Things that are more difficult redside, and hence more fun.


Afterimage

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The social structure we're aiming for is a dictator-free set-up
Here we go again with the Tyranny By Majority....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
Here we go again with the Tyranny By Majority....
So defeating Tyrant and his goons is oppressing a minority?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Possibly. How many super powered individuals are in Praetoria?

Also how does it feel to be supporting Anarchism GG?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
So defeating Tyrant and his goons is oppressing a minority?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMystic View Post
Possibly. How many super powered individuals are in Praetoria?
This. How do you think superhumans will be treated after normal folks gain power from Emperor Cole? Are your rebels smart enough to devise a Constitution that will protect the rights of the minority?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
This. How do you think superhumans will be treated after normal folks gain power from Emperor Cole? Are your rebels smart enough to devise a Constitution that will protect the rights of the minority?
One similar to the one on Primal Earth would do


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMystic View Post
Possibly. How many super powered individuals are in Praetoria?
90% less than there should be


Quote:
Also how does it feel to be supporting Anarchism GG?
Not too sure a democratic government counts an anarchy


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
One similar to the one on Primal Earth would do
The one on Primal Earth is highly questionable. All superhumans have to register with the government.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
The one on Primal Earth is highly questionable. All superhumans have to register with the government.
The alternative seems to be to have the governmnet being made up of superpowered people - and Praetoria and the Rogue Isles aren't really good adverts for that method


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Men kill, and have killed, way more people
Women have stabbed the hearts of many more men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Not too sure a democratic government counts an anarchy
Regardless of your intentions, your invasion of ϒ β 9-6 will create anarchy.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Women have stabbed the hearts of many more men
That's not quite the same thing

Quote:
Regardless of your intentions, your invasion of ϒ β 9-6 will create anarchy.
I very much doubt it


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Evil is not fun

says you =P


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The alternative seems to be to have the governmnet being made up of superpowered people - and Praetoria and the Rogue Isles aren't really good adverts for that method
While not my ideal form of government, the so-called oppressed citizens of Praetoria are happy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Well, there's a little more to it than just "Statesman says so"
As in Recluse presenting a clear and imminent worldwide threat - so the forces of law and order are entitled to remove that threat at once.
Actually, no. If you read the text Statesman doesn't actually have any reason to send you to the Rogue Isles other than "Recluse is building...something." It could just as easily have been an orphanage that the Task Force tears down, which gives Recluse a legitimate reason to hand to his people on why the Vigilantes of Paragon City are dangerous. Not to mention that the invasion, had there not been an item of major threat being built, would be considered another illegal invasion of the Etoile Isles by agents of the American government.

Oh and for the rest of you, when I mentioned meta-gaming to GG in a PM, she told me that it's OK because she doesn't Role Play, so all of this is really her actual opinion.


The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

 

Posted

I don't understand.

Why would you try and have a debate with Golden Girl? I tried that once. It's pointless. She does not debate. She merely restates her opinion over and over. And then winks. She could run for office. Of course, that would require her to be evil.



Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!

 

Posted

I like playing all aspects in THIS game. 've explored almost all the archetypes, the two that I'm currently lacking in are Dominators and Fortunatas. I've gone a great distance on the different combinations for all the others.

I like having Villains, I like having Heroes. Each side has aspects that are interesting and intriguing.

I've played games where the option remained to be evil (like truly, personally, dastardly evil; Fallout 3 and blowing up Megaton, for instance), and I didn't take those options. Not only did I not "walk the dark path," I simply could not will myself to do it. I don't see the point to it. My characters are just trying to live their lives.

When it comes to how the game portrays events, I like to think of these as not our adventures, but the adventures of "The Hero" and "The Villain" (and soon, the "The Loyalist" and "The Revolutionary"). When my characters wind up working for Westin Phipps, they're not the actual ones helping him, but they're reviewing the story (through journals, articles, etc.).

It's the only way it makes sense to me, that no matter what we do, nothing ever really changes. However, these tasks have been accomplished, leaving the world in its peculiar state of equilibrium. None of us have done it, yet all of us have done it. It's a strange state of affairs.

Now, as far as the Redside missions go, I'm not too keen on some of it all. On Blueside, not every arc needs to be capped off with an Elite Boss/Arch Villain fight. A few of them do, and those missions are memorable. On Redside, though, you wind up fighting an AV/EB as early as Level Six (it's that vampyri in Port Oakes... I've never seen it fought with more than a couple people, so it might just be an Elite, like Cortex). Further arcs involve the Sea Witch (twice, in basically the same exact fight, both of which are just plain NASTY), Calystix the Shaper (a just plain RIDICULOUS fight), Metalshift (Freak Tank Swiper... With Psychic POWER!), The SuperFreak (I'm not writing that in 1337), The RiktiFreak (Retrofitted Superfreak, he says so in his dialogue, again I'm not spelling it in 1337), and a host of other EB/AVs, all of which are statistically more powerful than our characters (simply because of the videogame numbers). If they fought us as Bosses, it would be battles that make more sense, but wouldn't be "challenges" to teams.

Just because a battle is more challenging is no reason that it's better. Imagine if everything was more challenging. Take driving, for instance. Imagine if, in order to drive, you had to reach behind you and hit a switch in the back seat every five minutes in order to keep the engine running. Does this make engineering sense? No. Is it challenging for the driver? Oh yes. Is it better? Hell no.

Now, let's get back to something more comparable. Take sports. Say, football. One team is clearly outclassed. The other team has bigger and more experienced players. They've had the money from the beginning to buy the best talent in the sport into their team. The team of underdogs inexplicably wins, through sheer determination and raw iron will, and becomes the stuff of legends. Is it epic? Quite. They make movies about this sort of thing.

Now, say you're that underdog team... And you have to face this challenge every single time you play a game. Not only that, you're no longer just playing football. You're playing hockey or baseball or whatever. There are new sets of rules to learn for each game, new tactics to master, and new challenges to overcome.

You can fight Metalshift and Sea Witch roughly in the same range. This is what it feels like. Metalshift is a brute. He charges at you, hits extremely hard and leaves you gasping for breath. Sea Witch, however, her battle is chock full of nasty tricks and traps. There are ambushes out the rear (Arch Villains who call for reinforcements still bothers me; I thought these were supposed to be the best, what do they need help for?), and a few nasty runes that summon a complement of elemental creatures to kill you if you step on them. That's quite the steep learning curve for a team, and most players (the extreme most, 95-98%) are too impatient to take the time to learn. Sea Witch is a definite meat grinder for teams, I've seen her repeatedly chew them up and spit them out.

There's a blog I follow from an independent developer whose games I like, The Bottom Feeder, and two of his articles: Why Bushwhacking Your Players is a Bad Idea and Make Your Game Easy, Then Make it Easier explain the basic premise of customer perception in videogames.

Jeff Vogel states "People will happily forgive a game for being too easy, because it makes them feel badass. If a game is too hard, they will get angry, ragequit, hold a grudge, and never buy your games again."

There have been many times I have simply stopped playing Redside because the challenge I was being presented was just too much. Hardcase had sent my characters to do battle with a number of Howler Monkeys (I know that's not what they are), including one of their kings, and Johnny Sonata sent me to do the same. Their Arch Villain versions are the exact same thing as the Boss versions, and those damn things get back up after being defeated. Imagine having to fight the same banal Arch Villain twice in succession. On top of that, Arch Villains and Elite Bosses have their numbers ramped WAY up, for no more reason than "they're supposed to be a challenge, so they hit harder, resist more damage, and have more hitpoints than ANY hero can." Disagree? Have another go at Statesman and see if you can hit as hard as he does.

Redside's challenge rating, out of the box, is almost ludicrous. It's not that the archetypes aren't cool. However, the missions and arcs you wind up dealing with are exceptionally harrowing. You wind up feeling bloodied and battered by the time you find yourself (SPOILER ALERT) battling Recluse at the end of your patron arc (it doesn't matter which patron), and even HE can hit like a Mack truck, takes hits like a bunker made out of Depleted Uranium, and summons goons to take you down when you so much as slap him.

A challenge is not automatically better. It's when you win that you feel satisfied and awesome. However, for the five or six times it kicks the tar out of you, you just feel frustrated. You even feel cheated. Some players even go so far as to post here on the forums how they "hate that the game forces [them] to team" or that "the game forces specific team makeups."

A well-executed challenge is awesome. A cheap shot or a grindfest, as most MMOs are apt to do, is aggravating.


My Stories

Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
While not my ideal form of government, the so-called oppressed citizens of Praetoria are happy.
Even the ones who are murdered?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms View Post
Actually, no. If you read the text Statesman doesn't actually have any reason to send you to the Rogue Isles other than "Recluse is building...something." It could just as easily have been an orphanage that the Task Force tears down, which gives Recluse a legitimate reason to hand to his people on why the Vigilantes of Paragon City are dangerous. Not to mention that the invasion, had there not been an item of major threat being built, would be considered another illegal invasion of the Etoile Isles by agents of the American government.
Recluse's record would suggest that anything he's up to is bad - so it's perfectly ok to investigate anything he does


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Even the ones who are murdered?
You keep stressing this point, GG, and I'd like to point something out:

WE don't actually know what happened.

Our characters don't. Until we get a chance to see the storyline firsthand, and not just some "leaked information," we players don't, either.

Now, many of our high-end Heroes have had to deal with the Praetorians, and through those missions, they know the truth of THAT conflict. However, there have been years of change between then and now (even if the game doesn't change).

90% of the world's meta human populace have disappeared. In their place are a never-ending stream of Emperor Cole Loyalists. It may be "Convert or Die," or it may be "Convert or We'll Keep Breaking You." It might not even be any of that, and the missing meta humans simply went underground to form the Resistance.

WE DON'T KNOW.

We'll be EXPLORING Praetorian Earth, and finding out what the Hell is going on. We won't be simply waging war for no reason. If we turn against the Praetorians, we'll do it because we find something abhorrent with Emperor Cole's rule. If we go Loyalist, it will be for any number of reasons, either we benefit greatly from Cole's patronage, or we feel he's doing the right thing by ruling with a firm hand.

But we won't know until we get there.

----------

To add a little to the real topic here, I'm hoping that Praetorian Earth doesn't cap off most of its arcs with EB/AV fights. I see enough of that in the Architect, players pitting me against Elite Boss or Arch Villain versions of themselves, hitting like assault tanks and cutting a path with a rapid barrage of every attack power that can be crammed into them.

I'd like to see a good game with a good story, not an inevitable hardcore Endboss.


My Stories

Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Recluse's record would suggest that anything he's up to is bad - so it's perfectly ok to investigate anything he does
I said once that in a normal world, the U.N. would give the "Okay" to simply nuking the Rogue Isles...

Then again, they haven't yet in City of Heroes Earth. The capability to destroy an island FULL of escaped convicts is certainly within the power the nearest nation's government, yet it hasn't happened.

Somehow, some way, most of the world is actually ignorant of Recluse's "evil" behavior. We, as heroes, have to abide by that understanding.

That means, no matter how much we know the man is up to no good, we can't do anything about it until it's demonstrated to us that his plans are counterproductive to the wellbeing of the people we protect.

I know, it sucks, but those are the laws we've been sworn to protect.


My Stories

Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I'd get all Buffy on her butt
Bring it on.. too bad youre on Defiant so we can only do this through MA arcs Mine are behind @elizabeth bathory


- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Men kill, and have killed, way more people
And the women are usually more bloody... sneaking and more vengefull then any man.

It is a bit like compairing Ares to Athena.


- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
Here we go again with the Tyranny By Majority....
This one bothers me. I feel it's not being applied properly.

We're not talking about civil rights here. We're talking about learning that a world is under the boot heel of a man who has the power to rend it asunder. Are we supposed to be okay with the fact that he's basically got the world thinking "Happy, happy thoughts forever" while burying them up to their necks in fecal matter? Are we supposed to support his "Nineteen Eighty-Four" version of peace?

The majority in this instance would say this is WRONG. Consensus disagrees with such a state of affairs. Unless, of course, you agree that exploiting the masses simply because you have the means to is right. If such is the case, I find you my enemy, and will gladly snuff your life out if given the opportunity, for you are precisely the monster I came to slay.

This is not the same as demanding the right for women to vote. This is not the same as eliminating segregation and apartheid. We are LIBERATING an oppressed people (though not yet, because we don't know what's going on).


My Stories

Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
Arch Villains who call for reinforcements still bothers me; I thought these were supposed to be the best, what do they need help for?
They're villains. Who ever said they were supposed to play nice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
Jeff Vogel states "People will happily forgive a game for being too easy, because it makes them feel badass. If a game is too hard, they will get angry, ragequit, hold a grudge, and never buy your games again."
OTOH, gamers reminisce about Nintendo Hard games, and still toss themselves into the grinder. Making a quality game is not as simple as "easy" vs. "hard".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
Imagine having to fight the same banal Arch Villain twice in succession. On top of that, Arch Villains and Elite Bosses have their numbers ramped WAY up, for no more reason than "they're supposed to be a challenge, so they hit harder, resist more damage, and have more hitpoints than ANY hero can."
Most AV/EBs do not have more resistance than players can achieve, actually (though their resistance cap is higher, most never hit their cap). In fact, Soldiers of Rularuu have twice the resistance cap of AVs.

Also, AV/EBs that self-rez are very rare, outside MA. Wailer Lord (CoV), Romulus Augustus (Co-Op), and Valkyrie (CoV) are the only AV/EBs that actually have a self-rez power. You might also count War: Rider, Famine: Rider, and Pestilence: Rider (Co-Op), who have multiple encounters within the same mission, or Snaptooth (Co-Op), who respawns himself at varying ranks, topping off with EB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
Now, many of our high-end Heroes have had to deal with the Praetorians, and through those missions, they know the truth of THAT conflict. However, there have been years of change between then and now (even if the game doesn't change).
Actually, we trespassed on ϒ β 9-6 first. Emperor Cole saw that we came from a lawless dimension, and decided to take the same proactive stance that GG is advocating.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
burying them up to their necks in fecal matter?
What fecal matter? The citizens of Praetoria truly do live in a utopia.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
This one bothers me. I feel it's not being applied properly.

We're not talking about civil rights here. We're talking about learning that a world is under the boot heel of a man who has the power to rend it asunder. Are we supposed to be okay with the fact that he's basically got the world thinking "Happy, happy thoughts forever" while burying them up to their necks in fecal matter? Are we supposed to support his "Nineteen Eighty-Four" version of peace?

The majority in this instance would say this is WRONG. Consensus disagrees with such a state of affairs. Unless, of course, you agree that exploiting the masses simply because you have the means to is right. If such is the case, I find you my enemy, and will gladly snuff your life out if given the opportunity, for you are precisely the monster I came to slay.

This is not the same as demanding the right for women to vote. This is not the same as eliminating segregation and apartheid. We are LIBERATING an oppressed people (though not yet, because we don't know what's going on).
Shhh - you'l spoil it for the Tyrant apologists - let them find out in their own time with GR


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork