@Poison MMs who don't heal at low level teams.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-02-07 14:35 in Masterminds
lol, the heal in poison isn't the greatest anyway, but yah, from what I can tell that sounds annoying.
That heal is a huge waste of endurance until it's properly slotted. If someone on the team is constantly dying in PvE, it's usually the fault of that player and not their teammates (see also: keeping yourself alive).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I teamed with a fellow Thugs/Poison once (level 45+) and Alkaloid was the only power he had from his secondary... and he didn't use it. He did, on the other hand, have all 3 of the pistol attacks, the two attacks from the fighting pool and the entire medicine pool. I seldom give a damn about my team mates playstyles unless they're causing repeated team wipes, but seeing him taking useless pot shots at the +2 Paragon Protector Elites we were fighting was maddening...
Teamed with another, this time a Mercs/Poison (level 25 or so) who asked me what Weaken and Envenom were. I did my best to explain, but nonetheless in the next fight he spent all his time taking shots at the enemies with his rifle as usual.
What is it about /poison that makes it such a badly played set?
Pre-I13 I used to watch a thugs/poison pwn heroes in RV.The best one was when a pocket emp and Stone tank thought they were going to take down that mm.
It was a truly awesome fight,needless to say that MM took that tank out and killed the emp.
Quote:
Having once had a retard of a stalker trying to tank a Hero while I was on my /Pain MM and later blaming me for his endless faceplanting for not healing him exclusively, I have to get this off my chest.|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
STOP shooting the mob and heal your teammates or use your poison. Wow, that level 26 played like a level 1. He just kept using his dual pistol attacks. Faith in player base dropping.
|
MASTERMINDS ARE NOT HEALERS. WE ARE NOT YOUR PERSONAL MEDICS. IF YOU'RE FACEPLANTING OVER AND OVER YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!!
Quote:
Yep my faith in the pbase drops everytime I read a post like this. I've strongly believed for years that players should build their toons to be able to solo.|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
STOP shooting the mob and heal your teammates or use your poison. Wow, that level 26 played like a level 1. He just kept using his dual pistol attacks. Faith in player base dropping.
|
Masterminds are support toons yes, but they're meant to support their pets not teammates.
"waa waa waaa, i died cuz the h3al3rs teh suxxor"
Ever stop to look at why your toon was dying?
Quote:
So I assume you've leveled a /poison mm yes?|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
STOP shooting the mob and heal your teammates or use your poison. Wow, that level 26 played like a level 1. He just kept using his dual pistol attacks. Faith in player base dropping.
|
And you would know that it's not a very good heal, and an endurance hog at that correct?
Are players not allowed to build an all out offensive mastermind and take the pistol attacks? He's playing the way he wants, and doesn't heal you with a subpar heal. Boohoo. Cry more.
Quote:
Normally it's the user behind the wheel, seeing as how previous posts are /poison mm's that just keep using their uselsss guns/arrows/blasters. they do decent damage but are murder on the end. (got no quams with the necro moves |
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
What is it about /poison that makes it such a badly played set?
|
)/poison can be bad or good, depending on how much you want it to work. Alkaloid can heal for a good +350 or so once you get up in levels and slap some numina io's in there. Envenom is sick against bosses, you can watch their hp bar go down way faster right before your eyes after 3 applications of it, not to mention that envenom's and weaken's recharge are both pretty fast.
Elixir of life is a good rez, hell any rez is a good rez.
paralytic poison is great too on bosses and annoying mobs like sappers, especially when you throw in a proc for +mag2
Poison Trap is great when you have some stealth pool on the go. Run in, drop it, attack. win.
Noxious gas is great on pets. Moar procs in it = more fun
It's no bubble death show, you have to do a little more work, but if you treat it like, I dunno, traps I guess, and constantly spam your debuffs, you will get pretty good mileage out of /poison.
I used to hate my merc mm until I bit the bullet and put some effort into his build.
Anyone who would take any secondary and not choose any of the moves, unless it's for concept reasons, is beyond me. As far as the mm arrow/blaster/gun attacks go, the majority skips them. Personally I think they should cut down on the end used for them, but that's another story.
I won't argue about a mastermind that uses pistols instead of alkaloid, but I have a big beef with a mastermind that uses pistols instead of Envenom and Weaken. Get in the GAME. Debuff some foes!!
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
QR,
I am running a Nin/Pois MM at level 28-ish and this weekend was actually invited to a couple of Pugs. With the mish cranked up my focus was on using the Debuffs first and then respawning my pets.
There was no way with how weak my Alkaloid is slotted that it would have made any difference. In fact I dropped it on the brute a few times and laughed because the 100 heal looked like it did nothing.
As long as the MM is debuffing I say learn to use inspirations over trying to determine why they aren't healing you. Any pug I have ever done I make sure I take care of myself first with inspirations and if I get a heal or buff from a teammate I call it gravy.
Murph
Murph's 50s:
H: Tank, Cont, Def, Scrapper, Blaster, Bane
V: MM x5, Corr x2, Stalker, Dom, Fort
Anyone who uses /Poison for little is like someone using Empathy as a 'Healzorz' set.
Its a debuff set. It is NOT a heal set. Alkaloid is an endurance hogging little shite, and thats when its slotted.
Advice; Die less, phail less, don't team with morons.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Q! F! T! \m/
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Its a debuff set. It is NOT a heal set.
Advice; Die less, phail less, don't team with morons. |
Coming Storm (OP) from what the experts here are telling you, don't feel bad because someone says a poison user phails at a role that isn't really the poison users role. Not using the debuffs is what really is teh suk. Also, don't forget that alkaloid makes a good resistance buff against toxic attacks like snakes and arachnos toxic tarantulas. I wouldn't suggest spamming it, but alkaloid on your guy taking the alpha could make a significant difference.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
Two things: You can only use Noxious Gas on pets. It does not take ANY set IOs, so you cannot proc it out. |
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Noxious gas is great on pets. Moar procs in it = more fun
|
...that is all
Quote:
Agreed, I'd much rather see powers like Alkaloid used proactively instead of re-actively when appropriate.
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Coming Storm (OP) from what the experts here are telling you, don't feel bad because someone says a poison user phails at a role that isn't really the poison users role. Not using the debuffs is what really is teh suk. Also, don't forget that alkaloid makes a good resistance buff against toxic attacks like snakes and arachnos toxic tarantulas. I wouldn't suggest spamming it, but alkaloid on your guy taking the alpha could make a significant difference.
|
Quote:
Elixir has an entertainment value of making teammates stop to puke, as well, IIRC.|
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Elixir of life is a good rez, hell any rez is a good rez.
|
Quote:
| Poison Trap is great when you have some stealth pool on the go. Run in, drop it, attack. win. |
Quote:
| Noxious gas is great on pets. Moar procs in it = more fun |
Solo I used to rely on Alkaloid a lot to keep the pets alive. Then some kind forumites explained Bodyguard Mode to me*, I picked up Provoke, and suddenly the pets weren't dying as much, and neither was I. Nowadays I don't use it nearly as much, mainly because the enemies are either so Weakened they're not doing serious damage, or so Envenomed they're... well, dead.
But, it can be a useful extra heal in a bad situation, and if I'm teamed and I see one of my teammates' health bars going into the red I'll use it. I'd certainly use it in preference to the one pistol attack I kept, which I only use for laughs.
*my first thread in this forum was titled something like "Is Bodyguard Mode Overated?" Yes, I cringe to think of it now...
Quote:
Yup, the teammates still puke lol|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Elixir has an entertainment value of making teammates stop to puke, as well, IIRC.
Um... sure you're not thinking of /traps Poison Trap? /Poison's poison trap's biggest plus is that you can skip it and not feel guilty. er... you can *only* put it on pets. And there are no allowed enhancement set categories on it. |
You don't use poison trap? I dunno, it works for me.
Yah that's what I meant, good for pets, only for pets, stinky pets.
I have Thug/Poison and my attacks are Mu and Staff. Used to take Dual Pistols for the looks but usually by the time I get to use it, I was pointing it down and shoot at a dead body. Most people don't know how to play an MM well, and even harder to play a Poison MM. Alkaloid is only decent after it's slotted up. I've used it to hold together teams when I was the only "healer". Heck many a times I put myself in danger running after teamates who ran away when they were taking hits. Fine and dandy in PvE but in PvP that's like putting a target sign on my back with sirens going. MM away from his pets is a dead MM.
Biggest complain for Poison is no self heal. Group heal would be awesome. Aid Self is crap in zone.
So yeah just because someone plays an MM does not mean he really knows how to play it and just because he has Poison does not mean he knows how to use it.
Gotta learn to watch out for your own hide.
Quote:
Maybe giving it to corruptors will help, considering corruptors are more commonly played in groups nowadays and actually have a higher chance that the player behind the wheel isnt a complete moron. From my experience it seems there's no middle ground with Mastermind skill, either the're terrible and deserve to have their characters deleted (about 94% of MMs), or are so amazing that I get jealous (6% of MMs). And this has nothing to do with powerset choices just the class in general. The whole concept is cool at first, but getting it to work is a real pain. |
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
What is it about /poison that makes it such a badly played set?
|
The best way to handle someone who is just a bad player is to help them out rather than yell at them for being bad. If no one steps up to offer help and/or guidance to the terrible players then we'll just have a bunch of terible players forever.
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
|
Quote:
I think part of it is down to Masterminds being Easy Mode. If you leave the difficulty sliders at their default you can sleepwalk through just about anything. The player I mentioned with all the pool powers was surprised that I was running the team on Relentless, which (pre-I16) I'd always considered the default setting for a high level team.|
Originally Posted by Black_Marrow
From my experience it seems there's no middle ground with Mastermind skill, either the're terrible and deserve to have their characters deleted (about 94% of MMs), or are so amazing that I get jealous (6% of MMs). And this has nothing to do with powerset choices just the class in general. The whole concept is cool at first, but getting it to work is a real pain.
|
/Poison's big problem is that the two core powers of the set - Weaken and Envenom - do no damage and don't even have a particularly noticeable visual effect. Until you look at what they're doing under the hood so to speak it's easy to get the impression that they're not doing much at all.
(Or until you get hit with them yourself. In a PvP duel a /poison MM hit my stalker with Weaken. My primary was Ninja Blade/ but for the next few attacks I felt like I'd repecced into Kitten Melee/.)
Quote:
Why does every one think MMs are easy when there not that easy? You have to be multi focused if you want to be a GOOD MM yes, but compared too other toons they can be a challenge really challenging if you have a full team to help also.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I think part of it is down to Masterminds being Easy Mode. If you leave the difficulty sliders at their default you can sleepwalk through just about anything. The player I mentioned with all the pool powers was surprised that I was running the team on Relentless, which (pre-I16) I'd always considered the default setting for a high level team.
/Poison's big problem is that the two core powers of the set - Weaken and Envenom - do no damage and don't even have a particularly noticeable visual effect. Until you look at what they're doing under the hood so to speak it's easy to get the impression that they're not doing much at all. (Or until you get hit with them yourself. In a PvP duel a /poison MM hit my stalker with Weaken. My primary was Ninja Blade/ but for the next few attacks I felt like I'd repecced into Kitten Melee/.) |
MMs as they stand now drain so much end with super high end costing powers and low effect its sad. MMs where made for the villains to act like a tank by buffing there pets not like defender/controller/corrupter. MMs are awsome toons if played right and built right. I wouldnt want a MM to be my defender in a battle because of the lower debuff/buff stats but i would want them for dmg like a blaster/scrapper or tank if they can but now with the end drain they get its hard.
... ok sorry to ramble on its just some people get MMs to join there team for buff/debuffig and think they should be buffing the team only not doing dmg or tanking and the MM is so much more then just a buff/debuffer.
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
You know i was just thinking of these but that may be why we have so many MMs that have no clue of how to play them because they no longer have a set role to play in villain side any way team.
Stalkers:act more like blasters but are now used more like scrappers
Brutes: act more like scrappers but are played like tanks and have a taunt and punchvoke which makes then act more like tanks
Corrs:Act more like defenders but are played like blasters sometimes
Doms: well they do act and seem to be played like controllers
MMs: where made to be alpha takers (aka tank) but because of the player base didnt
accept it like that they lost there main reason to be teamed with.
We can all agree MMs are not first picks to most teams cause of the randomness in how they are played this may be the reson why so many players play MMs so different. Cause i have had MM act more like defenders blasters and even tanks some did good some didnt. I also agree its more on how they are played then what powers they have. So from one ramble to and ideal ramble maybe this can give another point of view on the MM not healing or doing what one or another person thinks they should be doing.
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
well as far as PuGs go, you're bound to come across mixed opinions as to what your mm should be doing in a team. My policy is to ask the team what's needed from me if I can't tell already. If there's no Br00tsmash on the team, I'll take alpha. If no Corr, I'll make a face like a H34lzorr, buffer, whatever. If there's both on the team, I just ask the star holder what's the best role for me to play. As long as there's good team communication, we MM's can do pretty much anything.
STOP shooting the mob and heal your teammates or use your poison. Wow, that level 26 played like a level 1. He just kept using his dual pistol attacks. Faith in player base dropping.