I would be surprised if it changed things much blue side. There are LOTS of lvl 50 heroes who for whatever reason either don't have, or don't enjoy khelds. Red side....
More than fine with it...
20 is plenty high enough that you know the basics of the game by then.
but even better, more people will give Khelds a try, meaning much more player feedback, meaning Khelds might finally stop being the last things that gets attention from the Devs. Who know? Maybe we'll even eventually get form customization, alternate power pathing... It's win
I'll be trying them out, never got a hero to 30, let alone 50. but I have 5 vills at 50.
VEATs are a lot of fun, so I can't wait to try HEATs.
20's too low, should've been 30 or 40. Problem is we're going to have all these people saying "this AT sucks" because they only play it a bit before getting bored and moving on to their next alt, or because they don't realize how complex a Kheld can be (requiring binds for effectiveness is going to be a source of confusion, I am sure). On the plus side, maybe increased playtime might give the devs data they need for future buffs.
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This is pretty much how I'm looking at it... More Kheld players are great, but if you've only played your first character up to lvl 20 before making one, then picking up a Kheld for the first time can be pretty overwhelming and complex for a lot of people--a little less so for VEATs, but still...|
Originally Posted by macskull
20's too low, should've been 30 or 40. Problem is we're going to have all these people saying "this AT sucks" because they only play it a bit before getting bored and moving on to their next alt, or because they don't realize how complex a Kheld can be (requiring binds for effectiveness is going to be a source of confusion, I am sure). On the plus side, maybe increased playtime might give the devs data they need for future buffs.
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...I don't know.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
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Eh, VEATs aren't all that great in the 1-20 range, so I don't think anyone is going to go for one or the other solely on that range.
I do have to wonder about the change though... it's faster to get to 50 than ever now, and a LOT of players have 50s. It'll be nice for new people to the game, but that's about it. One things for sure, though, the devs can no longer say that Khelds can be put on the backburner as less people can play them... level 20 is an early entrypoint. Heck most ATs don't pick up until the 20s anyway, so it is rather interesting.
Kind of ties in with my thoughts in the other thread.
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This outweighs *all* negatives |
Originally Posted by macskull
...On the plus side, maybe increased playtime might give the devs data they need for future buffs.
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Doesn't this happen now?|
Originally Posted by macskull
Problem is we're going to have all these people saying "this AT sucks" because they only play it a bit before getting bored and moving on to their next alt, or because they don't realize how complex a Kheld can be (requiring binds for effectiveness is going to be a source of confusion, I am sure).
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Since having a Level 50 is no longer a sign of a veteran player, I don't see this as a real reason to gate off the Kheldians in that way.
It also makes me think they have another award that they want to institute for getting that first Level 50.
Global name: @k26dp
Really, why would any of you care at what level others were able to play Khelds? It doesn't effect *your* play whatsoever.
I admit to a slight feeling of Elitism/Exclusive Club Member with mine, and part of me doesn't want a wave of PBs and WSs out there because I enjoy being part of a small rare group
But that's not really a positive thing and I recognize it as such. So, since there's no other good reason to not allow Khelds at lvl 20, I say bring em on. And so-called complexity isn't a good reason. This game isn't *that* hard, even playing Kheldians.
I'm the reason for this change. I've been playing on and off since pre-order beta for CoH, and have 39 months of vet time, but I still don't have a 50.
I really want to play a Kheldian, but I don't have it in me to grind for it. I prefer generalist, flexible classes like WoW's druids and EverQuest's bards, but I can't get to one of those until I grind a specialist to 50.
I tend to lean toward "OK, but they should be 30, not 20" myself - for both Khelds and VEATs. Long enough that people realize there's some building to do, and expect to have to do it for the epics as well - more than "i haz staminas nao."
I didn't mind it being 50. I think if Khelds had been unlockable at an earlier level when I got mine (issue 4,) not only do I not think I'd have been ready for it, but wouldn't have had quite the drive to finish my elec/elec blaster (the first 50.) I actually argued against the VEATs having their unlock requirement at 50 "for the sake of parity" - the devs were saying well before that that 50 was a mistake, and really, I wouldn't have cared. Parity, to me, is just a *bad* argument. So in that sense, I suppose I'm glad to see it coming down.
I do think it's a little *too* low, though, yeah.
I probably would have made it 30 or 32 rather than 20, as well.
That said, I don't have any real problem with this change. Having a level-gated unlock is probably not the greatest mechanic for unlocking an AT that's more demanding in terms of build and tactical play and plenty of people PL'd to unlock them at 50. Personally I'm actually hoping that unlocing at 20 might bring down the number of people who compalin they aren't 'ubarz' enough for a level 50 unlock.
Likely that's overly optimistic and I'm sure we'll get a flood of people making snap judgments on Khelds in the wake of this, but in the long run I think this change is a good one. I love Khelds and I figure the more people get the chance to try and fall in love with 'em, the better for our little corner of the community.
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I agree with the too low call. For some of us it felt like an accomplishment to get to 50, and unlocking a new class was not so much as a reward but a gift to continue enjoying the game. Something new. Now I have little problem with the standards to get Epics made easier, just I wish it were a little higher and more involved. Make it TF/SF contingent. Blue side has a perfect one, though Red would need a new one to be equivalent. This of course presents a different hurdle, but nit a bad one I think.
All of the cries of "this ain't epic enough" will be magnified ten fold.
If you believe in squeaky wheels, maybe that's enough to get a buff, but I personally don't think that will matter much to those that don't like the AT as it stands. Most of their problems aren't a matter of buffing damage (the usual AT "solution" these days), but more so a question of play style and mechanics.
I think it would have been much better to unlock EATs at 38.
This in my opinion is the best point as you then have all the primary and secondary powers available and the next then are Patrons or Hero "Epic" Pools.
You had the chance till 38 to experience all the basics of the character you have chosen.
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Really? I was thinking that people would have lower expectations of what a Kheld can do if the threshold to get one is lower.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
All of the cries of "this ain't epic enough" will be magnified ten fold.
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Anyhow, it's no skin off my nose. Having other people play a Kheld doesn't hurt me in the slightest. I will point out that having the limit at 20 keeps the trial accounts locked out. Also, it sounds like level 20 is going to be a significant milestone once GR comes out.
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I've never heard anyone, in game, say anything one way or another about the "epicness" of Kheldians. I have heard people, in game, complain about cysts, but I usually attribute that to either ignorance, or a few bad experiences.
I'd say 32 as well, but it doesn't affect me one or the other.
I got to 50 on blueside, got my Khelds, then got to 50 on redside and got my VEATS.
Games change over time.
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We had a discussion about this yesterday on Triumph. I agree with this statement. 20 is entirely too low. At that point players are just discovering how their characters really work and synergize with others'. That's a premium requirement for being a good Kheldian player.|
Originally Posted by macskull
20's too low, should've been 30 or 40. Problem is we're going to have all these people saying "this AT sucks" because they only play it a bit before getting bored and moving on to their next alt, or because they don't realize how complex a Kheld can be (requiring binds for effectiveness is going to be a source of confusion, I am sure). On the plus side, maybe increased playtime might give the devs data they need for future buffs.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
All of the cries of "this ain't epic enough" will be magnified ten fold.
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If you're new to the game you're gonna have expectations of something that can laugh in the face of purple cons while you obliterate 'em with a single click of a button. As we all know, that's just not the case with Kheldians or Soldiers of Arachnos. Both sets of EATs are rather unimpressive until the mid 20s. That's all fine and dandy if you come in with some experience and maybe a bit of knowledge from the forums. But let's be honest, that's not gonna be the case for the majority of players who'll be picking up EATs when they become available at 20.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
I admit to a slight feeling of Elitism/Exclusive Club Member with mine, and part of me doesn't want a wave of PBs and WSs out there because I enjoy being part of a small rare group.
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Whenever I see or team with another Kheldian or SoA I give 'em a nod. It shows some dedication and I have a higher standard for that particular player. Now that may not be right but this is the personal opinion portion of my post so you guys can suck it
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To be honest I don't care about the VEATs, and I just wish I could've known what VEATs were like before I leveled-up my Dominator to Lv50 to unlock the VEATs. It would've saved me loads of time which I could've spent on my Kheldians instead.
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Hey, we just had announced in Issue 17 that one of the "features" is that Epic ATs can now be unlocked after level 20...
What are my fellow Kheldian's thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Fair? Unfair?
About our beloved Kheldians becoming unlockable at Lv20 instead of Lv50? if anything by allowing people to unlock Kheldians earlier, it would mean we would have an infusion of newly created Kheldians to teach and help.
Players who would fall in love with their Kheldians would enjoy them sooner and more often, and those who would hate/despise and otherwise feel negatively about them get to ignore them sooner (like I wish I could do with VEATs). All in all, everybody wins, except those who already have Lv50 characters and have no interest in either EAT, they gain nothing and lose nothing.
That's my two INF anyway.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
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plain and simple we've become downgraded to capes.
what is our endgame reward now?
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@debtlover
I have a complaint about issue 17 and your going rouge anouncements.
I find it unfair that to established and long term account holders.
First players whom have worked hard to reach lvl 50 for an end game reward of epic arctypes, what's epic about lvl 20 most ppl reach that by the end of a synapse TF. Your turning kelhdians in to capes. What will be our lvl 50 reward then?
Next with the release of Good VS Evil pack the villians population exploded, Praetoria should be added like RWZ,Pocket D or Ouroboros
If a new player buys the Going Rouge pack for the 40.00 USD are they intitled to play heroes and villians if they so desire? While other long term account holders paid fist for CoH then additionally for CoVthe pay another forty bucks for all the bells and whistles?
From popular opinion Rouge was to let heroes trasnslate in to villians and vise versa depending on alignment, while Rouge was aledeged to be a nutral zone.
With all the New mmos out there, I and many other ppl still enjoy this game. I would hate to see the population accross 10 servers become a ghost town.
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Have to disagree with most of this.|
Originally Posted by AgroVader
I have a complaint about issue 17 and your going rouge anouncements.
I find it unfair that to established and long term account holders. First players whom have worked hard to reach lvl 50 for an end game reward of epic arctypes, what's epic about lvl 20 most ppl reach that by the end of a synapse TF. Your turning kelhdians in to capes. What will be our lvl 50 reward then? Next with the release of Good VS Evil pack the villians population exploded, Praetoria should be added like RWZ,Pocket D or Ouroboros If a new player buys the Going Rouge pack for the 40.00 USD are they intitled to play heroes and villians if they so desire? While other long term account holders paid fist for CoH then additionally for CoVthe pay another forty bucks for all the bells and whistles? From popular opinion Rouge was to let heroes trasnslate in to villians and vise versa depending on alignment, while Rouge was aledeged to be a nutral zone. With all the New mmos out there, I and many other ppl still enjoy this game. I would hate to see the population accross 10 servers become a ghost town. |
First off, why does there need to be a 'level 50 reward'? The Devs have said many times that they regretted making EATs unlock at 50 since it encouranged people to PL and in some cases led to expectations of some kind of 'godmode AT' which hurt perceptions of the AT when it of course wasn't that.
I expect that Going Rogue will follow the pattern established by City of Villains - an entirely new stand-alone game that existing players can enter and new players can join. It will almost certainly increase the game's population in a significant way. Making it simply an extra zone addition like Cimerora or RWZ really doesn't make much sense. And, while it's to be expected that many people will be busy in Preatoria for a while after launch, that's not necessarily a bad thing and in the long run I anticipate population everywhere will level out as Heroes who want to be Villains and Villains who want to be Heroes make the switch.
It's a good system and, if past precedent holds, they'll eventually allow all subscribers access to all areas of the game - those who buy the expansion get to enjoy it at once, others get access a few months down the line.
It's extremely premature to make 'ghost town' predictions. I expect server activity will go way up across the board with GR's launch. I also expect that a large part of that will be Praetoria with relatively less people playing the CoH / CoV content as everyone tries out the new shinies. And this means some people will declare this or that area a 'ghost town'. And I will laugh at these people.
Just my opinion, but I don't see a real problem with having Khelds unlock earlier, especially if it removes perceptions of them as a 'reward' AT that's somehow supposed to be 'ubar' or 'godmode' etc.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
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Hey, we just had announced in Issue 17 that one of the "features" is that Epic ATs can now be unlocked after level 20...
What are my fellow Kheldian's thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Fair? Unfair?
Discuss....
Inquisitive minds want to know.
"Alien"
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
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