15 scrappers in RV, 2 tanks, 2 blasters, 0 trollers, 0 defenders.
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2010-01-26 07:30 in Everything about PvP
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Important part is bolded.|
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
Which numbers are you referring to? Apparently a recap is required here because a lot of people responding seem to be confused as to what I actually said, which was simply this: For myself playing an emp in zone pvp I view the changes as a challenge not a frustration.
Where "numbers" come into it or any of the other stuff (doms???) people are bringing up, I don't know. |
Sure, heals are HD'd now, but realize, in I12, you had to throw CMs constantly, becuase if you didn't, the person would be dead. Back then, you might have 3 or 4 seconds to throw that heal compared to the 9000000000000000000000000 seconds you have now. Also, people generally were smart enough to turn the emp into sushi then, now, not-so-much.
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So you're saying a defender (a person that plays the support role), should be able to knock out a tank (AKA meatshield)? Yeah, cause that makes sense. Sounds like a very balanced game you have going on in your head. I'm all for a bit of balancing, and if the defender in question has a better build and player than the tank, the fender should be able to win--but not to the point where it doesn't matter which AT you're playing. Rock getting the #$#@ kicked out of it by scissors is dumb. |
Originally Posted by EnD_Reitanna
You wanna tell me that when tanker can manage from vill base to hero base while being chased by 8+ ppl and drinking tea while doing so, isn't broken? That the fact that tanks can do 500dmg with range attacks, have 3000+HP, high res and def and widow can only blast for 80, have lolsy def, no res, no heals, no HP isnt broken? Or that you can get 3 shotted by proced psi em while you are trying to pew pew them with ****** defender dmg and DR'ed and resisted on top of that debuffs? CMON
i12 was unbalanced, but it allowed varierity, and as was said it allowed "odd ball" cases. Now it is just psi ems, mind fires, elec therms for duels; psi ems and emps for team and tankers/ regen scraps for zone. What happend to roles like mez, disruption(sure there is some but it is lolsy compared to pre i13)...SUPPORT? Blaster/emp combo was indeed strong on but you still could kill those quite fast if you know what you are doing. Now emping in zones is probably most frustrating role ever. |
That said, having certain builds that can own everything in sight *cough*perma dom*cough* is ridiculous. To continue on with my rock-paper-scissors analogy, bringing lava to the table in a roshambo game ruins the fun.
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400 pt fossilizes are balanced.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
So you're saying a defender (a person that plays the support role), should be able to knock out a tank (AKA meatshield)? Yeah, cause that makes sense. Sounds like a very balanced game you have going on in your head. I'm all for a bit of balancing, and if the defender in question has a better build and player than the tank, the fender should be able to win--but not to the point where it doesn't matter which AT you're playing. Rock getting the #$#@ kicked out of it by scissors is dumb.
That said, having certain builds that can own everything in sight *cough*perma dom*cough* is ridiculous. To continue on with my rock-paper-scissors analogy, bringing lava to the table in a roshambo game ruins the fun. |
err.. wait.
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That was a general statement.|
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
Which numbers are you referring to? Apparently a recap is required here because a lot of people responding seem to be confused as to what I actually said, which was simply this: For myself playing an emp in zone pvp I view the changes as a challenge not a frustration.
Where "numbers" come into it or any of the other stuff (doms???) people are bringing up, I don't know. |
The "numbers don't lie" was in reference to the extremely low amount of i13 supporters, people currently pvping, useful powers and viable builds to play, and blah blah blah the list goes on. These are all indicators that pvp sucks.
You fall into the category of i13 supporters who just don't get it.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I've never seen a 400 pt fossilize myself (even slotted for damage, I don't see it being more than 200-300), but again, there is a reason defenders are called squishies. You know going into the build that damage/resistance is minimal. I don't see why you expect that to change JUST for pvp.
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Originally Posted by black_barrier
400 pt fossilizes are balanced.
err.. wait. |
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Why bother targeting the Emp now when you can just hurf-a-durf damage spam on the Blaster until the Emp can't actually heal him? (This is under zone rules of course, but even under arena rules it still almost makes more sense to target the offense instead of the buffs/disruption these days because of the focus on "damage damage damage.")|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
Also, people generally were smart enough to turn the emp into sushi then, now, not-so-much.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
So you're saying a defender (a person that plays the support role), should be able to knock out a tank (AKA meatshield)? Yeah, cause that makes sense. Sounds like a very balanced game you have going on in your head. I'm all for a bit of balancing, and if the defender in question has a better build and player than the tank, the fender should be able to win--but not to the point where it doesn't matter which AT you're playing. Rock getting the #$#@ kicked out of it by scissors is dumb.
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That said, having certain builds that can own everything in sight *cough*perma dom*cough* is ridiculous. To continue on with my rock-paper-scissors analogy, bringing lava to the table in a roshambo game ruins the fun.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I've never seen a 400 pt fossilize myself (even slotted for damage, I don't see it being more than 200-300), but again, there is a reason defenders are called squishies. You know going into the build that damage/resistance is minimal. I don't see why you expect that to change JUST for pvp.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Yes, bringing break frees was part of the strategy to defeat that problem, but the problem is, sometimes (with the way people could stack that stuff to high heaven) it just didn't help. However, I don't agree with the extent that they nerfed mezzes. Now it's basically pointless to bring a mezzer to a fight.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Bringing Break Frees and learning to manage them properly was hard, amirite? (Actually don't answer that, because the people that said "ZOMG YES" are the ones that got us I13.) That's funny, it seems as though enough people expected that to change for PvP that Defenders got 40% base resistance just for showing up. |
And yeah, I can agree with raising the base resist to even out the playing field a bit. I believe I've already said that in an earlier post. But I also said, it shouldn't get to the point where it doesn't matter what AT you play because people cry and want every AT to be exactly the same in pvp.
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The solution, if you were dueling or in a 2v2 or something, was to kill them before they could stack enough mezzes to shut you down; or in a team match, have a good Emp/Therm/Kin/whatever to keep mez protection on you. Was it tough? Yes. Getting good at it was part of the fun, but apparently some people just wanted everything handed to them (yay, entitlement) so we got what we have now.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Yes, bringing break frees was part of the strategy to defeat that problem, but the problem is, sometimes (with the way people could stack that stuff to high heaven) it just didn't help. However, I don't agree with the extent that they nerfed mezzes. Now it's basically pointless to bring a mezzer to a fight.
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Mezzes? You've got to be kidding me. I much prefer the old mez system over the new one, and I didn't even think the old one was that good. Before, you could at least do something when you got tagged by a mez. These days you get tagged, your offensive toggles drop (gogo Rad and Storm), you say "I'm the spike target," and you're dead before the mez wears off because there's nothing you nor your teammates can do about it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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You don't like to read the whole post, do you? I said I DISAGREE WITH THE EXTENT THEY NERFED IT.|
Originally Posted by macskull
The solution, if you were dueling or in a 2v2 or something, was to kill them before they could stack enough mezzes to shut you down; or in a team match, have a good Emp/Therm/Kin/whatever to keep mez protection on you. Was it tough? Yes. Getting good at it was part of the fun, but apparently some people just wanted everything handed to them (yay, entitlement) so we got what we have now.
Mezzes? You've got to be kidding me. I much prefer the old mez system over the new one, and I didn't even think the old one was that good. Before, you could at least do something when you got tagged by a mez. These days you get tagged, your offensive toggles drop (gogo Rad and Storm), you say "I'm the spike target," and you're dead before the mez wears off because there's nothing you nor your teammates can do about it. |
Yes, in the old days, it was a challenge. A challenge that could be overcome, sure. Assuming you could get up off the ground and smack the person outta the air.
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Considering your reg date. I don't even think you were around. You seem like the type that would read the forums from all the people complaining and not get into the zones/arena at all.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
You don't like to read the whole post, do you? I said I DISAGREE WITH THE EXTENT THEY NERFED IT.
Yes, in the old days, it was a challenge. A challenge that could be overcome, sure. Assuming you could get up off the ground and smack the person outta the air. |
All the builds you are claiming were superior to all (lol perma-dom killing everything) don't even work out in the old system. There were a few exceptions such as m3z rolling people up, but most blasters could destroy a dom in a quick volley if they were skilled enough to press like 7 buttons.
I don't get your reasoning.
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forum reg date is not the same as you start playing
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Originally Posted by _Lith_
Considering your reg date. I don't even think you were around. You seem like the type that would read the forums from all the people complaining and not get into the zones/arena at all.
All the builds you are claiming were superior to all (lol perma-dom killing everything) don't even work out in the old system. There were a few exceptions such as m3z rolling people up, but most blasters could destroy a dom in a quick volley if they were skilled enough to press like 7 buttons. I don't get your reasoning. |
Yeah, but people saying "this build was unbeatable" more likely than not didn't invest the time in figuring out how to counter that build. I mean, yeah, there were some really good builds (Ice/Rad and Rad/Psi come to mind), but someone could beat them if they were better than you.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Obviously, but the fact that he's making up things combined with the reg date gives me that idea.|
Originally Posted by Terror1
forum reg date is not the same as you start playing
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I didn't find the forums for a year and a half almost, but I don't go around saying perma doms defeated everything in zones either.
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Well EXCUSE me for not bothering to immediately register so I could troll around on the forums arguing with people 66 months ago when I created my account. I guess I had better stuff to do. Like play the game.|
Originally Posted by _Lith_
Considering your reg date. I don't even think you were around. You seem like the type that would read the forums from all the people complaining and not get into the zones/arena at all.
All the builds you are claiming were superior to all (lol perma-dom killing everything) don't even work out in the old system. There were a few exceptions such as m3z rolling people up, but most blasters could destroy a dom in a quick volley if they were skilled enough to press like 7 buttons. I don't get your reasoning. |
But returning to the original discussion, your theory assumes that the character in question has the DPS of a blaster and either A. Comes upon the enemy unawares or B. It's a duel. I dunno what server YOU played on, but ganking perma doms were all to common for me.
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lolgankingpermadoms.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Well EXCUSE me for not bothering to immediately register so I could troll around on the forums arguing with people 66 months ago when I created my account. I guess I had better stuff to do. Like play the game.
But returning to the original discussion, your theory assumes that the character in question has the DPS of a blaster and either A. Comes upon the enemy unawares or B. It's a duel. I dunno what server YOU played on, but ganking perma doms were all to common for me. |
doms were pretty much fully invalidated by not being a retard and popping 2 breakfrees before engaging, if you built ANYTHING right, it was gonna be able to wrek a permadom. but everyone is this game is a retard. gg son.
also, as to your reg date.... who are you? were you ever on test? ever fight in the ladder? srsly kid, stop pretending you're good. i13+ doesn't count.
Killing ganking perma dom baddos was about the only reason I would ever load a hero pre i12. There was maybe 4 doms worth sweating in zones across all severs. The rest if you popped a couple break frees they would mostly stay in their bases and whine about how op heroes were.
If you were consistently getting rolled by random doms it was not because they were op, its because you were bad. If there were no forum purges you could go back and read every time someone came in the pvp sections whining about some dom rolling. Then they would get told to bring some bfs and learn to use them. They in turn would reply they shouldn't have to. In return we got the crap random mez system we have now because so many people couldn't get 2 brain cells to fire at once so they could use inspirations. Thanks Mr Bad PvP Guy, you are a real man of genius.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Infinity. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Well EXCUSE me for not bothering to immediately register so I could troll around on the forums arguing with people 66 months ago when I created my account. I guess I had better stuff to do. Like play the game.
But returning to the original discussion, your theory assumes that the character in question has the DPS of a blaster and either A. Comes upon the enemy unawares or B. It's a duel. I dunno what server YOU played on, but ganking perma doms were all to common for me. |
And I would fight them on my storm dark, spines/regen, and Nrg/Nrg.
Like others have said, it basically came down to using breakfrees. And I was worse then than I am now.
*sigh* I should have known better to try having a mature discussion. It always turns into attacking a persons character, and you types ignore any valid points I put forth. This is the reason I don't bother with forums. Go ahead and pat yourselves on the back, for ganging up on the new poster.
FYI: Never said I was a good pvp'er. I kill some and lose some, but people like you are the reason I limit my visits to pvp zones.
Obviously you all think that bringing break frees is the end all argument to beat Doms. (I don't really see how we got off track of the original discussion, but I'll roll with it.) It's a valid tactic. I don't have a problem with that. However, it's a tactic I personally find dishonorable. You guys go ahead and spam inspirations, I'd rather let the better build/player win the fight--sans inspirations, unless I see that they're eating them up.
Oh, and black? Calling others "kid", says something about yourself. The way you type, I wonder what age *you* are.
Oh look, you all gave me negative karma. Way to go. Very mature little trollers.
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if you lose more than you win, maybe you should shut up and learn from those that win more than they lose. or does that learning thing does not compute well?|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
*sigh* I should have known better to try having a mature discussion. It always turns into attacking a persons character, and you types ignore any valid points I put forth. This is the reason I don't bother with forums. Go ahead and pat yourselves on the back, for ganging up on the new poster.
FYI: Never said I was a good pvp'er. I kill some and lose some, but people like you are the reason I limit my visits to pvp zones. Obviously you all think that bringing break frees is the end all argument to beat Doms. (I don't really see how we got off track of the original discussion, but I'll roll with it.) It's a valid tactic. I don't have a problem with that. However, it's a tactic I personally find dishonorable. You guys go ahead and spam inspirations, I'd rather let the better build/player win the fight--sans inspirations, unless I see that they're eating them up. Oh, and black? Calling others "kid", says something about yourself. The way you type, I wonder what age *you* are. |
let me try to phrase this nicely...
turn around. take down your portrait of bruce lee.
close your mouth. it's the first step in keeping the drool from hitting the keyboard.
sit down. playing while standing is not kosher.
and read up a little before you post again.
seriously, baddo, you have issues with inspirations, that just show that, well, you're at the bottom of the food chain, and thus should not be listened to.
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No INSPS? You might as well add no IOs either. I find them very dishonorable with their GLOBAL BONUSES. Just use SOs plz. I mean.....this game was meant to be played with SOs anyway amirite?!?!?!?!|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Oh look, you all gave me negative karma. Way to go. Very mature little trollers.
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Boo to you and your IO setting dishonorable PvP Style! I want a fair fight. SO vs SO!
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I get that i13 is a mixed bag of new problems and some improvements. The notion of being a "supporter" of it doesn't apply, it's the hand we're dealt and it's been around long enough now for people to have gotten over the trauma of change.
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Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
You fall into the category of i13 supporters who just don't get it.
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I dont usually comment on these boards but this tru wirror thing is stupid to say the least. No inspirations? lol. Honor in a video game? LOL. Seriously stop making up stupid rules and start playing by the ones the game allows.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
*sigh* I should have known better to try having a mature discussion. It always turns into attacking a persons character, and you types ignore any valid points I put forth. This is the reason I don't bother with forums. Go ahead and pat yourselves on the back, for ganging up on the new poster.
FYI: Never said I was a good pvp'er. I kill some and lose some, but people like you are the reason I limit my visits to pvp zones. Obviously you all think that bringing break frees is the end all argument to beat Doms. (I don't really see how we got off track of the original discussion, but I'll roll with it.) It's a valid tactic. I don't have a problem with that. However, it's a tactic I personally find dishonorable. You guys go ahead and spam inspirations, I'd rather let the better build/player win the fight--sans inspirations, unless I see that they're eating them up. Oh, and black? Calling others "kid", says something about yourself. The way you type, I wonder what age *you* are. |
It's not Bruce Lee, genius. Try looking at it. I know, it's uncomfortable pulling your head out of your butt. You see those things the figure is holding? They're called swords.
I don't lose any more than I win. You just want to think that to feel that old thing called self gratification.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Lucky. I respect yours. I'm not making up rules, I'm just playing as I prefer. I believe I'm entitled to do so. I know lots of people check their honor/morality at the door when they can be anonymous. I don't.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
I dont usually comment on these boards but this tru wirror thing is stupid to say the least. No inspirations? lol. Honor in a video game? LOL. Seriously stop making up stupid rules and start playing by the ones the game allows.
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Where "numbers" come into it or any of the other stuff (doms???) people are bringing up, I don't know.