Want to hear it from you guys...

Kheldians, and even VEATs, have been in the game for a long while now. It's not really a killer thing for them to be available at 20 for newbies (and honestly, it's much faster to get to 50 now than it used to be... should I be carping about how I got my first 50/access to Kheldians when it was a longer, harder road to get there?). They're apparently tying these in with getting out of Praetoria, and leaving 50 for future developments, like the end game content Posi is working on.

I do agree that level 30 would probably be a better starting point for this, but it's not that big of a difference.

As some have wondered, I do debate whether they have plans to unlock something else at 50, but we'll see.

^Agreed. Personally I really don't care. If someone was so wanting to play a Kheld, they probably would've just PL'd a character to 50 anyway. No "hard work" would've been invovled.

When I was playing my first character, my goal wasn't to unlock a Kheldian, it was just to enjoy him. People will still do that. Besides, getting to 50 is such a breeze now, it's not like getting one is really all that special.

If anything, Kheldians will benefit from this.

As others have said, more Kheldian players means more attention will be given to the Kheldian ATs.

Furthermore, as much as experience is needed to play Kheldians, the best way to gain said experience is to PLAY Kheldians. With a Kheldian's ability of filling any role, you could argue that you don't just need one toon at 50, but you need a Blaster and Tanker for both, as well as a Scrapper for Peacebringers and a Controller for Warshades at 50 just so you become familiar with all the roles a Kheldian can and often must fill. Me? I got a Blaster to 50 but never even played a Tanker, and yet I still find myself using Dwarf form a lot.

And let's not forget that the normal ATs don't really prepare you for such an oversaturation of powers Kheldians have, and the sheer slot-drought that is a tri-form Kheldian. These things were overwhelming for me, even with a fifty under my belt. Sometimes you just gotta get your feet wet if you want to learn to swim. On that note, even if this does mean an increase in inexperienced Kheldians, aren't we known to be a particularly nice and helpful communities? Why fear "bad" players flooding the game when we can just show them the ropes?

And on THAT note, it's not that it's just newbies that'll be getting Kheldians now. This game pretty much wants you to develop altitis. You may take six months to get a toon or two to level 50, or you may take six months to get a dozen or two toons to level 20. I already heard several stories of vets from the earliest days that have only hit 50 in the past six months. So with the lowered requirements, it's not that only a bunch of newbies will start playing Kheldians now, many experiended vets will now get the chance to try Kheldians as well, probably make their own mistakes and learn to play their Kheldians.

The way I see it, aside from some people who feel this diminishes the accomplishment, the only "drawback" would be bad/inexperienced players, but really? That's an occupational hazard when it comes to MMOs, so that doesn't bother me much, anyway. Plus, I reiterate, the best way to learn to play Kheldians is playing Kheldians.

I personally like the idea. Like the devs said a long time ago, making "unlock at 50" ATs was a mistake. Since the VEATs must bypass the tutorial, it makes sense to make these unlockables, just not at such a high level.

I feel you shouldn't have to suffer through a grind just to play an AT you think is interesting. There are still six year vets who don't have level 50s.

I feel "unlock at 50" sets the "epic" to mean "better than anything else" instead of "tied into lore." Less people will misunderstand this with a lower unlock threshold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debtlover My question still remains unanswered by anyone including rednames. What is going to be the reward for first 50? There needs to be SOMETHING.

Um... purples?

On my home server I have hosted a few Epic ITF's. The team was made up of 2 Peacebringers, 2 Warshades, 2 Arachnos Soldiers and 2 Arachnos Widows and that team combos was amazing and we completed the TF with only 11 deaths and in an hour and ten min.

I dont mind them opening the AT when someone hit lvl 20. It just means once GR opens I will be able to make more Epic AT teams for TF's.

The Ocho has posted more on this question (towards the end of the post).

The move down was made because a fair amount of veterans did not have 50s yet, and with how much time has gone into the epic archetypes, they want them to be more playable by all. I completely agree with this. People will learn the ATs like any other AT, and there should be more players of them. I don't really like the "epics" having a smaller population because of the level 50 requirement.

I do hope that we will see more Khelds and more tweaking of our powers because of this. Good stuff.

Also, no more epics are "planned to be unlocked at 50." So they could be planning them for other levels (heh, total speculation on our part), or they're just focusing on the new endgame content for that.

Ghost Falcon: "Ever since Hero Epic Archetypes and Villain Epic Archetypes were introduced, we have continued to monitor the number of Epic Archetypes created. We discovered that there are many long-time Veteran players who do not have Level 50s, and were unable to unlock all the Epic Archetypes."


War Witch: "Now that we are going on six years, the majority of our loyal player base is either close to or already has more than one level 50."

I admit, I went a few years without getting to 50 - I'm an alt-o-holic, so it's understandable. I finally did get my main to 50 and unlocked Kheldians and I must say, I Love Peacebringers, particularly human-form. I'm not sure about Warshades - I prefer characters that are self-contained, but I'm working on it.

Now, it looks like the results of my 'hard work' (yeah, not so hard) is going to be changed up. I'm intrigued by the idea of post-50 content, but we don't seem to know enough about it to judge.

As for the 'early' unlocking of Kheldians... well, I guess I support a chance to try the 'awesome' earlier, however, I do think 20 is too early.

Most ATs (and players) don't seem to have a good grasp on their role and powers by then - I know I surely didn't. It all seemed (and still sometimes seems) hopeless, until the 'revelation' of Stamina and/or SOs. After that, things just seem to start making 'sense' and each new power becomes a new gift to play with.

So I'd suggest to the Devs that they open the unlocking at level 30 or 32 - Unlock your Tier 9 and unlock a new distraction at the same time.

Because there is no going back... If they open it at 30 and data-mining reveals that that's too late, then they can move it forward to 20. However, if they open it at 20... and the data-mining reveals that it's too early, they won't be able to take it back. Not without setting off a storm of protests.

I do wonder at their mention of 'veterans' without 50s... I mean, what is constituting a 'veteran', here? 12 months? 24? Or is it, "Hi, I've played CoH for three months, I'm a 'veteran' player, and I've already seen everything the game has to offer, so you'd better give me more!"?

Oh, and yes, I finally got my main villain to 50 and I've been toying with VEATs - they're pretty good and have many design features that I wish Kheldians had. Still not as flexible as a Kheldian, though.

Be Well!
Fireheart

I very recently got a level 50 Villain. VERY recently.

My highest level Hero is... About 34, I think. I've been here since launch. Even then, I've WANTED to play a Kheldian- Hell, it's why I bothered to push myself lately to level up a Hero to 34 instead of going character jumping again- But I'm the very image of a casual gamer. I don't push myself to go through missions, I don't PL, I take things slowly because I know I won't have much time to 'work' on my characters.

So now I'm being told anyone level 20 can use the Kheldian Archetype? Awesome. That means more people will play them, more people will be able to help me set it up in a way I can do a few missions, then I can casually play a Kheldian a bit as well as I did the other Archetypes.

I honestly do not see the downside. Hell, there are people complaining that a level 20 EAT means you're being 'downgraded to capes,' but what if it was 30? Then you'd be 'downgraded to auras.' Or 38? You'd be 'downgraded even below Epic Power Pools!' Come on, people. It's another archetype more newer players can use to attract them to the game more than before. There's no downside here.

I don't have strong feelings about the issue, one way or another.

I saw Khelds as this, it's not the intention but I saw them potentially as this:

Someone having got to 50 and learned the game, could make a character to level up again with filling in the teamwork holes of new players with their semi jack of all trades character.

Which was never necessarily the case and even less so now.

All that matters now is people have fun.

I'm somewhat okay with it being only lvl 20. I'm looking on the positive side and hoping that this will mean they get more attention from both the devs and players.

More people will be playing them since they can get them easier and they won't drop them the instant they realize they don't get their "self-entitled" god-mode.

Level 30-32 would have been better in my opinion but this is already at the point where they can no longer really change it. They've said its at 20 now, and you'll get a lot more grief moving things BACK than forward like this.

So hopefully they have better things in mind for Kheldians with all this. The kheldians need attention in some fashion. Other AT's get more power sets and stuff so dealing with kheldians is tricky.

I think that a lot of it is the whole "We earned it, so why do they get it for free?" mentality. I was a little miffed about that too, for about five minutes. After that I stopped caring either way. I guess it means that there will be a lot more Kheldians zipping around Atlas Park and Outbreak, and more Widows and Soldiers scampering around Mercy. I, for one, think that might be a good thing. I like teaming with well-played Kheldians, and have learned to tip-toe away from the poor ones before they bring the wrath of an entire map down on their heads. VEATs are easier to play than Kheldians, and have nice powers that boost the team, so I don't mind at ALL seeing more of them in PvE.

I rarely see either Khelds or VEATs in PvP these days, anyway. Khelds were never really effective in PvP, and the changes to Defense has made Fortunatas and Nightwidows into glass cannons again.

I am hoping that there be some worthwhile reward in the works for reaching level 50 once they do this. Khelds are rather complex to set up, and I know I personally didn't know enough about the game to have handled one when I hit 20 on my first toon. It would be intersesting to see the actual numbers of "veteran" players who havent hit 50 on either redside or blueside yet- If it would be safe to assume that anything less than a full year would IMHO not be considered "veteran". I honestly don't think we should downplay the opinions of those who have already put in the work to unlock on both sides. I was excited at the prospect of unlocking when I got my first 50 vill and hero, and I do hope they have something new planned for endgame if they plan to follow through with this. Hopefully nothing akin to WoW bumping up max level twice.

I'm with the "Well, it could have been 30 or 40" crowd, but I can understand tying it to GR and the apparent end of the Preatorian starting arcs at level 20. I don't think it hurts anything, and I think it has the potential to make Kheldians more prevalent. Win/win.

The thing is, though, would anyone support raising the level you get capes from 20 to 50? Raising auras from 30 to 50? What about 30 to 40? We're used to them being unlocked at those levels, and it would be a huge disappointment to have to wait even longer. There isn't even an incentive for reaching 40. Once you start getting up to that level, it stops being an incentive for those who just aren't interested in racing to the level cap.

We have purple IOs now, there's Hamidon, Task Forces, and so on, and supposedly new endgame content is coming. Now that Kheldians no long ARE the one and only reward for getting to level 50 I don't really see what the fuss is about.