the defense softcap and resistance cap with five foes in melee range, using only common IOs. Fulcrum Shift with ten foes in the target area gives a 250% boost to damage, letting the build go toe-to-toe with a giant monster and defeat it using raw DPS. The to-hit buffs from Targeting Drone and Invincibility give the ability to hit foes at +7 (and possibly above) on a regular basis.
The build's still got a minor weakness to psionic attacks (both in resistance and in defense). There's also got to be a better attack chain; I just picked one with a high DPA power (Storm Kick) and no redraw.
I'm not certain that Active Defense is the best choice for mez protection: it covers the most types, but it's a click rather than a toggle.
The build is designed for single tough targets (archvillains and giant monsters), so it has a non-damage taunt aura, and no AoE attacks. A build designed to solo Hamidon, or one designed to wipe out minions at a run would look rather different.
Any suggestions on improving it?