FWIW, Electric-Knight, I think you're spot on about who drives the prices.
People who want it now and already have the money to make that happen. Sellers see that, figure they can get in on that action, and list higher. The "want it now-ers" keep escalating how much they pay to have it now, and the sellers keep chasing it to keep up with the Jonses. It's a self-reinforcing cycle empowered by the things that are increasing our real Inf supply.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Well, i apologize to you Uber if you took it that way. The initial post was to the people that try to hurt the market for others. Then the snarkiness came after the posts from others. My B dood. I could care less bout the flippers or anyone just trying to make a buck. But trying to buy crap that other people really want for personal gains (in inf) is stupid. IMO. It's not in my nature, but i guess others view stuff differently. Anyways, back to farm.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm not taking your posts personally. The problem is that you're claiming that the only people making money around here are (a) flippers and (b) farmers like yourself. It's a foundation of your argument, and I'm evidence that it's not true. I'm pointing out how I'm different not because I feel personally affronted by your posts, but because it undercuts your broad generalized claims about the market, and how it's only usable by people who are willing to flip goods.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
So you missed the part where Donna was told that it probably wouldn't work because no single person could completely cut off supply for most items, and would inevitably get undercut by other people who do things like post their items for 222 and allow the lowballers to get what they want for less than the going rate?
Or did you just choose to ignore it? |
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Originally Posted by eryq2
Oh ok. Sorry. I'm sure she's the only one who thought of it or does it. And with only a few pieces to even buy, i'm sure it's really hard to do. It's good that you let me know that. Thanks.
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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Great - now you just need to realize that 95% of the people that use the market and these forums are flippers / crafters and not the manipulators.| I could care less bout the flippers or anyone just trying to make a buck. |
Your assertion that there are large amounts of manipulators is the whole thing that you have wrong and the major reason everyone here is jumping on you.
As I outlined in my 5000th post, manipulators cannot control prices on IOs that have enough supply. You your self pointed out that somethings don't sell often and there for you could go in and list it at higher amounts and it will probably sell.You identified the problem but pointed in the wrong direction.
The problem is actually supply, not manipulators, as you claim. If supply where higher, the manipulators would not be able to manipulate.
The fact of the matter is, somethings are so rare that they will be manipulated and there is nothing that will fix that that will not also break everything else.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Great - now you just need to realize that 95% of the people that use the market and these forums are flippers / crafters and not the manipulators.
Your assertion that there are large amounts of manipulators is the whole thing that you have wrong and the major reason everyone here is jumping on you. As I outlined in my 5000th post, manipulators cannot control prices on IOs that have enough supply. You your self pointed out that somethings don't sell often and there for you could go in and list it at higher amounts and it will probably sell.You identified the problem but pointed in the wrong direction. The problem is actually supply, not manipulators, as you claim. If supply where higher, the manipulators would not be able to manipulate. The fact of the matter is, somethings are so rare that they will be manipulated and there is nothing that will fix that that will not also break everything else. |
I respectfully disagree. Manipulating is a state of mind, it has nothing to do with low supply, alone. If there's only 1 piece and i don't need it, i leave it alone because someone else may. That's not me trying to be a saint, that's just the way i am.
Higher supply would help thwart that, yes, but so would people acting civilized. It's a game but real life character should play a roll in how people act wherever they are.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
Manipulating is a state of mind, it has nothing to do with low supply, alone.
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Another pearl of wisdom from the Philosopher King of the Market Forums!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Real life character and how someone behaves in a semi anonymous setting online are pretty far from the same thing.| Higher supply would help thwart that, yes, but so would people acting civilized. It's a game but real life character should play a roll in how people act wherever they are. |
Even given that fact, RL people gobble up things in short supply and sell it to the highest bidder. Look at oil companies, they do it. Even RL there are rich, obnoxious, ****** bags that will corner the market on a highly desired item.
The difference is here in game, anyone can be rich and obnoxious. Therefor yes, because there is limited supply, someone WILL manipulate.
But the thing is, that is only possible due to low supply. I can prove it to you - Numina's Convalescence uniques at level 30 are in lower supply than level 50s. Which one costs 200 million and which one costs 60 ? The higher cost one is the lower supplied one, clearly. The demand for the IO at the lower level is also higher, so people are willing to bid more to get it which allows manipulators to capitalize on the lower supply.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Agreed.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Real life character and how someone behaves in a semi anonymous setting online are pretty far from the same thing.
Even given that fact, RL people gobble up things in short supply and sell it to the highest bidder. Look at oil companies, they do it. Even RL there are rich, obnoxious, ****** bags that will corner the market on a highly desired item. The difference is here in game, anyone can be rich and obnoxious. Therefor yes, because there is limited supply, someone WILL manipulate. But the thing is, that is only possible due to low supply. I can prove it to you - Numina's Convalescence uniques at level 30 are in lower supply than level 50s. Which one costs 200 million and which one costs 60 ? The higher cost one is the lower supplied one, clearly. The demand for the IO at the lower level is also higher, so people are willing to bid more to get it which allows manipulators to capitalize on the lower supply. |
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LOL Oil companies gobble up oil ? They produce oil, then they turn it into gasoline and they do so in an insanely efficient manner. Its enough to make an industrial engineer tremble looking at their numbers.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Real life character and how someone behaves in a semi anonymous setting online are pretty far from the same thing.
Even given that fact, RL people gobble up things in short supply and sell it to the highest bidder. Look at oil companies, they do it. Even RL there are rich, obnoxious, ****** bags that will corner the market on a highly desired item. The difference is here in game, anyone can be rich and obnoxious. Therefor yes, because there is limited supply, someone WILL manipulate. But the thing is, that is only possible due to low supply. I can prove it to you - Numina's Convalescence uniques at level 30 are in lower supply than level 50s. Which one costs 200 million and which one costs 60 ? The higher cost one is the lower supplied one, clearly. The demand for the IO at the lower level is also higher, so people are willing to bid more to get it which allows manipulators to capitalize on the lower supply. |
If you don't think this is so, try and ship a gallon of anything for less than 3$
You see unlike say flippers, oil companies don't have bunches of people coming along and listing oil fields for 1$ and taking the first bid that is higher than that. There is an incredible amount of investment that goes into finding a potential field, proving it then developing it. This is done in a climate of uncertainty where they never know if their work is going to be expropriated by government or governments going insane, and they do this to be reviled by the very people their efforts help provide a comfortable life.
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At this point you have destroyed the legitimacy of your argument and are just hating out of envy.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
Agreed.
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My point with the Oil companies is that they can generally get away with selling at what ever price they want because of low supply.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
LOL Oil companies gobble up oil ? They produce oil, then they turn it into gasoline and they do so in an insanely efficient manner. Its enough to make an industrial engineer tremble looking at their numbers.
If you don't think this is so, try and ship a gallon of anything for less than 3$ You see unlike say flippers, oil companies don't have bunches of people coming along and listing oil fields for 1$ and taking the first bid that is higher than that. There is an incredible amount of investment that goes into finding a potential field, proving it then developing it. This is done in a climate of uncertainty where they never know if their work is going to be expropriated by government or governments going insane, and they do this to be reviled by the very people their efforts help provide a comfortable life. |
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
Maybe you could benefit from it but somehow i doubt it.
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Indeed, why would I want to?
It would be like eating a bowl of sawdust when foi gras was on offer.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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LOL> Get a clue.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
At this point you have destroyed the legitimacy of your argument and are just hating out of envy.
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You call the people who disagree with you immoral, liars, and children. You are simply unable to recognise the distinction between your behaviour and the behaviour of those around you; if you do it, it's good and right and with pure intent, and if someone else does it, it's bad. The amount of respect with which we treat you is directly proportionate to the amount of respect you deserve.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Post Deleted
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Thus, we regard you as a cleverly painted chicken, left in the town square on a podium.
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No, i call u immature for all teh name calling. Just as the market forum calls people "lazy" that disagree with them and talk negatively to anyone that disagrees with how the market works. Talk about hypocrits. If i really said what you were. id get banned from the forums.
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Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
You call the people who disagree with you immoral, liars, and children. You are simply unable to recognise the distinction between your behaviour and the behaviour of those around you; if you do it, it's good and right and with pure intent, and if someone else does it, it's bad. The amount of respect with which we treat you is directly proportionate to the amount of respect you deserve.
Thus, we regard you as a cleverly painted chicken, left in the town square on a podium. |
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Sure you can. Server transfers are free until the end of this month.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
I only play on Justice so i can't give you a billion inf on Virtue.
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Oh, and in case anyone wants to use the server transfers to move INF from Virtue or another server to Justice, I'm the official customs inspector there. I'll count the INF, just to make sure everything's in order and that no jerk hacking occurs. Of course, I get to keep a modest 5% of each transaction.
It's a fact.
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So, let me get this straight.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
No, i call u immature for all teh name calling. Just as the market forum calls people "lazy" that disagree with them and talk negatively to anyone that disagrees with how the market works. Talk about hypocrits.
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A player wanders in here complaining about how poor they are and how unfair it is. We (collectively) describe various simple, foolproof methods of building wealth. Said player ignores our advice in favor of their original plan of whining about how poor they are and how unfair it is. We call them "lazy".
And this makes us "hypocrits"(sic)?
Somebody needs to buy you a working dictionary.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I'll happily call you illiterate.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
No, i call u immature for all teh name calling. Just as the market forum calls people "lazy" that disagree with them and talk negatively to anyone that disagrees with how the market works. Talk about hypocrits. If i really said what you were. id get banned from the forums.
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Go ahead and speak your mind, you wouldn't be missed.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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oh snap!|
Originally Posted by godpants
sure you can. Server transfers are free until the end of this month.
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=p
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
About the original question (Or one of them) in this thread...
I completely forgot that people who've crafted enough don't need the recipe. So, there's a big answer in how/why the crafted IOs can be up there for so near (Or under) the price it would cost me to make it myself.
I'm not happy to see this thread derail so badly...
I'm no marketeer... I actually only slot my characters with standard IO's...
I'm a casual, role-playing, sometimes obsessive pew pewing fun-loving kinda gamer...
None of the above actually matters, hehe...
I occasionally visit here to read up on a little of this stuff that I really don't do (Always think that maybe I'll play the market a bit, see if I find it fun at all... pull in some Inf... Just the buy it low, sell at the stores thing. I still haven't done it though, hehe).
eryq2, I just want to say this... You're right about one thing for sure... the prices go up, and what good is making more when you just need more to buy?
This is the seemingly inevitable problem people have.
The bigger the pile, the more you're going to end up taking out of it to pay.
Here's the thing though...
Remember, I am not a marketeer... and I am very very far from being any sort of an economist.
The buyers are the ones raising the prices.
It is mostly the impatient buyer, I'm sure (Not pointing fingers for blame, just sorting through it).
When Buyer A has 300 billion in their virtual pocket... They deem item X worth tossing out whatever percentage of Inf they have.
There are plenty of other Buyers with similar amounts of Inf...
And the game is played, pushed and (I suppose) controlled by those with the bigger amounts who are willing to throw it around.
I'm not offering any moral judgment on any of this, haha.
It is what it is.
As with anything... there are more details and exceptions and whatnot... But I think that's the biggest factor.
I don't think the sellers raise the prices in this market.
I love that the lowest selling price gets the top bid.
The mechanisms are in there to help keep things down.
However, the buyers have a major burning to part with huge amounts.
The items they want are hard enough to obtain that they deem it worthy to pay high amounts for them.
Even if you list for very low... You'll get a ton for it.
The Buyers are raising the prices.
I could be wrong. That's just the way I figure it.
Just thought I'd offer my completely inexperienced and somewhat uninterested opinions in here (Not even sure why... Guess I thought this was too ugly and was hoping maybe a bit of peace could come. Just take a step back. Realize that we can all be wrong sometimes. Smile. Now fix the real world and all our problems please, thank you very much).
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan