Buying common salvage with tickets


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Then I ask again: What is all the animosity for the suggestion? If it isn't "major inf" we are talking about, then what does it matter to you or the others on the market if the suggestion gets accepted by the developers. Collectively the market will do what it always does: move onto something else that has better profits.

I've been getting a ton of negative rep (-200) with comments that amount to "ahahaha", collectively the market supporters in this thread have shown an abysmal reaction (you'd think I asked for the market to be eliminated given the reactions), and I've basically been told to use the system that I've repeatedly said I didn't want any part of.

Tell me is that the reaction you want to foster, Cat? Or do the market supporters just want to bully a suggestion because it deals with "minor inf"?
1) I don't speak for the market forums or anyone else for that matter. I speak for myself. I think it is a badly thought out idea that would adversely affect the game. My detailed reasons stated previously. I believe that random drops (or common rolls for AE tickets) are better for the game as a whole.

2) I don't care about your rep one way or the other. I haven't added or subtracted from it. It is turned off. if the rep points were signed you would know who did them,. if not then why suggest it is an orchestrated effort, apart from to further the next point ?

There has been clear attempts at 'Poisoning the Well' (in terms of the logical fallacy) and they have entirely emanated from you. This last post contains further examples.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
1) I don't speak for the market forums or anyone else for that matter. I speak for myself. I think it is a badly thought out idea that would adversely affect the game. My detailed reasons stated previously. I believe that random drops (or common rolls for AE tickets) are better for the game as a whole.
Your detailed reasons, and please correct me if I'm wrong, go like this:
  • Random drops are always more desirable than chosen purchases.
  • Even though the drops might never make it to the market due to being "minor value", players should continue to get them even if it is a frustrating waste of time to some because the market might get the unused pieces.

The first point is entirely subjective. We disagree.

The whole point of the original suggestion is to eliminate the frustration of the second. The second point represents a needless grind to those that do not use the market and brings me back to being forced to Market PVP if I want a specific piece of common salvage.

If the market doesn't see the results of the random rolls, then the market hasn't lost anything. At that point, why oppose the suggestion? Either those rolls are making their way to the market, being used crafting, or being sold to the vendors. We disagree as to what degree that the commons are getting to the market. I personally don't think a lot of the more usable common salvage is getting to the market. While the less used just sits there or gets sold to the stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
2) I don't care about your rep one way or the other. I haven't added or subtracted from it. It is turned off. if the rep points were signed you would know who did them,. if not then why suggest it is an orchestrated effort, apart from to further the next point ?
Cat, I directed my comments to you because you seem to be the most reasonable market supporter in this thread in hopes that you could perhaps convince the others to do the same. It isn't a co-ordinated effort? Could have fooled me. The same people that oppose any change to the markets bringing up the same arguments they always do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
This last post contains further examples.
That post was made in hopes that people would start discussing the suggestion rather than make attacks. I am also trying to understand why people are raising such a fuss over what they consider "not valuable".




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Posted

You might as well forget objections to the ways you can store your drops since the new email system will give you your own private account wide storage space. I imagine it'll be limited but if you know what you need you won't have to fill it with bloat.


 

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20 pieces E-mailed to yourself is limited but certainly not insignificant.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
You might as well forget objections to the ways you can store your drops since the new email system will give you your own private account wide storage space. I imagine it'll be limited but if you know what you need you won't have to fill it with bloat.
The problem stems from a phrase that often gets thrown at people that suggest changes like this: Random means random.

Unless I know what I'm getting as a recipe drop, how am I supposed to store it ahead of time?




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Posted

It kind of boggles my mind that some people are so opposed to the market that they won't even place an overnight bid on some common salvage. At the end of the day, though, I highly doubt that allowing the purchase of common salvage with AE tickets is going to cause the playerbase-at-large to suddenly start behaving rationally and obtaining salvage at the lowest possible cost.

A couple of hypothetical reasons for the devs' decision not to allow specific purchases of commons:

1. Like PvP, the market isn't compulsory - but I bet the devs would like you to use it, just as they'd like you to PvP.

2. The ability for lowbies to make a good bit of inf out of a lucky salvage drop is a bonus for casual players and people who don't have access to outside inf reserves.

3. 20 AE tickets is such a trivial amount that it paints common salvage as being essentially worthless. If you can obtain exactly what you need in about 2 minutes of game time, then is there really any point in requiring it in the first place?


 

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
The problem stems from a phrase that often gets thrown at people that suggest changes like this: Random means random.

Unless I know what I'm getting as a recipe drop, how am I supposed to store it ahead of time?
Oh that's easy. You use one of the two options at http://www.cohplanner.com/ to plan ahead. Everything you don't want to use you vend or slap on the market; anything you get that a different super needs you put in global mail till you can log into them to get it.

The IO system seems to be partially designed to be dependent upon a larger pool of resources then most people get on one character. If you feel the need to IO out you use the provided resources.


 

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Originally Posted by Redoubtable View Post
1. Like PvP, the market isn't compulsory - but I bet the devs would like you to use it, just as they'd like you to PvP.
Sure the market isn't compulsory and the devs would like us to use it. However they have given the player base several "outs" already in terms of both PVP and the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redoubtable View Post
2. The ability for lowbies to make a good bit of inf out of a lucky salvage drop is a bonus for casual players and people who don't have access to outside inf reserves.
Again, you are bringing the market into the equation. Again, the original suggestion has to do with AE Tickets, not the market. On the flip side, a player could use the suggestion in this thread to buy a luck charm to sell on the market if they choose to do so. At that point it would be a win for the market as activity occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redoubtable View Post
3. 20 AE tickets is such a trivial amount that it paints common salvage as being essentially worthless. If you can obtain exactly what you need in about 2 minutes of game time, then is there really any point in requiring it in the first place?
Given that the current situation is 8 times N rolls where N is an unknown number, it could be had for as little as 8 tickets. Over time that number is higher though. Only the developers have the stats of what is rolled vs what gets sold on the market.




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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
The IO system seems to be partially designed to be dependent upon a larger pool of resources then most people get on one character. If you feel the need to IO out you use the provided resources.
Like, say, buying salvage with AE Tickets? What the original suggestion does is provide a stable value to the common salvage. It doesn't add a new way to get salvage (as people have pointed out and agree that common rolls for AE tickets exist), unless the developers decide to keep the random rolls. The original suggestion just standardizes the price of common salvage.

Additional suggestions were to keep the random rolls in addition to the fixed price suggestion, and to add options to also have random rolls of uncommon and rare salvage.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Sure the market isn't compulsory and the devs would like us to use it. However they have given the player base several "outs" already in terms of both PVP and the market.
That's my point - there are already several outs, so they may not want to provide another.


Quote:
Again, you are bringing the market into the equation. Again, the original suggestion has to do with AE Tickets, not the market. On the flip side, a player could use the suggestion in this thread to buy a luck charm to sell on the market if they choose to do so. At that point it would be a win for the market as activity occurs.
The two don't exist in isolation, changes in AE tickets will affect the market. The most likely effect of this change (in my opinion) is a reduction in the price of low level common salvage, which is pertinent to my statement.


Quote:
Given that the current situation is 8 times N rolls where N is an unknown number, it could be had for as little as 8 tickets. Over time that number is higher though. Only the developers have the stats of what is rolled vs what gets sold on the market.
In this case I actually wasn't talking about the market, I was talking about the amount of effort required to get a specific piece of common salvage in order to craft a recipe. It's true that it could be as little as 8 tickets now, but the average will be somewhat higher and there's an element of unpredictability. Reducing that to "kill half a dozen enemies and you're guaranteed the salvage you want" makes the whole exercise near pointless.


 

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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
20 pieces E-mailed to yourself is limited but certainly not insignificant.
Ack forgot one key factor, personal storage with E-mailing becomes very significant and limited mainly by how much you wish to fiddle with it.

'Most' people seem to play predominantly on one or two servers. For the US folks there are 11, each with 12 slots.

Even using just half of those that is 60 'bank' characters at level that can be rolled and parked.

Assuming level 1 for these 60 bank characters.

That's 600 enhancements
180 salvage
60 recipes
plus 60 spots on the Auction house that could be used

For 66 month plus vets these become
480 salvage
360 recipes
plus 120 spots on the AH.

If you play on only a single server, and have 10 servers available for this trick, then double the above.

I would say that is easily enough inventory for most individuals need, and it takes only minor work to get it.
(Though book keeping would be required to keep things straight for sure)

Sorry EU folks, you don't get to use this trick anywhere near as much.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

Posted

I don't believe somebody needs to be anti-market, or anti-marketeering, to be behind the OP's idea.

This is about reducing hassle costs associated with IOing out characters. Redoubtable's concerns about making it "too easy" reflect a concern about pricing. Pricing issues are fixable, and not a reason to jettison the idea of allowing players to pick a specific common salvage item, when buying them with AE tickets.

I wouldn't care if the price of common salvage ended up being relatively high when you got to pick what you were purchasing, as long as it wasn't astronomical. And, I know I'd IO up earlier in my characters' careers if it was less of a pain in the a## to do it.

Speaking of hassle costs, I have no desire to use the email system as a kind of storage system. I'm guessing a lot of players would feel the same way. Why would somebody voluntarily choose such a tedious and annoyingly complex way of organizing their gear, if there was a less tedious and complex choice available?

What it boils down to, for me, is that I'd rather have the option to play longer to earn tickets to purchase specific common salvage items than get a cheaper price on random rolls for common salvage, and then carry excess salvage to the market and/or use the email system to store items. Playing is fun. Setting up and running a kind of warehouse, or Fed Exing items between locations and dropping items into the market screen is boring.


 

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Worrying about an item being trivial doesn't necessitate a market concern. There come a point where something is so easy to obtain it serves no purpose and should probably be removed to reduce bloat. There may be a market concern with this request but it's not part of every point of disinterest.


 

Posted

I don't like this idea for one reason:

1. It gives players an even greater incentive to use AE.

I'm one of those players that feel AE should be secondary to the regular PvE game, and giving players the ability to obtain the exact salvage they require from AE would be a step against this design.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
Ack forgot one key factor, personal storage with E-mailing becomes very significant and limited mainly by how much you wish to fiddle with it.
I think that you are over-thinking this. Why would I waste my valuable playtime setting up this storage scheme? Besides, I play on many servers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
'Most' people seem to play predominantly on one or two servers. For the US folks there are 11, each with 12 slots.
I would say that is easily enough inventory for most individuals need, and it takes only minor work to get it.
(Though book keeping would be required to keep things straight for sure)
Yeah, and that is where idea of using alts for storage fails. Sure there might be a few that will jump through those hoops, but it is far more tedious than the original suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeTattoo View Post
What it boils down to, for me, is that I'd rather have the option to play longer to earn tickets to purchase specific common salvage items than get a cheaper price on random rolls for common salvage, and then carry excess salvage to the market and/or use the email system to store items. Playing is fun. Setting up and running a kind of warehouse, or Fed Exing items between locations and dropping items into the market screen is boring.
I agree with this entirely, especially the highlighted sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
I don't like this idea for one reason:

1. It gives players an even greater incentive to use AE.

I'm one of those players that feel AE should be secondary to the regular PvE game, and giving players the ability to obtain the exact salvage they require from AE would be a step against this design.
Not really. All it does is gives more options to those that do run AE missions.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Not really. All it does is gives more options to those that do run AE missions.
Yes really.

With your suggestion, I no longer have to guess at a price by using the market or place a bid and wait or pay the IWANTNAO price. Instead I just get all my salvage from tickets which are generated from AE.

Players find the path of least resistance, and AE/Tickets would be that path for salvage.


 

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Yes, painfully. You are so blinded by your market bias that you are failing to understand a basic premise here: I could care less what happens at the market. Marketers like yourself have so poisoned the well that I don't care what happens to anyone's niche market. I've turned to other places to get what I need when it comes to uncommon or rare salvage.


You fail in logic. I can't buy what isn't for sale.


A fact that I'm aware of.

However you fail to understand that I could care less about the market and the fact that I am not talking about the market. I am talking about the AE Vending system alone. The market can proceed on its merry way in peace.


I have a solution to what I've said I feel is a problem: common salvage costs more than uncommon salvage within the AE vending system.


Why, yes, I did know that. You are avoiding the point: multiple rolls raises the cost of common salvage.
I honestly think Snowies plan would help alot to buy common salvage does take around 80 tix to do, and the random rolls are really pointless because you don't know which one to roll to which salvage you want since its from 10-25 30-35 and 40-50 i believe and its pointless to do that.. 8 tics for that.. i don't like that, i completely support Snowies suggestion.. He does have a very good arguement.. btw guys read before you post it does seem that you are losing because you are not understanding it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempstra View Post
I honestly think Snowies plan would help alot to buy common salvage does take around 80 tix to do, and the random rolls are really pointless because you don't know which one to roll to which salvage you want since its from 10-25 30-35 and 40-50 i believe and its pointless to do that.. 8 tics for that.. i don't like that, i completely support Snowies suggestion.. He does have a very good arguement.. btw guys read before you post it does seem that you are losing because you are not understanding it.
I would LOVE the ability to get the exact salvage I want at a fixed price but just not with AE or tickets. I also know such a system would be a deteriment to the market/economy.

So, even though I WANT something I know that getting the WANT might not in the best interest of the game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempstra View Post
I honestly think Snowies plan would help alot to buy common salvage does take around 80 tix to do, and the random rolls are really pointless because you don't know which one to roll to which salvage you want since its from 10-25 30-35 and 40-50 i believe and its pointless to do that.. 8 tics for that.. i don't like that, i completely support Snowies suggestion.. He does have a very good arguement.. btw guys read before you post it does seem that you are losing because you are not understanding it.
The level of your roll would depend on the level of the recipe the salvage is needed for.


 

Posted

and it is pretty easy to distinguish which type of salvage you need to roll.


 

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
The level of your roll would depend on the level of the recipe the salvage is needed for.
Unless it is in the 20-25 or 35-39 range. Note that the descriptions for the "grab bags" don't tell you what are the possible rolls.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Unless it is in the 20-25 or 35-39 range. Note that the descriptions for the "grab bags" don't tell you what are the possible rolls.
you've been playing for how long and don't know what level ranges the salvage is in? this is info that anyone can find out. it even gets easier if you have the recipe you want to make. that tells you what level range to roll in. as far as type of salvage, it's pretty self explanitory. and honestly, if you think that 8 tickets per random roll is to much then you have some serious issues. in one AE mission you can make enough tickets to fill your salvage at least 2 times. thats 100-like 140(at least) pieces depending on how much salvage your 50 can hold. you do not get that running a regular mission. even at low levels you can hold a good amount of salvage.


 

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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
you've been playing for how long and don't know what level ranges the salvage is in?
No, but I'm constantly answering questions of this nature in game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
this is info that anyone can find out. it even gets easier if you have the recipe you want to make. that tells you what level range to roll in. as far as type of salvage, it's pretty self explanatory.
Ok, now you are just being contrary on purpose. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a text update showing what is being rolled for. It would literally take the developers less than 20 minutes to change the descriptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
and honestly, if you think that 8 tickets per random roll is to much then you have some serious issues.
Reading failure, I asked for a ticket increase (a bit over double the amount of a random roll) for the ability pick which salvage you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
in one AE mission you can make enough tickets to fill your salvage at least 2 times. thats 100-like 140(at least) pieces depending on how much salvage your 50 can hold. you do not get that running a regular mission. even at low levels you can hold a good amount of salvage.
And, as pointed out in this thread, people are not rolling for salvage. They are using AE Tickets for bronze, silver, and gold recipe rolls.




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Posted

Hi:

I like the idea of being able to get recipes through merits, which allows me to avoid the hideous over-pricing of some recipes; of course as some would say, as long as someone will pay that much for them, they will be priced as such..way to go Ebay and ******!

Just as recipes are being hideously priced and manipulated, salvage is no different and subject to price gauging, of course as long as folks are willing to pay such amounts for them, the practice will continue.

I had always hoped for a game alternate to control or limit how bad the gauging can get to be, for us players who play casually, have not so good luck, or do not buy influence from busineses such as ******* or Ebay. I feel the merit award system does limit som eof this, after all just do a few TFs and you can have any recipe you want wit the exception of purples; would be nice if you could buy purples as well.

With regards to random rolls at AE for recipes, its a waste for me, I always get some lame status effect recipe, and of course of a level I do not want. I would really like to see AE have tickets exchanged for specific recipes and salvage, any type common, rare or what not. Obviously the amount of tickets one could store would have to be more 9999, so reasonable exchange rates could be set.

But anyway, I am for allowing commons to be acquired through AE tickets.

Hugs

Stormfront


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA View Post
Hi:

I like the idea of being able to get recipes through merits, which allows me to avoid the hideous over-pricing of some recipes; of course as some would say, as long as someone will pay that much for them, they will be priced as such..way to go Ebay and ******!

Just as recipes are being hideously priced and manipulated, salvage is no different and subject to price gauging, of course as long as folks are willing to pay such amounts for them, the practice will continue.

I had always hoped for a game alternate to control or limit how bad the gauging can get to be, for us players who play casually, have not so good luck, or do not buy influence from busineses such as ****** or Ebay. I feel the merit award system does limit som eof this, after all just do a few TFs and you can have any recipe you want wit the exception of purples; would be nice if you could buy purples as well.

With regards to random rolls at AE for recipes, its a waste for me, I always get some lame status effect recipe, and of course of a level I do not want. I would really like to see AE have tickets exchanged for specific recipes and salvage, any type common, rare or what not. Obviously the amount of tickets one could store would have to be more 9999, so reasonable exchange rates could be set.

But anyway, I am for allowing commons to be acquired through AE tickets.

Hugs

Stormfront
sorry to tell you stormy, but coming in here and trying to say that anyone who has money bought it is completely wrong. i hope you brought a cork and some armor with you. purples are never going to make it to the merit or ticket vendors. the devs DO NOT want it that way.

here is the thing, if you(generic) are paying high prices for anything at the market you(generic) are STUPID for either not placing a bid and waiting a few mins or not taking advantage of a good thing and selling your(generic) unwanted anythings at the market. place it up for 10-15, or more if you(generic don't want to chance it, and collect. sometimes it may take a few mins, but oh well. go do something else and come back when you're(generic) ready.