Im curious.....

If the Warshades and Peacebringers can keep there toggles up, even when mezzed, like anything else, why are there so few of them now days?

I always wanted to play a Human Only PB in the past, but never could do it very well, because 1 Mez of any kind, would knock all my Damage Resist Toggles down, and id be completly naked till I got them back up.

Now, the toggles stay on, and even Dwarf was upped when it comes to damage.Is there a reason why people aviod playing these improved juggernaughts more then they did before?

i avoid playing them because of the void hunter/quantums/cysts, any of that bull that spawns because of them.

PB and WS are fun to use because they have neat powers and cool sound effects, i absolutely hate being forced to fight an enemy group that does an overly huge amount of dmg to you.

if they did not force you to fight the void/quantum stuff then i would have a lvl 50 of both like a year ago, but until we get an option to turn off that flag that makes those things spawn, i will minimally use the toon unless im doing a tf with it.

Because you'll still see some people with (currently) incorrect information from back when they were released.

Because some people still misunderstand "epic" (per the devs - they're using the 'tied to a story,' not 'zomggodlike' - yes, even in VEATs) and expect to be invulnerable while one-shotting AVs or some such.

Because some people are, for some reason, afraid of the extra XP from seriously nerfed Voids and Quantums. They're roughly as big a threat as a bad haircut, yet I'll still see the occasional Kheld hide until they're dead without even bothering to find out how weak of an enemy they are for themselves. Of course, acting like that makes *other* people less likely to want them around or try them.

Because some people can't get over "Nova's not as powerful as my level 50 blaster, Dwarf's not as powerful as my level 50 tank" and can't seem to grasp they're not *supposed* to be - the ability to change roles is what Khelds do.

Because there's not a "perfect build" to copy because of all the variation (human, bi or tri form, for starters) in Khelds.

Related, not being able to work out "slot starvation" in a triform (even with frankenslotting available since IOs came out, which would make these peoples Kheld lives much easier.)

Of course, some just don't like the play style, which you'll find for any AT or powerset.

ObUphillInTheSnowBothWays: Frankly, Khelds are worlds easier to play than when I started mine. Got my blaster to 50 in I4, started a Kheld immediately - with full strength Qs and Vs, no debt relief, no patrol XP, debt starting earlier, no IOs, no market to get HOs from, etc. They're almost *too* easy now. Still loved every minute of it.

See my Guides and Tutorials

At a guess, I would say it's people's perception of them. Depending on when a given player last tried a Kheldian, there's any one of a number of (now) false impressions that might keep someone from playing one.

1) Quantum/Voids. They used to a Nictus damage and Negative Energy, the Nictus component of which was unresistable. It hurt. A lot. Now they just do Negative Energy, which Kheldians resist very nicely once you have your armor toggles / Dwarf Form. So these guys really aren't the threat they once were, but many people don't know that.

2) Shadow Cysts. These once spawned as AVs, which was a huge pain for any team unlucky enough to catch one. Again, these aren't the threat they used to be and now typically only present a problem for unwary teams who charge right into them headlong.

3) Inherent not woirking in the forms. Now it does.

4) Invention Set Bonuses not applying in the forms. They always have.

5) Unrealistic expectations. Some people expect the Kheldians, as an unlocked AT, to be some kind of broken godmode AT. It isn't and shouldn't be, but some people continue to have those expectations and to drop the AT when it, predictably enough, isn't an instant "I Win" button.

There's a second type of unrealstic expectations as well that attempts to shoehorn Kheldians into an existing role. For example, making a 'scrapper' PB, then complaning that he's not as good as _____ Scrapper. Well, that's because he's not a Scrapper. When you try to make a generalist into a specialist and then complain he's not as good as the specialist in that specialist's niche (i.e. not as good at scrapping as a Scrapper - well, yeah), you really have no one to blame but yourself.

6) Personal dislike of the powers/forms/backstory concept. Not much to do about this one - everyone has something they dislike. It's possible that power customization, if we get it for Khelds, will address some of this. I can't really blame someone who, in a game noted for its immense character customization options, doesn't really want to look just like everyone else (in forms, at any rate).



I should also point out that while the toggles remain up when mezzed they aren't doing you any good while the mez is active. They suppress. It wasn't clear from the OP whether or not that was understood. So you're still naked while mezzed, just prettier.


Edit: Bill said essentially the same thing I did, but typed it faster. Curse you, Bill!

Well, my reasons;

Endurance. Endurance use on a Kheldian before level 20 is crippling outside of the forms. I dont care what people say about slotting, I tried it. It didnt work. You will be out of endurance every damn fight.

Cysts and Quantums. Cysts are irritating. I only recently found out there is a way to make them spawn less fluffies of doom, but their still a royal PITA for me.
Quantums...I really dont buy what people say about the damage nerf to them. I get the feeling some bit of code might have broken, somewhere, because Quantums still seem to do ungodly damage levels to Khelds, both mine when I had them and other peoples. /Opinion

PB attack sounds. A small niggle, but a contributing factor to me deleting the PB I was working on was that god-awful chime sound which plyed *every* attack. It was literally giving me a headache, and I dont get them easily.

Non-solo friendly. People say they are, and I admit that when I got my PB to 20-ish and was tri-forming, things did get quite a bit easier...but that was because it was nigh impossible for it to get any harder.
Kheldians are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. The people who mostly say Kheldians are solo friendly and will opose this view tend to be the ones who have high level and slotted ones. /Opinion

Personal tastes. Not every AT is for everyone. I also cant find myself enjoying controllers or dominators. HEATs are just another AT that doesnt quite do it for me.


They do get a better story-line than VEATs, though. Even if Vahzilok are pure evil to fight at low levels >_>
...And I'm now tempted to try rolling a Warshade, to try again...meh, I'm a sucker for punishment sometime >_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

even since the voids/quantums did get their dmg slightly nerfed,they still can do a huge amount of dmg. an even lvl leutenant can still 3-4 shot my PB with all the dmg toggles AND the fact that their weapons hae sow effect, high chance of KB, and high chance to stun, as soon as ne of them gets a hit on you and your out of break frees and/or dont have dwarf form, then your just going to die.

What made me come back to Peacebringers and Warshades was the change in their Inherent Powers, making them keep their effects even when transformed. For someone like me with a pretty good group of players I can count on to team with, my Kheldians are VERY powerful. I very often run on full or nearly full teams, so I usually have some really nice boosts to my attack, resistance, and mez protection that add to the boosts that my forms give me. There are times where my Peacebringer's Nova form's attacks can dish out more hurt than most blasters, and its Dwarf form can take more punishment than the tank. With a good mind for the number and types of buffs coming in from your team, making form and attack decisions as a Kheldian gets a little more depth.

Formerly, it was just "Nova form AoEs to Dwarf Form PBAoE to Human Form PBAoE and Photon Seekers". Now I can use more of my powers in ways that previously wouldn't be effective.

I haven't had access to the Kheldians for very long, but for me they are really hard to "pick up". I don't plan to abandon them, I really like both characters, but while both sit at 14, I get the impression that they are going to take a dedication and focus that some of the other ATs do not require.

So you will see my Khelds running around at some point, but not until I really have the time to make them worth playing. And that can't be an entirely unique sentiment.

hehe lvl 14 isnt a good indication of how the kheldians play. Especially for WS, at first i just was bored playing mine, but when i got stygian circle it started getting better... and better.... and BETTER! Now it is my favorite AT, but at the begining it was just a bore to play lol.

I don't suggest I know the AT by 14. But by 14 I do get the sense this isn't a casual AT, is what I am saying.

For my part, Kheldians are an extremly "busy" AT and require more micromanagement than others. I've played dominators, defenders and masterminds all using keybinds, and Khelds are still more work than all those others.

Yeah, I think that's mostly the form-switching at work. You want to adjust on the fly and be active with what you have on, what powers you are activating, etc. Every encounter can have (or maybe require) a different approach.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but that's not as simple as my Scrappers are, who mostly dash in and starting beating stuff up. The most tricky thing they have to do is reposition for better AOE sometimes, and not that often.

I don't find my Khelds to be that much more work or less active than my Blasters or Controllers, though.