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player a is selling an IO at 1 million, player b is selling the same IO at 1.5 million. Player C wants to buy the IO so he bids 3 million on the IO to make sure he gets it nao!!!|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Yea the supply may increase, but who is going to list their IO at less than the recent sold price.
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Player a's IO will get sold to player c while player b has lost out on this sale.
This is how the market functions and this is why you should list lower than the going rate for an IO - the lowest listing is sold to the highest buyer.
You could list IOs all day at 3 million influence and if I come in and list mine at 2,999,999 I will get the sales and you get nothing. To compete with me you have to list at 2,999,998 or lower. Now let's say you instead list at 2,499,999 - people may start buying at 2,500,000 instead of 3 million.
In this way, marketeers and flippers help to lower prices by competing for buyers.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Gawd it's that ebay nightmare all over again!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
It's thinking like this that has the market values so high that it's pushing people away from the market and the game. I know several people that complain every time they log in about how high everything is getting. It's thinking like imma buy all 20 pieces and raise the prices of it. It's ridiculous that purples are up to and over 300mil, oblits and kin com's are sometimes up to 100 mil.
I don't understand why greed runs the market. I sell EVERYTHING for 222. I care less about the "going rate" and that includes such things as Miracle: recovs up to purps. They sell for far above the 222 list BUT that's something i can't help. I've had to become a hoarder to IO my toons. I had to stop a toon at 35 just to get IO's under 50 from tickets and i farm hours per day and craft and keep in a bin what i think i might need in the future. I've even allowed people i know to come look in my bins and sell to them at 1/2 of the market rates because the prices have gotten ridiculous for alot of people.
I guess as you try to greed the inf and market pieces, i'm trying to lower it by listing everything i get for the lowest prices i can. But i'm sure there's more greedy people than there are people trying to think about everyone and not just themselves.
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Greed has nothing to do with it, it's to do with being able to afford the IO's that are so expensive they are frustratingly out of reach.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
It's thinking like this that has the market values so high that it's pushing people away from the market and the game. I know several people that complain every time they log in about how high everything is getting. It's thinking like imma buy all 20 pieces and raise the prices of it. It's ridiculous that purples are up to and over 300mil, oblits and kin com's are sometimes up to 100 mil.
I don't understand why greed runs the market. I sell EVERYTHING for 222. I care less about the "going rate" and that includes such things as Miracle: recovs up to purps. They sell for far above the 222 list BUT that's something i can't help. I've had to become a hoarder to IO my toons. I had to stop a toon at 35 just to get IO's under 50 from tickets and i farm hours per day and craft and keep in a bin what i think i might need in the future. I've even allowed people i know to come look in my bins and sell to them at 1/2 of the market rates because the prices have gotten ridiculous for alot of people. I guess as you try to greed the inf and market pieces, i'm trying to lower it by listing everything i get for the lowest prices i can. But i'm sure there's more greedy people than there are people trying to think about everyone and not just themselves. |
I have many a time suggested there should be no bidding and there should be a single price for each IO. No salvage and no recipes just IO's.... and if they drop you get a set price and if you want to buy they cost a set price....
So don't come into a constructive thread and play your "im a martyr" card on me !
"Your all greedy and I'm trying to lower the prices"......... please! you selling your piddly drop at a low price will not effect the market anymore than me asking how to flip an item.
But if it makes you feel better, do what you want... but at least do it quietly.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
IOs are sold on a market because that is a side game that got added in issue 9. The fact that things are expensive means that you have to bother to try in order to get the rare and in demand items. They aren't handed out like candy to whiny toddlers.
Like I've already pointed out you can earn millions a day without hardly trying - and when everyone can do that prices will be "absurdly" high because everyone has tons of influence to throw around. You want to earn shiny stuff - earn it. It will not be handed to you.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
If he was an actual martyr at least we'd have some fat, happy lions around here.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I do. The faster my stock moves the faster i can put more items in freed up market slots and make more inf. |
Originally Posted by Donna_
Yea the supply may increase, but who is going to list their IO at less than the recent sold price.
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Besides alot of people do not bid creep.
I may be getting less but between buyitnao spikes and selling faster i make a profit.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
I don't understand why greed runs the market.
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| I guess as you try to greed the inf and market pieces, i'm trying to lower it by listing everything i get for the lowest prices i can. But i'm sure there's more greedy people than there are people trying to think about everyone and not just themselves. |
Greed doesn't drive up the prices, demand does. It's not because there's roving packs of greedy pigs that list everything for tens of millions. It's because there are tons of players with billions of influence and nothing else to do with it.
And, let me guess, because they want the stuff and are willing to spend big bucks, that makes them the greedy pigs ruining the system, right? I know someone is going to go there. By this reasoning, your friends who complain that they can't get the stuff they *WANT* are greedy pigs too.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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True story. When we got the ability to roll Bronze thru the MA, things started hitting the redside market that almost never hit the redside market and were horrifically overpriced as a result. Specifically, Basilisk's Gaze Acc/Hold and Acc/Rech, which had both been going for 50-100m at level 30 because they were in such short supply, suddenly became obtainable. I hit one of those the first day, looked at the number bidding, looked at the rising number for sale, and realized that it was going to drop pretty quickly to 20m or below as supply shot through the roof compared to what it had been.|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Yea the supply may increase, but who is going to list their IO at less than the recent sold price.
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So I crafted the one I got with my tickets and listed it for 17m. I'd have been happy with 20m. I logged in the next day to see that it had sold for 100,000,000.
True ebilness is not asking for the most. True ebilness is figuring out how people are going to bid and pricing your item lowest so that if somebody does come in and offer up a ridiculous amount, you get the sale. The only time I price something at or above the last 5 is when there are no others for sale. Otherwise, I'm all about undercutting the competition while making sure that I get at least what I want.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Greed has everything to di with it when someone says, "hmm, what if i buy it all and relist to a stupid price so MY pockets get phat". That's out and out greed for inf.
I don't have a problem with being broke. I run 3 accounts and farm alot. I have several toons IO'd with purples, 7.5's and everything else. I've made billions by selling at a lowball price and getting what people pay me. I have no need to try to buy it all from other people that may want it for their toons.
The market is a joke. It is really unproductive to have recipes only available through luck or other people. At some point, the devs need to realize the greed that is involved with "i have what you want, NOW PAY UP". To me, that's ridiculous.
And the players don't set the prices either, imo. If someone with a ton of inf pays an astronomical amout for an IO, that's cool. But when that price gets seen, then EVERYONE starts listing at that price in hopes of getting paid that amount, there's the inflation. It becomes the norm. There should be no last sells seen. Why else can someone not place a "reasonable" bid and get it? Why else have purples went from 30mil -300mil? The drop rate didn't decrease. Everyone seen what someone could afford and now everyone has to be able to afford it or they don't get what they want. Like i said, greed.
Can't we all just IO and get along? You pat my back, i pat yours. Na, not 'round here.
As far as my global friend that was complaining. He runs 3 accounts also. (where i got the idea) He IO's the crap out of his toons but when he seen the inflation lately, he said he wasn't gonna bother. 1 bill for 1 set is too much for him. I agree, hence the reason i hoard now. I craft and keep and if someone needs something, they can just ask me and i'll sell for 1/2 the market value if their build needs it. Same with salvage. I got 8 bins full of orange. If someone needs a piece, just holler. That's the kind of person i am. Can you compare? Doubtful.
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while the drop rate hasn't decreased the number dropped has because people farm AE for tickets. they should make purps available for 9999 tickets or something like that.
| Why else have purples went from 30mil -300mil? The drop rate didn't decrease |
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Because there are more 50s now, because it's been made easier to level, and because we printed them like circus fliers when the AE came out. (Don't think for a second that a majority of AE babies were deleted.)|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Why else have purples went from 30mil -300mil? The drop rate didn't decrease. Everyone seen what someone could afford and now everyone has to be able to afford it or they don't get what they want. Like i said, greed.
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Because there are more reasons now to compel people to play at 50 rather than just start a new alt. (Plenty of people still start new alts, but you can now race to 50 and experience most of the game in reverse if you want to.)
Because people started doing things that reduced supply of purples, such as farming in the AE or playing 50s in non-50 content. (Ouro wasn't recent, but it's more recent than purples costing 30M...).
So you've got examples of forces from classic, high-school-level economics: decreases in supply and increases in demand. Either one causes an increase in price. Both cause a more dramatic increase.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
So you've got examples of forces from classic, high-school-level economics: decreases in supply and increases in demand. Either one causes an increase in price. Both cause a more dramatic increase.
Supply and demand has nothing to do with people that just wanna buy it up and resell it for higher prices. That just don't make good since to me, given that the supply is already low on certain pieces. All it's doing is hurting everyone because one day when u decide to IO a toon, you're gonna have to pay the same price the you helped drive the price up on. And i'm not refering to only purples, prices have increased 10x across the board on most recipes.
You can say it's because there's more inf, but what good is having more inf if it takes more inf to actually build a toon? Pointless if you ask me. It's like a circle.
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Refreshing!
| This message is hidden because eryq2 is on your ignore list. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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It makes perfect sense - if supply is low then a small amount of people can set the price as high as they want because other people have no choice to get it at a lower price. If supply is low and the demand is high the price will be high.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Supply and demand has nothing to do with people that just wanna buy it up and resell it for higher prices. That just don't make good since to me, given that the supply is already low on certain pieces. All it's doing is hurting everyone because one day when u decide to IO a toon, you're gonna have to pay the same price the you helped drive the price up on. And i'm not refering to only purples, prices have increased 10x across the board on most recipes.
You can say it's because there's more inf, but what good is having more inf if it takes more inf to actually build a toon? Pointless if you ask me. It's like a circle. |
You utterly fail to understand that for any given IO with reasonable supply and with multiple people trying to sell that IO the price could come down if buyers attempt to pay less for the IO instead of just bidding what the last 5 show.
I flip purples from time to time. How do I do it ? I'll bid at say 100 million on a 300-400 million going rate purple. When I relist it I don't list at 400 or 300, instead I'll relist it at 150 - 200. People could save 50% from buying off of me as opposed to other people that are selling at the 300+ mark. That requires people to not be lazy and actually attempt to save money.
Here's the thing : it's play money that is easy to get so why would someone who can make a lot of it bother paying less if they don't care ?
In issue 9 I had 8 million influence total. Now - I have 17 billion or more in liquid assets and probably about that much in slotted IOs on my toons. People have started from 0 influence on a toon and made 1 billion in a month. I can start with a couple million, go farm some AE tickets and get 20-200 million a day no problem. It is really that easy, so why sweat the cost of IOs when I can just put some effort in and get what I want.
There are 3 groups of people when it comes to the market : the haters, the smart and the obscenely rich. The obscenely rich will buy at what ever price because they can. The smart understand how the market functions and therefore can afford to get what they want if they bother to try. Then you've got the haters. They do not comprehend the market - the only thing they understand is that what they want costs more than what they have and therefor they feel wronged. The haters don't like to work for anything and they feel entitled to handouts.
As my man Kat Williams often points out - it's the haters job to hate. I know they don't get it, and that's ok. At least I can say I tried.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Except that tactic only works in the imaginations of the clueless. Not in the market.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Greed has everything to di with it when someone says, "hmm, what if i buy it all and relist to a stupid price so MY pockets get phat". That's out and out greed for inf.
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| Why else can someone not place a "reasonable" bid and get it? |
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| Why else have purples went from 30mil -300mil? The drop rate didn't decrease. Everyone seen what someone could afford and now everyone has to be able to afford it or they don't get what they want. Like i said, greed. |
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| I craft and keep and if someone needs something, they can just ask me and i'll sell for 1/2 the market value if their build needs it. Same with salvage. I got 8 bins full of orange. If someone needs a piece, just holler. That's the kind of person i am. Can you compare? Doubtful. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Except that tactic only works in the imaginations of the clueless. Not in the market.
And now the entitlement factor shows up. Who defines a reasonable price? You? hmm.... How about the market? Hello? Duh! Supply is only one side. Demand is the other. No one said the drop rate decreased, but that doesn't make greed the only other possibility. Yeah, yeah, you're a saint and a paragon of altruism. You made that clear in a previous post. |
Yea, im a saint. I'm just not all about me, like these market folks it seems. The market doesn't set a reasonable price, like i said. The playerbase buys at what the big ballers sets the price to. They have no choice. I do. I farm everyday. I don't team often at all. I pl my toons, and farm ae tix and pi for drops with my accounts.
If the drop rates were high enough that players actually had a chance to get what they want, you'd see. You wouldn't see people bidding 200mil per recipe. You don't see them bidding it for the crap ones. Why? Cause they drop more than an elephant in a parade. Meaning they can't be as easily manipulated by big baller 'tards.
And someone called this a "constructive" thread. Buying up everything to jack the market up isnt productive. Oh, i guess you mean its productive to keep the rmt'ers in business. I know 2 people has told me that they buy inf in the past week. Good job guys.
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You find niches and work those. Sometimes they go upside down and you waste slots for a week trying to sell these things that normally sold overnight, if not in hours. In that case, I usually try to break even and get with another niche. I have about seven reliable ones and I was hammering them when a goal of mine was to hit 1b.|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Is it better to find 1 recipe and stick to trying to increase the price? Or how does that work....
Fieldcrafter badge would be handy, but isn't it a nightmare to get? |
I could make about 50m on a good night and around 10m on a crappy night. Per toon doing it. I had two who were neck in neck after about 500m or so.
I decided to wait on fieldcrafter since I figure it'll cost around 200+m to craft all that unwanted crap and about 5 days of my playing time.
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Wrong. Why ? Because when more than one person is trying to sell the same thing - they compete for buyers by offering it at a lower price.| The playerbase buys at what the big ballers sets the price to. They have no choice. |
Also in order for people to flip at all, the price has to vary. Therefor anyone can put out a lower bid and get the items for less.
The only time the greed based concept you describe is possible is in two situations : the supply is so low that only a handful of people are selling a given item (purples and pvp IOs for example) or people are lazy and don't try to bid lower ( by try to bid lower I mean placing a lower bid an waiting 1-3 days depending on rarity of the IO).
If you have a constant buy it nao mentality then yes you have no choice to pay lower than what people are offering right this second. The problem is you however, not them. You CAN wait longer and get things for cheaper on almost any IO. If you don't have the patience to wait a little while longer to get your IOs then that is your problem and you shouldn't hate so hard on people that post items for high amounts because you are the one giving in to them.
Also the merit and ticket system was made for lazy whiny people that can't handle the market system. In that way you don't have to farm influence, you can farm merits or tickets instead. One way or the other you have to farm to get the items you want. That is the way MMO loot works, but the funny part is that influence is the easiest of the three things to farm specifically due to the market.
When things are selling high - you can also sell high and therefor obtain the influence to buy the higher priced goods.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Wrong. If something is too expensive, don't buy it. Real life works that way too.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
The market doesn't set a reasonable price, like i said. The playerbase buys at what the big ballers sets the price to. They have no choice.
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| Oh, i guess you mean its productive to keep the rmt'ers in business. I know 2 people has told me that they buy inf in the past week. Good job guys. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Oh another name caller. Nice. Grow up. Nothing about buying up all of one thing is contructive to the market or productive on it except for the greedy person doing it. That's whats wrong with the market. It's too easily manipulated. |
Originally Posted by Donna_
post deleted
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The whole competing thing for lower prices don't work. Want proof? Look at how everything keeps going up. If it was a good competitive lowering of the prices, then, well, the prices would be going down. Not up.
Like i said, once a "baller" pays a top dollar bid, everyone starts listing at that price to get a higher sell price. If it didn't work that way, then teh last 5 sold would be all over the place. But they aren't are they? They hover at one spot until someone pays more to get it nao, then that becomes the last 5 listed. Why else would everything keep going up?
There's nothing on the market i can't afford. But i made my billions by listing everything at 222. Odd ,huh, that one can make inf like that without trying to manipulate the market.
Also, Lohenien, i got your PM. What was the point of sending me a PM? The only thing that made any sense in that whole post was the Katt Williams part. He's a funny ****.
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Prices tend to go up because there's inflationary pressure on the supply of INF. Players gain INF by defeating mobs and completing missions, but those activities only have a chance of dropping an item to sell or use. The supply of INF is greater than the amount of things to spend it on, so prices go up as the purchasing power of INF erodes.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
The whole competing thing for lower prices don't work. Want proof? Look at how everything keeps going up. If it was a good competitive lowering of the prices, then, well, the prices would be going down. Not up.
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I agree but it doesn't help when people try to manipulate the prices of the market though. Buying low, selling high is one thing if you can get it low then sell it for whatever someone pays is totally different than the people who intentionally try to make it hard on others to make a quick buck. Someone said they were trying to do it to afford higher priced recipes. Don't they realize they're having to do what someone done? Like i said, it's a circle. Makes sense in a willy wonka world i guess.
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Originally Posted by Godpants
Prices tend to go up because there's inflationary pressure on the supply of INF. Players gain INF by defeating mobs and completing missions, but those activities only have a chance of dropping an item to sell or use. The supply of INF is greater than the amount of things to spend it on, so prices go up as the purchasing power of INF erodes.
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... what's that, Lassie? You can get an entire set of level 50 Crushing Impact recipes for under 2 million, heroside, when they used to cost 10 million per recipe? Let's go!|
Originally Posted by Godpants
Prices tend to go up because there's inflationary pressure on the supply of INF. Players gain INF by defeating mobs and completing missions, but those activities only have a chance of dropping an item to sell or use. The supply of INF is greater than the amount of things to spend it on, so prices go up as the purchasing power of INF erodes.
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/em exits stage right, pursuing a dog
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Getting greedy on list price makes sense when you're listing something you have great confidence has more demand than supply. This is why we keep seeing the prices climb on things like purples. But when it's a relatively common item, even one in high demand (LotG:Recharge), you can end up waiting a long time to cash in if you overshoot even a few % on the max price.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA