@Poison MMs who don't heal at low level teams.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-02-07 14:35 in Masterminds
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*facepalm*
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Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
Masterminds are support toons yes, but they're meant to support their pets not teammates.
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Poison Trap is the worst power in /Poison. It's one of the best powers in /Traps, but that's because Poison.Poison Trap and Traps.Poison Trap are VERY different powers.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
You don't use poison trap? I dunno, it works for me.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
(poison) Poison Trap Place Trap: PBAoE, Foe Hold, Sleep, -Endurance
(traps) Poison trap Place Trap: PBAoE, Foe Hold(Special), -Regen, -Recharge
Hey yah you're right! I still stick by it, slotted with some Acc it's helped my merc/ MM. I do find that without the Acc slotting it doesn't hit very well though.
Poison.Poison Trap's sleep is a short duration, and can't be enhanced for accuracy. The endurance drain is so small that it might as well not exist. The hold is its only redeeming value, but both the sleep and hold only have a 2% chance of occurring once per second for 30 seconds, and can miss.
Traps.Poison Trap, on the other hand, is guaranteed to hold the targets in the initial burst (barring a miss), and will floor the target's regen and reduce their recharge for the entire duration of the gas. While the pulsing hold is similar to Poison's version (2% chance every second for 30 seconds), the hold is longer, and isn't subject to missing.
In short:
Poison - useless sleep, useless endurance drain, might hold a target for a bit.
Traps - Amazing regen debuff, good recharge debuff, and good chance to hold the target for a fair amount of time. (And, in fact, during the first 6-12s of the trap exploding, it's possible to stack the inital hold with the pulsing one)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
Yep my faith in the pbase drops everytime I read a post like this. I've strongly believed for years that players should build their toons to be able to solo.
Masterminds are support toons yes, but they're meant to support their pets not teammates. "waa waa waaa, i died cuz the h3al3rs teh suxxor" Ever stop to look at why your toon was dying? |
Masterminds are support toons, yes, but they're meant to support their pets, and teammates, either directly or indirectly, via rezzes, or if you're /Traps, some form of crowd control, and a team +Def +Hold +KB protection with the bubble, and leadership skills.
Poison is meant to debuff the ever living @#$@ out of their target, AV or otherwise. Not heal, if you want a MM that can heal, /dark /pain /thermal will do.
And, if you know how to use a mastermind, well...
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Heh, pre-I16, my default operation on any of my (7 on Justice, alone) MMs was to crank the difficulty up a notch every 10th level, i.e. +1 at 10, +2 at 20, etc.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I think part of it is down to Masterminds being Easy Mode. If you leave the difficulty sliders at their default you can sleepwalk through just about anything. The player I mentioned with all the pool powers was surprised that I was running the team on Relentless, which (pre-I16) I'd always considered the default setting for a high level team.
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Now I have more flexibility to do things like solo BNY missions at x8 and start at -1, upping the diff on each pass, til I get killed.
Every player is going to vary in their play style, but MMs are (more so than many ATs) not for everyone. They need a very different mindset, have their own finesse, PARTICULARLY on teams. But, as stated before, if you're relying on an MM to heal your butt, you should have PUG'd with a Corr. MMs that have an ounce of sense are debuffing your opponents, buffing you (if that's an option), tying up annoying ambushes (i.e. "distractions"), harassing the LTs around the EB/AV *you're* fighting (i.e. "other distractions"), throwing their disposable minions in harm's way, and healing THEM so they keep the heat off of YOU.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Amen.
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Short version MMs are self teams. Also MMs are villain side tanks(or atleast the ideal was to be). Glad some one understands this.
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Heh, pre-I16, my default operation on any of my (7 on Justice, alone) MMs was to crank the difficulty up a notch every 10th level, i.e. +1 at 10, +2 at 20, etc.
Now I have more flexibility to do things like solo BNY missions at x8 and start at -1, upping the diff on each pass, til I get killed. Every player is going to vary in their play style, but MMs are (more so than many ATs) not for everyone. They need a very different mindset, have their own finesse, PARTICULARLY on teams. But, as stated before, if you're relying on an MM to heal your butt, you should have PUG'd with a Corr. MMs that have an ounce of sense are debuffing your opponents, buffing you (if that's an option), tying up annoying ambushes (i.e. "distractions"), harassing the LTs around the EB/AV *you're* fighting (i.e. "other distractions"), throwing their disposable minions in harm's way, and healing THEM so they keep the heat off of YOU. |
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sounds about right. S'wat I do.
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Heh, pre-I16, my default operation on any of my (7 on Justice, alone) MMs was to crank the difficulty up a notch every 10th level, i.e. +1 at 10, +2 at 20, etc.
Now I have more flexibility to do things like solo BNY missions at x8 and start at -1, upping the diff on each pass, til I get killed. Every player is going to vary in their play style, but MMs are (more so than many ATs) not for everyone. They need a very different mindset, have their own finesse, PARTICULARLY on teams. But, as stated before, if you're relying on an MM to heal your butt, you should have PUG'd with a Corr. MMs that have an ounce of sense are debuffing your opponents, buffing you (if that's an option), tying up annoying ambushes (i.e. "distractions"), harassing the LTs around the EB/AV *you're* fighting (i.e. "other distractions"), throwing their disposable minions in harm's way, and healing THEM so they keep the heat off of YOU. |
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The Poison Trap power of the poison set is more like sleep gas, its a power that can be easily skipped, but to each their own. |
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Yup, the teammates still puke lol
You don't use poison trap? I dunno, it works for me. Yah that's what I meant, good for pets, only for pets, stinky pets. |
Alkaloid is meant to help support your pets and keep them going more then it is to help your teammates.
As to the Op, cry moar plz.
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Thank you and fleeting for the poison trap lesson. My only gripe now is that it should be the same as the /traps version, but that's probably preaching to the choir. >.>
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Originally Posted by Nericus
The Poison Trap power of the poison set is more like sleep gas, its a power that can be easily skipped, but to each their own.
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I rarely heal my pets when I'm teamed, and given the choice between a teammate or a pet I'd heal the teammate, since compared to the easily resummoned pet, a teammate (usually) has more powers and slightly better AI.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
Alkaloid is meant to help support your pets and keep them going more then it is to help your teammates.
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Believe me the opinion that Poison's trap power should be like the /trap set has been stated many times over the years. Yet it seems they decided that Noxious gas fits the bill instead.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Thank you and fleeting for the poison trap lesson. My only gripe now is that it should be the same as the /traps version, but that's probably preaching to the choir. >.>
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To each their own, when I team and there is a healer on the team then I focus more on keeping my bots online and bringing the firepower and let the healer do their thing.
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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I rarely heal my pets when I'm teamed, and given the choice between a teammate or a pet I'd heal the teammate, since compared to the easily resummoned pet, a teammate (usually) has more powers and slightly better AI.
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I have Two Masterminds, a ninja/dark and a necro/dark. I have soloed almost every elite boss there is Villain side, and soloed 8 archvillain/heroes; two of those were done without a Shivan (I can't remember how many elite bosses were done without the shivan). I typically run missions where all I will see is red and purple enemies, and (i am newly returned to the game) spawning at 4-5 team size.
That being said, I always tell teams with which I play that I will only heal them if they are close enough to my minions to catch the heal. Typically I am playing within melee range, and so the only characters stupid enough to not catch the heal are ranged characters too dumb to move in close and stop aggroing everything that breaths, or melee ATs that run away.
I do a very good job at keeping people alive, don't get me wrong; however, there are inevitably people who scream when they die, and complain that I didn't heal them fast enough, or rez them at the time and place of their choosing. To these complainers, I have one, and only one response:
"I can make more experience per hour soloing my missions than I can teaming with people who are dumber than my pets. Why would I waste my heals on someone I cannot control with my 15-odd macros?"
I don't mean to sound bitter, but you players need to realize that MMs are built to heal and/or protect their pets, not heal/protect players (although this happens all the time). While most MM players suck, there is a small percentage that simply make a judgement call, and decide that the survival of their minion will help their team more than the survival of you.
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While I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, there are times when your pets simply do not survive.|
Originally Posted by _Ethereal_
I have Two Masterminds, a ninja/dark and a necro/dark. I have soloed almost every elite boss there is Villain side, and soloed 8 archvillain/heroes; two of those were done without a Shivan (I can't remember how many elite bosses were done without the shivan). I typically run missions where all I will see is red and purple enemies, and (i am newly returned to the game) spawning at 4-5 team size.
That being said, I always tell teams with which I play that I will only heal them if they are close enough to my minions to catch the heal. Typically I am playing within melee range, and so the only characters stupid enough to not catch the heal are ranged characters too dumb to move in close and stop aggroing everything that breaths, or melee ATs that run away. I do a very good job at keeping people alive, don't get me wrong; however, there are inevitably people who scream when they die, and complain that I didn't heal them fast enough, or rez them at the time and place of their choosing. To these complainers, I have one, and only one response: "I can make more experience per hour soloing my missions than I can teaming with people who are dumber than my pets. Why would I waste my heals on someone I cannot control with my 15-odd macros?" I don't mean to sound bitter, but you players need to realize that MMs are built to heal and/or protect their pets, not heal/protect players (although this happens all the time). While most MM players suck, there is a small percentage that simply make a judgement call, and decide that the survival of their minion will help their team more than the survival of you. |
My only 50 right now is a Necro/PD/SM and I like to THINK that I can play effectively, but the truth is I've been playing the game for just over a year and have no clue how to properly even start to deck her out with sets and bonuses to be as effective as possible.
My usual routine is to pop WoP on the entire group for a nice buff before rushing into a good sized spawn with my pets on bodyguard, only to let out an Anguishing Cry to call in aggro and debuff. I then stand around firing off SM's hold and the occasional soothe on pets and players. It tends to work well.
On the other hand, Poison is a different beast entirely and I don't know how well I'd do with it...yet.
Far as my understanding of poison goes. It's awesome debuff set. Espcialy great for horribly weakening single strong targets till 38 when you can slap a debuff centered on a pet into a crowd.
That said, leveling up the set is a pain and a half because it will suck down endurance like water and if you are using the sole heal, water in a desert. Surviving the difficulty of keeping my endurance up till I could slot and pick up powers for it is what made Poison a hard set for me.
The mastermind forum just got defendered! Good game, OP.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.